I'll just keep on with the train of thought that Schroeder's point production has more to do with the system he is stuck in & the players he has playing around him... mainly the lack of support from the back end.
Also for next time you don't have to be so rude(post last night). I expect that from the main boards, not from my own fan base.
But your qualification for dominate is strange. You will only accept dominating at both ES and PP. I've already provided a link that showed that as far as translating NHL output to the AHL, ES goal production is the most accurate stat.
Schroeder's current ES output should be considered dominating, afterall ignoring the Oilers players (Eberle, Hall, RNH, Schultz) he's in the Top 10 for ES scoring.
So from that we can either take the pessimistic view that he sucks on the PP or the optimistic one that he's just unlucky to be playing on a team that has had the worst PP in the league for 3 years running. After all, Hodgson couldn't do much with that PP either.
Your problem is that your proofs are circular and you ignore anything that is presented contrary to your opinion, no matter how solidly it's backed up.
What was his rank among ahl players last year at even strength?
What was his rank among ahl players last year at even strength?
I don't know and I don't feel like doing the research. I had to go through all the Top 60 players to figure out his current rank manually and I might've made a mistake even there, he might be Top 15 (but there's a lot of career AHLers on that list).
The thing is, scoring has gone down this year compared to 3 years ago when guys like Giroux and Ennis were in the league, not to mention guys from the past.
---
Ignoring that, you have guys in the AHL right now like Henrique that are putting up worse numbers than Schroeder but have proven to be solid NHL players. Mostly because they're playing on ****** teams.
I don't know and I don't feel like doing the research. I had to go through all the Top 60 players to figure out his current rank manually and I might've made a mistake even there, he might be Top 15 (but there's a lot of career AHLers on that list).
Well i ignore your current year stats because im confident that things will even out and things will go back to the very similar ppg pace (both at ES and PP) as last year, with maybe a very slight increase due to being in the league another full year
Thats a wait and see thing though.
And i dont predict that last year, he was anywhere near the top of anything in terms of production. Could be wrong, if you showed me he was top 15 in ES production throughout a year, sure, ill start considering his 45 point seasons are nothign to worry about
Ignoring that, you have guys in the AHL right now like Henrique that are putting up worse numbers than Schroeder but have proven to be solid NHL players. Mostly because they're playing on ****** teams.
You finding players doing worse than Schroeder doesn't build up schroeder
Only point i been trying to make is that schroeders numbers are less than spectacular for a player of his size and style. And it shouldnt be ignored
I think everybodys game translates differently. IMO, guys like schroeder need to produce. Its the reason why tambellini didn't stick on any ahl team despite his skill
henriques style and game translate much better, he doesn't need to rely on putting up numbers. neither does kassian. those guys can make the nhl with what they have and the offense can come
Last edited by pseudonymous01: 12-09-2012 at 06:09 PM.
Schroeder in 21GP: 7G, 5A (2009 draft, 90 birth year)
Eberle in 22GP: 11G, 7A (2008 draft, 90 birth year)
Niederreiter in 23GP: 8G, 4A (2010 draft, 92 birth year)
Holland in 22GP: 7G, 7A (2009 draft, 91 birth year)
Kadri in 22GP: 5G, 9A (might be 8A, too lazy to doublecheck) (2009 draft, 90 birth year)
Tatar in 22GP: 6G, 6A (2009 draft, 90 birth year)
Nyquist in 22GP: 4G, 7A (2008 draft, 89 birth year)
Ben Smith in 25GP: 5G, 8A (2008 draft, 88 birth year)
As for last year, Schroeder was tied for 2nd on his own team with Mancari and 2 points behind Haydar (or the other way around, maybe tied with Haydar and behind Mancari). Don't know where he ranked in the league.
You just pulled a bunch of random prospects and showing me their production
Want me to mention it again. For a player of his style and size, he needs to produce.
This is a quarter of the season, are you going to tell me that you think kadri or a few other of those players are going to end with that PPG pace? Do you honestly think schroeder will end with the same pace as kadri?
Kadri will produce near a point per game, thats why hes a highly touted prospect. and will get nhl looks
same goes with eberle
and prob same goes for most of them
this is silly.
you are showing me numbers from a few prospects who aren't doing as well as they will end with but have proven their numbers before
so are you trying to prove to me that schroeder is just off to a lousy start and should end up with the same ppg pace as them?
lets say ebbett and schroeder had the same production, do you think schroeder is doing fine because hes on pace with ebbett who is a typically a point per game guy? that makes 0 sense whatsoever. ebbett has shown time and time again hes an elite player at that level and will get back to that. schroeder is doing what he does every year
Im not going to sit here and debate this more, you guys want proof of everything and somethings can't be proven. In my mind , its obvious who the better player was and who was quicker to become nhl compatible and that was hodgson. You think thats wrong. I guess the canucks management, moose coach, scouts, and the many gms around the league who would have chosen hodgson well before schroeder were wrong.
