HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Jagr said his biggest NHL goal was PIT-NJD game 6 OT goal

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-01-2012, 06:30 PM
  #26
vadim sharifijanov
Registered User
 
vadim sharifijanov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,362
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoninNYR View Post
The most upsetting thing for me in this whole lockout is I probably will never see Jagr live again. I went to the thanksgiving weekend game @msg last year but he was hurt
my buddy is working in the czech republic this year and kladno is playing his local team this week. tickets are also apparently very cheap by north american standards. i'm ridiculously jealous.

vadim sharifijanov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2012, 06:51 PM
  #27
clefty
What?
 
clefty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Fujairah
Posts: 15,270
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by livewell68 View Post
If Bure had his jersey retired in Vancouver and Roy his in Montreal then it's only fair Jagr has his retired in Pittsburgh.

It's not only stats, it's the fact that he brought fans to the arena and out of their seats on consistent basis, he was as exciting a player as they came and outside of his one season (2000-01) where he still won the Art Ross mind you, he was a great player who gave his all for the city.

1 bad year (where he was still a dynamite player) should not spoil 10 great years he had in Pittsburgh.

Some upset Penguins fans act like he killed their mothers or something. The NHL is a business and Jagr made a business decision when he left Pittsburgh.

The Penguins felt that if they were going to resign Jagr for a minimum of 10 million, there was no way they could have kept Lang, Straka and Kovalev.

If Penguins fans were expecting Jagr to sign for less than he deserved then they should also expect the same from Crosby.

He won 5 Art Ross trophies, 1 Hart, 2 Pearsons, 2 Stanley Cups and scored numerous "Big" goals for the Penguins. That team wouldn't even be in Pittsburgh if not for Jagr. He kept them competitive and exciting enough for Lemieux to come in and save them financially.
In the summer of this year and last, the Pens conducted an event commemorating the 20 year anniversary of both the '91 and '92 Cup winning teams. In 2011, everyone showed up except Jagr. This year, everyone showed up except Jagr and I think Ulf Samuelsson who had coaching commitments with his SEL team. Even Jiri Hrdina traveled from the Czech Republic to be there, and Scotty Bowman dragged his 80-year-old bones over despite his often frosty relationship with his players.

The reason? "I don't like golf". Yeah good one, Jags.

Jagr doesn't care about his Penguins legacy. If he doesn't, then why should anyone else? If they were to retire his jersey, I doubt he'd even bother to show up.

clefty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2012, 07:47 PM
  #28
Czech Your Math
Registered User
 
Czech Your Math's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: bohemia
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,626
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by clefty View Post
In the summer of this year and last, the Pens conducted an event commemorating the 20 year anniversary of both the '91 and '92 Cup winning teams. In 2011, everyone showed up except Jagr. This year, everyone showed up except Jagr and I think Ulf Samuelsson who had coaching commitments with his SEL team. Even Jiri Hrdina traveled from the Czech Republic to be there, and Scotty Bowman dragged his 80-year-old bones over despite his often frosty relationship with his players.

The reason? "I don't like golf". Yeah good one, Jags.

Jagr doesn't care about his Penguins legacy. If he doesn't, then why should anyone else? If they were to retire his jersey, I doubt he'd even bother to show up.
Are any other players from those Cup teams still playing hockey? Maybe he didn't want to travel around the world, when he had more important things to do (rest, train, team owner, etc.)?

He'll show up if they retire his jersey. He might not even require an appearance fee.

Czech Your Math is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2012, 07:54 PM
  #29
vadim sharifijanov
Registered User
 
vadim sharifijanov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,362
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by clefty View Post
In the summer of this year and last, the Pens conducted an event commemorating the 20 year anniversary of both the '91 and '92 Cup winning teams. In 2011, everyone showed up except Jagr. This year, everyone showed up except Jagr and I think Ulf Samuelsson who had coaching commitments with his SEL team. Even Jiri Hrdina traveled from the Czech Republic to be there, and Scotty Bowman dragged his 80-year-old bones over despite his often frosty relationship with his players.

The reason? "I don't like golf". Yeah good one, Jags.

