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Chicago Wolves Discussion - Part VI

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12-08-2012, 08:05 PM
  #226
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It might not be bad for players to have setback early in their careers, it increase their ability to deal with adversity when they are in the NHL, even that is not the ideal way to develop players.
I don't think playing for a losing team with a horrible coach counts as adversity or is a good way to develop. Otherwise Columbus and Edmonton would be cup winners by now. Columbus especially has ruined and stunted the development of some pretty damn good prospects.

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12-08-2012, 08:11 PM
  #227
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Decent period for Wolves. Wolves are snake bit right now - had some good chances but no finish.

Beach made a hell of a shot.

Kassian giving it a full go and maybe a little unlucky not to have scored.

The wolves special teams remain disgusting. Agree that Ebbett is an important reason for this. Also Friesen is little more than pylon. Has a pitifully small area of coverage with the points being wide open all the time. Could say the same for Ebbett.

Schroeder made a couple plays but there is no consistency to his efforts. Also he missed Kassian on a good two on one opportunity. These are plays Schroeder has to make if he be considered for the Canucks. To me Schroeder has not improved at all this year. In fact badly plateauing at this level. Might have topped out early and now has little upside.

Archibald continues to get chances and that is encouraging

Would not give up on Rodin. Looks like a player that needs talent around him and with it he can do something. If you look at Tatar he is playing with some real skill in Andersson and especially Nyquist (who may be star material). Put Rodin in that position and he might look very good. Don't Rodin can anchor a line but could relly complement good players

Haydar should be cut - totally defines soft. You wonder how he ever got so many points. Maybe a result of the AHL actually having some half decent talent this year.

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12-08-2012, 08:17 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by orcatown View Post
Schroeder made a couple plays but there is no consistency to his efforts. Also he missed Kassian on a good two on one opportunity. These are plays Schroeder has to make if he be considered for the Canucks. To me Schroeder has not improved at all this year. In fact badly plateauing at this level. Might have topped out early and now has little upside.
Completely disagree. He's still leading the Wolves in goals and is the same draft year as Kassian so should be evaluated by similar criteria. Led the Wolves in points in November. IMO they would both be better off if they were playing together, they have been the most productive forwards with Sterling.

Edit: Hunt just saved Friesen's ass after he turned the puck over.

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12-08-2012, 08:20 PM
  #229
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And Haydar scores his first goal of the season

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12-08-2012, 08:20 PM
  #230
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Ebbett scores on a PP and it's tied at 1-1.

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12-08-2012, 08:21 PM
  #231
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Got the Rockford broadcast who said Haydar scored - Actually Ebbett

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12-08-2012, 08:22 PM
  #232
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Miller gets beat up by Andrew Shaw. Pathetic. Shaw is like 2-3 inches shorter and 10-15lbs lighter.

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12-08-2012, 08:22 PM
  #233
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Nice little scrap between Shaw and Miller

Shaw won

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12-08-2012, 08:32 PM
  #234
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Kassian is having a strong games. Showing some outstanding speed on some of the rushes

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12-08-2012, 08:33 PM
  #235
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killing me that there's no stream of this

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12-08-2012, 08:34 PM
  #236
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killing me that there's no stream of this
Same.

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12-08-2012, 08:35 PM
  #237
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Rockford not having a very good game and Wolves still can't get more than 1 goal, not a good sign. Some players having good games but as a team still crap.

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12-08-2012, 08:39 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Completely disagree. He's still leading the Wolves in goals and is the same draft year as Kassian so should be evaluated by similar criteria. Led the Wolves in points in November. IMO they would both be better off if they were playing together, they have been the most productive forwards with Sterling.

Edit: Hunt just saved Friesen's ass after he turned the puck over.
Two players who are complete different sizes and play a totally different game shouldn't be judged with the same criteria, thats nonsense.

While i agree with your whole point, that Schroeder isn't doing too bad, saying that Schroeder can have a mediocre points season like kassian give schroeder any chance to make the nhl is CRAZY. Kassian is an nhl player and has already made the nhl and has already proved to have the size and skill to play in the nhl, which is why our gm didn't send him down (not even in the playoffs) - there is alot more than points. and size has alot to do with it

Small perimeter centers need to put up points, its the only thing he brings to the table. If this wasn't true, tambellini would still be on our team ahead of the grinders who put up way less points. you need to produce like Ennis

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12-08-2012, 08:42 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by pseudonymous01 View Post
Two players who are complete different sizes and play a totally different game shouldn't be judged with the same criteria, thats nonsense.