In my mind, hodgson would have went on to increase his point totals by a significant amount. I think he would have been a point per game player the next year. And its not surprising to see him over a point per game this year in the ahl. when he went down with an injury, foligno stopped producing
You guys can argue all you want but this comes down to opinion and ive watched almost all the wolves games this year and hes hardly an improved offensive player this year. Hes the exact same offensive player IMO, hes rounded out some other areas but to be a player in the nhl at his size and style takes alot more than passable numbers in his third year. And i dont even think next year he'll be much improved either. But hey, if you want to cling onto the hope that if he was on another team , he owuld be lighting it up. go ahead.
agree to disagree.
his point totals are something that shouldn't be ignored. thats the only point ive been trying to make. its funny that nobody else thinks hes nhl ready and hes even being benched but the fans think any criticism i give him is nonsense
schroeder is not as good as hodgson or he'd be in the nhl. hodgson is basically pegged as a teams #1-#2 center and they gave up a power forward prospect who people drool over to get him. he might be one day (unlikely though) but doesn't change the fact his numbers are not where they should be and a good part of that has to do with him and maybe a little due to his team but trying to steer all blame away from him is crazy
how about we go through the enormous list of 5'9 players and look at the numbers they put up previous to the nhl? And then tell me his numbers should be completely ignored and its not going to be an uphill battle for him
Also keep in mind when comparing the two, one is a year older and a year farther in their development.
You just pulled a bunch of random prospects and showing me their production
Want me to mention it again. For a player of his style and size, he needs to produce.
This is a quarter of the season, are you going to tell me that you think kadri or a few other of those players are going to end with that PPG pace? Do you honestly think schroeder will end with the same pace as kadri?
Kadri will produce near a point per game, thats why hes a highly touted prospect. and will get nhl looks
same goes with eberle
and prob same goes for most of them
this is silly.
you are showing me numbers from a few prospects who aren't doing as well as they will end with but have proven their numbers before
so are you trying to prove to me that schroeder is just off to a lousy start and should end up with the same ppg pace as them?
Do you even understand what even strength production is? I'm showing you their even strength production. No **** they will end up at PPG, because of PP points! That's obvious.
What I'm showing you is the effect of playing on a team with a good PP. No prospect in the world produces PPG at ES, except for maybe Giroux when he was in the AHL — they get at least half of their points, sometimes more on the PP.
schroeder is going to spend this entire season in the ahl, lockout or not
why? his numbers and game aren't up to par.
when he starts producing what he needs to, he will get looks in the nhl
Is that why Hodgson was brought up to play in the NHL after posting similar numbers? I will also add Schreoder has been a better defensive player.
I don't know what is going to happen now with the lockout, so I won't take a guess, but I can say i am fairly certain, that if we had a full season Schreoder would have started the season as the teams #3C just like Hodgson before him.
Do you even understand what even strength production is? I'm showing you their even strength production. No **** they will end up at PPG, because of PP points! That's obvious.
What I'm showing you is the effect of playing on a team with a good PP.
Oh sorry missed the ES mention.
Lets sit here and think about this for a second.
You have Jeff Tambellini and then you have Adam Henrique or Higgins or Tatar. They produce the exact same amount. Who do you take? Do you take the guy who is 6 foot and isnt' afraid to goto the net or do you take the perimeter center who doesn't have any edge to his game, isnt' capable of playing on the PP in your mind, etc
Schroeder has to produce!!!! Produce more than average, produce more than his 6 foot counterparts who aren't afraid to goto the net
Last edited by pseudonymous01: 12-09-2012 at 06:28 PM.
schroeder is going to spend this entire season in the ahl, lockout or not
why? his numbers and game aren't up to par.
when he starts producing what he needs to, he will get looks in the nhl
He we will get a look this year if there is one. The Canucks management has to know what he can do at NHL level, how close he is or whether to begin the process writing him off.
Is that why Hodgson was brought up to play in the NHL after posting similar numbers? I will also add Schreoder has been a better defensive player.
I don't know what is going to happen now with the lockout, so I won't take a guess, but I can say i am fairly certain, that if we had a full season Schreoder would have started the season as the teams #3C just like Hodgson before him.
There numbers were not similar. 17 goals in 52 games isn't 10 goals in 62 games or whatever. One player adapted very quickly, one didn't. Which is why he was brought up. Which is why schroeder continues to be in the ahl and will continue to be for another while
Schroeder is NOT Hodgson. Pedigree has alot to do with people given leniency. Schroeder doesn't have this top 10 pick skill. Its as simple as that. If schroeder was a top 10 pick and had world class vision. Then okay his numbers wouldn't look so bad.
But he is a small 5'9 perimeter player who needs to outproduce his weaknesses
There numbers were not similar. 17 goals in 52 games isn't 10 goals in 62 games or whatever. One player adapted very quickly, one didn't. Which is why he was brought up. Which is why schroeder continues to be in the ahl and will continue to be for another while
Again you are cherry picking stats.
Schreoder is a pass first player, hence comparing the two like we have is comparing their points, where one was putting up a .55 ppg and the other .57ppg. Those seem pretty close to me.