Jagr doesn't care about his Penguins legacy. If he doesn't, then why should anyone else? If they were to retire his jersey, I doubt he'd even bother to show up.
as most of you probably know, there is basically the exact same debate with retiring bure's jersey in vancouver.

i see both sides. first and foremost, retiring a guy's number isn't for the organization, or for that guy. not even for that guy's teammates. it's for the fans. it's very divisive in vancouver between fans that still feel betrayed by the way he left, for whom it would be an insult to retire his number. the other side is people like me, who want that number up there in the rafters as a monument to our most cherished memories as canucks fans.

it's also possibly a moot point, as we're not totally certain bure would even show up to his own jersey retirement. and there's definitely not going to be a pavel bure night without him committing to being there. probably same with jagr, i imagine.

but my take is with a guy like those two, there are always going to be fans that can't let the past go. but as time goes on and wounds heal, there are going to be more and more fans on the side that either understand the guy's reason for wanting to leave, or at least accept it, or maybe just decide that it's more worth remembering the good times than staying angry or feeling hurt about the bad times.

vadim sharifijanov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2012, 08:04 PM
  #30
gordie
Registered User
 
gordie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,125
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Apparently keeping the franchise alive isn't good enough.
Part of the Pens late 1990's financial problems was Jagr and his contract (highest in the league) he never led the club to even a finals appearance and then he whined about wanting to leave. Hopefully his number will never be retired in the Consol Energy Center rafters. Goodbye and good riddance.

gordie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2012, 08:40 PM
  #31
jack mullet
@jackmullethockey
 
jack mullet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Baxter, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 483
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirinho View Post
time 5:10

what a game .. do you remember it?
yes i do, what a series, what a player. love seeing the "C" on Jagr. wish he never left for Washington, and really wish he never left for the KHL. in my mind, he is easily a top 10 player of all time. i fear he will never get all the credit he deserves

jack mullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2012, 08:41 PM
  #32
jack mullet
@jackmullethockey
 
jack mullet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Baxter, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 483
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gordie View Post
Part of the Pens late 1990's financial problems was Jagr and his contract (highest in the league) he never led the club to even a finals appearance and then he whined about wanting to leave. Hopefully his number will never be retired in the Consol Energy Center rafters. Goodbye and good riddance.
are you trying to blame the pens not going to the finals on Jagr?

jack mullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2012, 09:02 PM
  #33
livewell68
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,914
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jack mullet View Post
are you trying to blame the pens not going to the finals on Jagr?
Apparently so.

Jagr was supposed to have played in net, on all 3 defensive pairing lines and all 4 forward lines simultaneously.

Get real haters!!!

Even if Jagr had been Howe, Gretzky, Orr and Lemieux all wrapped into one, that late 90's Penguins was going nowhere.

In the late 90's, only Hasek meant as much to his team as Jagr did to the Penguins.

What Jagr did for the Rangers in 2005-06 is what he was doing on routine basis on those Lemieux-less Penguins teams. Largely on Jagr's strength, those Penguins actually vastly overachieved.

livewell68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2012, 10:10 PM
  #34
Burgs
Registered User
 
Burgs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: Germany
Posts: 5,841
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czech Your Math View Post
Are any other players from those Cup teams still playing hockey? Maybe he didn't want to travel around the world, when he had more important things to do (rest, train, team owner, etc.)?
Some of the others have non-playing careers these days, too. And Recchi was still playing at the first anniversary. Jagr has never cared for any of these events. He's been invited to Mario's annual charity golf tournament every summer since 2001 and never showed up once. Last time he even claimed he never got the letter. The Pens then had Zbynek Michalek personally deliver an invitation to him at the WHC. He still didn't show up. Last game ever at the Igloo, over 50 Pens alumni from five decades did a pre-game ceremony, including a 91 year old Jack Riley. Guess who didn't even bother to respond even though his KHL playoffs had already been over a month ago? Exactly. He simply doesn't give a crap so why should the club keep reaching out to him?

The only time Jagr mentions Pittsburgh (the "hell" where he was "dying alive" in the late 90s) is when he tries to start a free agent bidding war for himself. Last time he made up fairytales about how he'd play for league minimum and how his heart was in Pittsburgh, and then he turned around and signed with their biggest rival because they offered a million more. That's Jagr for you, always looking out for himself and never owning up to any stupid things he's ever said and done. His spoiled man-child act has gotten tired a decade ago.