While i agree with your whole point, that Schroeder isn't doing too bad, saying that Schroeder can have a mediocre points season like kassian give schroeder any chance to make the nhl is CRAZY. Kassian is an nhl player and has already made the nhl and has already proved to have the size and skill to play in the nhl, which is why our gm didn't send him down (not even in the playoffs) - there is alot more than points. and size has alot to do with it
I don't think that was my point. But Schroeder also hasn't gotten the same kind of opportunity as Kassian due to Ebbett being ahead of him for some inexplicable reason.

I know it doesn't mean much, but Schroeder has 11 ES points with only 1 PP point. That makes him tied with guys like Tatar and Nyquist in ES production.

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12-08-2012, 08:46 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I don't think that was my point. But Schroeder also hasn't gotten the same kind of opportunity as Kassian due to Ebbett being ahead of him for some inexplicable reason.

I know it doesn't mean much, but Schroeder has 11 ES points with only 1 PP point. That makes him tied with guys like Tatar and Nyquist in ES production.
your point wasn't that schroeder is doing pretty well? thats what i agree with.

i was just disagreeing with the same criteria part.

plus his points are okay. and not as bad as he was making them out to be.. but are they good enough to outweigh his lack of size and physicality. well who knows but if you look at all the players his size who made it, they were crazy good. hes scoring as well as the rest.. what does that mean, usually means the team will keep calling up the players who can handle the physicality ahead of them. coaches feel they can train a big bodied player to score more than they can give size to a small soft center

im cheering for him though and i do think hes pretty skilled. we'll see how if he puts up a few more pts when the team starts scorign more. hope so.

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12-08-2012, 08:49 PM
  #241
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plus his points are okay. and not as bad as he was making them out to be.. but are they good enough to outweigh his lack of size and physicality.
People were drooling over Tomas Tatar last night, he's 5'10" and 182lbs so barely bigger than Schroeder (5'9" and 179lbs). He only has more points because he's playing on one of the best PPs in the AHL, on a better team with better players.

Gustav Nyquist is 5'11" and 185lbs, also not huge. Again, as many points as Schroeder at ES and outpacing him because of the PP production.

So speaking strictly about ES, clearly Schroeder is able to keep up pretty well, no? Is that fair or is there a reason we can't look at his ES production and compare to others (serious question)?

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12-08-2012, 08:51 PM
  #242
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Finally a game I could watch some of, and now there's no stream...

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12-08-2012, 08:51 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
People were drooling over Tomas Tatar last night, he's 5'10" and 182lbs so barely bigger than Schroeder. He only has more points because he's playing on one of the best PPs in the AHL, on a better team with better players.

Gustav Nyquist is 5'11" and 185lbs, also not huge. Again, as many points as Schroeder at ES and outpacing him because of the PP production.

So speaking strictly about ES, clearly Schroeder is able to keep up pretty well, no?
The sites i just pulled up list him at 5'11. And Schroeder is on pace for another average ppg pace. Tatar could be near a point per game. You could argue playing time and PP time and all that but does it really matter? Think about it. If you gave lapierre 1st line minutes, he could get alot of points too but if he the one you want there? Schroeder isnt' getting the opportunities tatar is getting for a reason i believe

If you think another 48 point season for an undersized forward is nothing to worry about, well i'd think about that some more. He was just benched because the coach expected more. I guess you could put ALL blame on the coach for him not being the wolves number 1 center or being benched but i dont

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12-08-2012, 08:51 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I know it doesn't mean much, but Schroeder has 11 ES points with only 1 PP point. That makes him tied with guys like Tatar and Nyquist in ES production.
I would say it's a good sign Schroeder has produced 5 on 5.

However, at that size, he probably needs to be able to run a 2nd PP unit to play in the NHL. His skill and creativity with the man advantage just hasn't translated to the pro game like we probably would have hoped after seeing how skilled and dynamic he was as a teenager.

Schroeder may look comparable to Kassian right now at the AHL level but Kassian is much more likely to forge a successful career in the NHL IMO. Kassian can make his presence felt if he so chooses - Schroeder doesn't have that same ability to flip a switch and make an immediate impact.

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12-08-2012, 08:53 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
I would say it's a good sign Schroeder has produced 5 on 5.

However, at that size, he probably needs to be able to run a 2nd PP unit to play in the NHL. His skill and creativity with the man advantage just hasn't translated to the pro game like we probably would have hoped after seeing how skilled and dynamic he was as a teenager.

Schroeder may look comparable to Kassian right now at the AHL level but Kassian is much more likely to forge a successful career in the NHL IMO. Kassian can make his presence felt if he so chooses - Schroeder doesn't have that same ability to flip a switch and make an immediate impact.
Has anyone's production translated on the PP? Kassian has 3 points and he's on the 1st unit most of the time. The Wolves PP sucking has little to do with personnel, IMO.