Schreoder is a pass first player, hence comparing the two like we have is comparing their points, where one was putting up a .55 ppg and the other .57ppg. Those seem pretty close to me.
Why are we comparing their 10-11 seasons when one was drafted a year earlier? Should be 10-11 vs 11-12. The difference in points is in favour of Schroeder, the difference in goals is like 2.5 goals for Hodgson.
Schreoder is a pass first player, hence comparing the two like we have is comparing their points, where one was putting up a .55 ppg and the other .57ppg. Those seem pretty close to me.
Why are we comparing their 10-11 seasons when one was drafted a year earlier? Should be 10-11 vs 11-12. The difference in points is in favour of Schroeder, the difference in goals is like 2.5 goals for Hodgson.
again, read the rest of my post.
if you think comparing numbers makes schroeder look like hes doing well, it does not.
kassian has the same numbers as schroeder, does that mean schroeder will make the team. no.
one player is there to put up points. and thats what they bring. that player is undersized and HAS to bring that in spades.
again, im requesting you guys give me a list of 5'9 players who had good nhl careers and didn't put up way more impressive numbrs than schroeder. These players NEED to make up for their shortcomings. !!!
Again you guys are totally right. His numbers are exactly where he wants them to be, they should definitely translate into the nhl.
45 points in the ahl for a 5'9 undersized perimeter player is not a worry. Im the sure GM and coaches are happy with his production.
Its definitely common for players who bring what he does to play in the NHL without previously tacking the ahl with ease
*sigh*
I feel like no matter what the stats are of the player, you could find something to cling onto to explain why things are still good and why he should still be good if he makes the nhl. lets say his points were 25, you'd argue that his corsi stats or whatever are superb. you can always show stats to give some hope but in the end, hes underperforming and it only takes watching the games to know this
Find somebody else to jump on.
Last edited by pseudonymous01: 12-09-2012 at 06:43 PM.
Again you guys are totally right. His numbers are exactly where he wants them to be, they should definitely translate into the nhl.
45 points in the ahl for a 5'9 undersized perimeter player is not a worry. Im the sure GM and coaches are happy with his production.
Its definitely common for players who bring what he does to play in the NHL
*sigh*
Find somebody else to jump on.
He has 10 points in 13 games at even strength since the start of November. Kassian has 5 in 12. He's outproducing everybody on the team by a huge margin. You continue to focus on his lack of production on the PP as a sign that he's not playing well enough but if he gets a call up, AV will want to see him play well at ES primarily not on the PP. That's the problem with guys like Tambellini and Haydar — they can't handle the ES play and make their killing on the PP, even at the AHL level. Schroeder has been the exact opposite.
Why do you believe that PP play at the AHL level is an important sign of success at the NHL level? He might not even get PP time until he earns it so the focus should be on what he can accomplish at ES.
He has 10 points in 13 games at even strength since the start of November. Kassian has 5 in 12. He's outproducing everybody on the team by a huge margin. You continue to focus on his lack of production on the PP as a sign that he's not playing well enough but if he gets a call up, AV will want to see him play well at ES primarily not on the PP. That's the problem with guys like Tambellini and Haydar — they can't handle the ES play and make their killing on the PP, even at the AHL level. Schroeder has been the exact opposite.
Why do you believe that PP play at the AHL level is an important sign of success at the NHL level? He might not even get PP time until he earns it so the focus should be on what he can accomplish at ES.
Youre talking about one month of good play. By the end of the year, i think by the end of the season, his ES PPG pace will be similar to last year. Thats why. With a small increase due to being in the league another year. End of that
Youre talking about one month of good play. By the end of the year, i think by the end of the season, his ES PPG pace will be similar to last year. Thats why. With a small increase due to being in the league another year. End of that
So basically your argument is that he sucks because you know he sucks? Well, this was fun. Let's ignore the trends in his play or the fact that he's outperforming everyone else on the team. He sucks so he must suck. Brilliant logic. If you don't see how ****ed up what you just said is then there's really no point in continuing this.
He has 10 points in 13 games at even strength since the start of November. Kassian has 5 in 12. He's outproducing everybody on the team by a huge margin. You continue to focus on his lack of production on the PP as a sign that he's not playing well enough but if he gets a call up, AV will want to see him play well at ES primarily not on the PP. That's the problem with guys like Tambellini and Haydar — they can't handle the ES play and make their killing on the PP, even at the AHL level. Schroeder has been the exact opposite.
Why do you believe that PP play at the AHL level is an important sign of success at the NHL level? He might not even get PP time until he earns it so the focus should be on what he can accomplish at ES.
This this this, a thousand times this... oh wait I think it has been said a thousand times.
Well lets just wait until the end of the season , ill bump this and we'll see how CRAZY schroeders ES production is , deal?
20 games in and all of a sudden hes a stud during ES
Was last year too since he finished tied for 2nd on his team... and was absolutely dominant in the last 35 games or so. But it's ok, you can ignore that just like you do everything else in this thread that goes against what you believe.