This discussion starts every time some other team's fan wants to tell Penguins fans what to think of Jagr, and it never goes anywhere so this is the last I'll say. I have nothing against the man, he was a great player. He won Art Ross trophies playing with Jan Hrdina and Kip Miller, for God's sake. You can call him a lot of things but not a choker or an underachiever. That those late 90s teams didn't win a Cup wasn't his fault. Hard to win anything when you have no defense.

But I do have a problem with his childish, selfish, pouty character and his disrespect for the organization that bent over backwards to accomodate him and made him a superstar. When things looked bleak he skipped town, he trashed the city, he burned the bridges and never tried to make amends. For a franchise where only Mario Lemieux (for all he did) and a dead rookie (for what could have been) have their numbers retired it should be extremely hard to get this honor. I see nobody else worthy of it right now, and that happens to include Jagr. He is part of the team's ring of honor display, and that's enough.

Quote:
He'll show up if they retire his jersey. He might not even require an appearance fee.
Has he heard about the new casino yet?

Burgs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2012, 10:50 PM
  #35
Samsquanch
Creep
 
Samsquanch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: The Big Nickel
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,023
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
This was Jagr at his peak, unreal. He had just seperated himself from the rest of the pack in a way that we hadn't seen since Mario/Gretzky. This was one of those games that we as Canadians call "gutsy" because Jagr was suffering from a groin problem (or ribs, I can't remember) but either way it was a game he shouldn't have played. He ties the game, wins it in overtime against Brodeur (who has a surprisingly poor playoff overtime record) and then got 3 points for the win in Game 7. He was such a dominating force out there and in all honesty we haven't seen a player do that on the ice like Jagr since..............Jagr. That includes Ovechkin and Crosby. I'm sorry but neither had a year like 1999 Jagr.

I know the Pens had a lot of financial troubles but I really don't remember anything about the team moving to Kansas City if they lost this round. Mario still had to come and save the day in 1999 with part ownership either way so I don't think it would have mattered. The Penguins were broke at that time.
So true, he was such a pleasure to watch in his prime. With his strength and skill he made it look like he was playing with kids. And I agree that not even Crosby or Ovechkin have dominated the way Jagr did, although Ovechkin has come close. There was a lot more clutching and grabbing during Jagrs time, and the league had a lot more star power imo, which makes his dominance all that more impressive.

As a young child I cheered for Pittsburgh, and watching Jagr fly down the ice with his hair flapping behind his head are some of my most vivid NHL memories from early childhood. Mario is and always will be my idol, so it was hard at the time to understand how good Jaromir actually was. Mario's star always burned a little bit brighter. But looking back now I can realize something, and that is that the second most dominating performances Ive ever seen were Jagrs when he was in his prime


Last edited by Samsquanch: 12-01-2012 at 11:00 PM.
Samsquanch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 12:18 AM
  #36
Czech Your Math
Registered User
 
Czech Your Math's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: bohemia
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,626
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gordie View Post
Part of the Pens late 1990's financial problems was Jagr and his contract (highest in the league) he never led the club to even a finals appearance and then he whined about wanting to leave. Hopefully his number will never be retired in the Consol Energy Center rafters. Goodbye and good riddance.
It would seem paying... errr deferring... a similar amount to someone who wasn't even playing (Lemieux) would be more harmful. The amount of additional tickets (and concessions, merchandise, etc.) they sold, plus additional revenue from playoffs should justify paying the best player in the league... like he was the best player in the league.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burgs View Post
Jagr has never cared for any of these events. He's been invited to Mario's annual charity golf tournament every summer since 2001 and never showed up once. Last time he even claimed he never got the letter. The Pens then had Zbynek Michalek personally deliver an invitation to him at the WHC. He still didn't show up. Last game ever at the Igloo, over 50 Pens alumni from five decades did a pre-game ceremony, including a 91 year old Jack Riley. Guess who didn't even bother to respond even though his KHL playoffs had already been over a month ago? Exactly. He simply doesn't give a crap so why should the club keep reaching out to him?

The only time Jagr mentions Pittsburgh (the "hell" where he was "dying alive" in the late 90s) is when he tries to start a free agent bidding war for himself. Last time he made up fairytales about how he'd play for league minimum and how his heart was in Pittsburgh, and then he turned around and signed with their biggest rival because they offered a million more. That's Jagr for you, always looking out for himself and never owning up to any stupid things he's ever said and done. His spoiled man-child act has gotten tired a decade ago.