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The sites i just pulled up list him at 5'11. And Schroeder is on pace for another average ppg pace. Tatar could be near a point per game. You could argue playing time and PP time and all that but does it really matter? Think about it. If you gave lapierre 1st line minutes, he could get alot of points too but if he the one you want there? Schroeder isnt' getting the opportunities tatar is getting for a reason i believe

If you think another 48 point season for an undersized forward is nothing to worry about, well i'd think about that some more. He was just benched because the coach expected more. I guess you could put ALL blame on the coach for him not being the wolves number 1 center or being benched but i dont
If a player put up most of those points at ES, it would be pretty damn good actually. And that's been my point. Even if you say Schroeder sucks as a PP player (I don't agree), he's still keeping up at ES with players that are being drooler over.

AHL lists Tatar at 5'10". That's the most recent and accurate.

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12-08-2012, 08:56 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
People were drooling over Tomas Tatar last night, he's 5'10" and 182lbs so barely bigger than Schroeder (5'9" and 179lbs). He only has more points because he's playing on one of the best PPs in the AHL, on a better team with better players.

Gustav Nyquist is 5'11" and 185lbs, also not huge. Again, as many points as Schroeder at ES and outpacing him because of the PP production.

So speaking strictly about ES, clearly Schroeder is able to keep up pretty well, no? Is that fair or is there a reason we can't look at his ES production and compare to others (serious question)?
2 skilled, creative, dynamic forwards can sometimes make or break a PP. It's a good sign Schroeder has produced at even strength but you have to give Tatar and Nyquist some credit for the Griffins strong PP.

Schroeder has never really stood out to me as a guy that can carry a PP. Somewhat surprising considering his skillevel and vision are quite good.

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12-08-2012, 08:58 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
2 skilled, creative, dynamic forwards can sometimes make or break a PP. It's a good sign Schroeder has produced at even strength but you have to give Tatar and Nyquist some credit for the Griffins strong PP.

Schroeder has never really stood out to me as a guy that can carry a PP. Somewhat surprising considering his skillevel and vision are quite good.
I don't disagree with that. Then again, the fact that nobody has broken through on the PP, even a guy like Haydar who has thrived on the PP throughout his whole career makes me believe that it goes beyond the players. The setup of the PP, their breakouts, etc. are horrible.

When Sedins stopped producing on the PP at the end of last season, I don't think anyone would've argued they suddenly became horrible PP players, right?

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12-08-2012, 09:00 PM
  #248
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Has anyone's production translated on the PP? Kassian has 3 points and he's on the 1st unit most of the time. The Wolves PP sucking has little to do with personnel, IMO.



If a player put up most of those points at ES, it would be pretty damn good actually. And that's been my point. Even if you say Schroeder sucks as a PP player (I don't agree), he's still keeping up at ES.
I would say the personnel isn't helping the PP. It's rare to have a lethal PP without excellent point men and when I watch the Wolves there is usually a glaring lack of puck movement and high end puckskills from the backend. Not a big fan of the Wolves defense from the 3 or 4 times I've seen them this year.

Like I said, it's good Schroeder has produced at 5 on 5. It's just going to be tough for him to hold onto a permanent roster spot at the NHL level if he can't excel at centre on the 2nd PP unit.

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12-08-2012, 09:01 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Has anyone's production translated on the PP? Kassian has 3 points and he's on the 1st unit most of the time. The Wolves PP sucking has little to do with personnel, IMO.



If a player put up most of those points at ES, it would be pretty damn good actually. And that's been my point. Even if you say Schroeder sucks as a PP player (I don't agree), he's still keeping up at ES with players that are being drooler over.

AHL lists Tatar at 5'10". That's the most recent and accurate.
So you could look at it like hes doing his typical self and underperforming on the PP.. or you could look at it like, he's doing his typical PPG pace and the points are coming where they are by chance.

IMO, i believe even if schroeder starts to do a little better in his pp, he'll do a little worse in his 5 on 5... why? because he is a 48 point player right now. he hasn't earned the top line or top pp time yet.

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12-08-2012, 09:02 PM
  #250
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So you could look at it like hes doing his typical self and underperforming on the PP.. or you could look at it like, he's doing his typical PPG pace and the points are coming where they are by chance.

IMO, i believe even if schroeder starts to do a little better in his pp, he'll do a little worse in his 5 on 5... why? because he is a 48 point player right now. he hasn't earned the top line or top pp time yet.
I don't get that logic, but ok... Ebbett is playing worse but he has earned that top line and top pp time?

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