This discussion starts every time some other team's fan wants to tell Penguins fans what to think of Jagr, and it never goes anywhere so this is the last I'll say. I have nothing against the man, he was a great player. He won Art Ross trophies playing with Jan Hrdina and Kip Miller, for God's sake. You can call him a lot of things but not a choker or an underachiever. That those late 90s teams didn't win a Cup wasn't his fault. Hard to win anything when you have no defense.

But I do have a problem with his childish, selfish, pouty character and his disrespect for the organization that bent over backwards to accomodate him and made him a superstar. When things looked bleak he skipped town, he trashed the city, he burned the bridges and never tried to make amends. For a franchise where only Mario Lemieux (for all he did) and a dead rookie (for what could have been) have their numbers retired it should be extremely hard to get this honor. I see nobody else worthy of it right now, and that happens to include Jagr. He is part of the team's ring of honor display, and that's enough.
I'm not going to try to tell anyone how to feel, esp. Pens fans how to feel about Jagr. I think you're right, he just doesn't care for those big, "feel good" events. It's not like he's sipping lemonade on the porch up the street or something either.

It's just a relationship that went a bit sour in some ways, but was mostly great while it lasted. It's water under the bridge now. Jagr said some things he probably shouldn't have, out of frustration, and the Pens (Mario, media, fans) said some things that seem quite unfair as well. Maybe he could have done more to reach out to the fans in Pittsburgh during and after his tenure there, but I didn't see his words or actions as a big middle finger to the organization or city.

Perhaps if the Pens ownership and management hadn't made numerous bad trades and drafts, and driven the team into bankruptcy, then they don't part ways (at least on such bad terms). I thought the idea that Jagr was supposed to grovel at Mario's feet to play for league minimum, just because he made a remark a few years ago in Russia, was rather hilarious. If there's one thing that should have been learned long ago, it's that Jagr often says what's on his mind at that moment, in English as he understands it. His random remarks to reporters shouldn't be analyzed like a statement from the Kremlin during the cold war.

He's full of surprises, so whether he never comes back to the NHL due to the lockout... or plays a final year in Pittsburgh at some point, it won't be shocking.

Czech Your Math is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 05:09 AM
  #37
clefty
What?
 
clefty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Fujairah
Posts: 15,270
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czech Your Math View Post
Perhaps if the Pens ownership and management hadn't made numerous bad trades and drafts, and driven the team into bankruptcy, then they don't part ways (at least on such bad terms).
That's nonsense. 48 hours after the Penguins finished within three wins of a Cup appearance was when he made his final demand to be traded.

Quote:
But to Patrick's mind, the notion of trading Jagr didn't truly kick in until May 24, two days after the Penguins' season ended. After the team held a quick farewell gathering in its locker room at Southpointe, Patrick and Jagr stepped aside for a quick one-on-one meeting.

"He asked me, 'What's going on with me?' " Patrick recalled. "I said, 'I don't know. I have to sit down with the owners and see what our budget is and how we can keep everybody.' He said, 'No, no, you don't understand. I don't want to be here.' That was the first point that I knew something had to be done."
http://old.post-gazette.com/penguins...pens0712p3.asp

Jagr was traded for one reason. Jagr.

clefty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 09:02 AM
  #38
jack mullet
@jackmullethockey
 
jack mullet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Baxter, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 483
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samsquanch View Post
So true, he was such a pleasure to watch in his prime. With his strength and skill he made it look like he was playing with kids. And I agree that not even Crosby or Ovechkin have dominated the way Jagr did, although Ovechkin has come close. There was a lot more clutching and grabbing during Jagrs time, and the league had a lot more star power imo, which makes his dominance all that more impressive.
excellent points. 4 straight scoring titles, and the only reason he didnt win more was because Lemieux came back in 95-96, and 96-97 (Jagr also missed time due to injury that season)

if Jagr never left for the KHL, and if it were not for the past 2 lockouts, i really think he could have finished second all time in points.

jack mullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 09:27 AM
  #39
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 111,117
vCash: 500
If Lindros can come back to Philly on good terms, Jagr can do the same with Pittsburgh.


This game definitely wasn't as dramatic as 'if they lost they would have moved to Kansas City.' First off, I don't think KC was the in-relocation spot at the time. Although it was discussed, the thought was that if the Penguins were moving, it would be to Oregon. That was still up in the air no matter what, it had little to do with making payments. If they needed help, the league would have covered the bill, even if it was the difference.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 09:57 AM
  #40
jagrgodr
Registered User
 
jagrgodr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,515
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jack mullet View Post
excellent points. 4 straight scoring titles, and the only reason he didnt win more was because Lemieux came back in 95-96, and 96-97 (Jagr also missed time due to injury that season)

if Jagr never left for the KHL, and if it were not for the past 2 lockouts, i really think he could have finished second all time in points.
Yeah this is how i have always felt. If Jagr didn't leave for the KHL, along with missing almost 3 seasons do to the lockout, he could have easily taken the #2 in all time points. It still upsets me that the Rangers didn't have faith in him and decided on signing horrible deals with gomez, drury and wade redden. Those three terrible signings, along with a few others ones, are one of the main reasons i think jagr left the rangers and NHL.

He was really a beast (and still is) and i don't think he gets the respect he truly deserves as one of the best hockey players ever. I don't think people like giving a european that much respect, also.

jagrgodr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 11:00 AM
  #41
jack mullet
@jackmullethockey
 
jack mullet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Baxter, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 483
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jagrgodr View Post
I don't think people like giving a european that much respect, also.
i think this has alot to do with it. he dominated the league, with or without Mario on his team. i have no problem putting him in my top 10 of all time list.

jack mullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 11:03 AM
  #42
Doctor No
Mod Supervisor
Retired?
 
Doctor No's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 23,704
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jagrgodr View Post
I don't think people like giving a european that much respect, also.
That's a pretty antiquated notion.

Doctor No is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 11:41 AM
  #43
jagrgodr
Registered User
 
jagrgodr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,515
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
That's a pretty antiquated notion.
I don't think so. Gretzky even said he was the next one and people rarely talk about jagr's accomplishments and it seems they would rather brush him to the side. A lot of people have negative stereotypes towards european players

jagrgodr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 12:03 PM
  #44
Doctor No
Mod Supervisor
Retired?
 
Doctor No's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 23,704
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jagrgodr View Post
I don't think so. Gretzky even said he was the next one and people rarely talk about jagr's accomplishments and it seems they would rather brush him to the side. A lot of people have negative stereotypes towards european players
Well, obviously you don't think so - you wouldn't have said it otherwise.

And you're obviously a Jagr fan. Why isn't the cause of this perceived issue your bias?

(For what it's worth, I'm a huge Jagr fan.)

Doctor No is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 12:17 PM
  #45
DisgruntledGoat
Registered User
 
DisgruntledGoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,140
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jagrgodr View Post
I don't think so. Gretzky even said he was the next one and people rarely talk about jagr's accomplishments and it seems they would rather brush him to the side. A lot of people have negative stereotypes towards european players
Gretzky also said that about Crosby and Lindros. And he also said that Hemsky was the most talented player in the league, at one point. Really, the whole, 'Gretzky said. . .' argument for proving a player's worth doesn't hold a whole lot of water, considering 99 has never really said a bad thing about anyone.

Also, I feel like shouting, 'European bias!' has become a convenient way for (some) posters to avoid hearing valid criticisms about their favorite players. Jagr is a tremendous, amazing player but in the context of GOAT conversations, there are some flaws that should be looked at. For me, personally, he's not a top ten player. I'd still have him somewhere between 16 and 12, though. And it has nothing to do with where he was born.

DisgruntledGoat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 12:42 PM
  #46
Czech Your Math
Registered User
 
Czech Your Math's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: bohemia
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,626
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by clefty View Post
That's nonsense. 48 hours after the Penguins finished within three wins of a Cup appearance was when he made his final demand to be traded.

Jagr was traded for one reason. Jagr.
They couldn't really improve the team further. They basically had Jagr, Lemieux for as long as he could remain healthy (and not decide to retire again) and the KLS line. The youngest of those top 5 forwards was Kovalev, who turned 28 during the 2001 season. Forwards generally peak by 28. Their defensive corps was:

Hans Jonsson 28 (led their d-men with 22 points)
Laukkanen 31
Kasparaitis 28
Ference 22
Slegr 30
Boughner 30
Moran 28
Bergevin 35

Goalie had been a revolving door for years. In 2001 they platooned Aubin and Snow before riding the flavor of the month, 28 y/o Hedberg... who had 9 career NHL games entering the playoffs.

That isn't the makings of a Cup contender. It was a team on the verge of bankruptcy, who had a series of bad drafts/trades, with aging, but very good top 5 forwards, an aging and weak d-corps, and a continually shaky goaltending situation. If they paid Jagr what he was worth, they couldn't afford to improve the defense, or possibly even keep the KLS line together for long. I think this meant more of the same to Jagr: struggling to make the playoffs and no real chance at another Cup. He'd been there (for 11 seasons) and done that (from Cups to the current dilemma) and wanted a change. I doubt Mario blaming him publicly, after he played the ECF with essentially one arm, changed that for the better. Look how badly they collapsed after Jagr left. If not for the multiple #1 picks as a result of that collapse, they would likely have been mired in (at best) mediocrity for years. Jagr wanted to go to New York where they could afford to pay him and still try to build a strong team (this was pre-cap of course). Pittsburgh reminded him of his hometown in Czech, except much larger, an industrial city which became stale for him after 11 years. The team was spinning its wheels, despite the overachieving ECF run in 2001. The team's decline after 2001 may have been surprising to some, but I doubt it was to Jagr. Older teams get injured and without Jagr to steadily put up points and keep the team in contention, they "found their true level" as a team. He could have handled it better by not being public about his displeasure, but that wouldn't change the fact that the team was going nowhere. They just went nowhere a lot faster without Jagr... actually they went somewhere... right off the cliff as soon as he left.

Czech Your Math is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 01:10 PM
  #47
jagrgodr
Registered User
 
jagrgodr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,515
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czech Your Math View Post
They just went nowhere a lot faster without Jagr... actually they went somewhere... right off the cliff as soon as he left.
I couldn't have said it any better myself. When Jagr left it secured crosby and Malkin, the next generation of mario and jagr so i don't know see how there is so much hate towards jagr. If he would have stayed they would have NEVER had crosby or malkin. The same goes for the Capitals, no Jagr leaving, no Ovechkin and possibly backstrom.

jagrgodr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 01:29 PM
  #48
Mr. T
Registered User
 
Mr. T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,910
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
If Lindros can come back to Philly on good terms, Jagr can do the same with Pittsburgh.


This game definitely wasn't as dramatic as 'if they lost they would have moved to Kansas City.' First off, I don't think KC was the in-relocation spot at the time. Although it was discussed, the thought was that if the Penguins were moving, it would be to Oregon. That was still up in the air no matter what, it had little to do with making payments. If they needed help, the league would have covered the bill, even if it was the difference.
I was at that game and a large contingent of folks in attendance thought it might be the last game the Penguins ever played in Pittsburgh. I've never seen a more elated crowd after a win. Portland was definitely the alleged location at the time, not KC. My younger self was very pleased with my anti-Paul Allen "Think Different" sign I brought to the arena that night.


A-hole comments aside, Jagr's on ice accomplishments and the fact that he essentially was the team after Mario retired should make him a lock to have his number retired in Pittsburgh. I know he pissed off the Pens management (and fans) with that fiasco last summer, but I guarantee that attitudes will soften over time. In 2017 when he's retired and Pittsburgh is celebrating the 25th anniversary of the team's second Cup win and the team's 50th season, things will be different.

Mr. T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 01:40 PM
  #49
Doctor No
Mod Supervisor
Retired?
 
Doctor No's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 23,704
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jagrgodr View Post
I couldn't have said it any better myself. When Jagr left it secured crosby and Malkin, the next generation of mario and jagr so i don't know see how there is so much hate towards jagr. If he would have stayed they would have NEVER had crosby or malkin. The same goes for the Capitals, no Jagr leaving, no Ovechkin and possibly backstrom.
Wow - that's quite a stretch, giving credit to Jagr for the Penguins getting Crosby and Malkin, and for the Capitals getting Ovechkin.

If Wayne Gretzky had been playing for the Penguins in the early 1980s, they never would have gotten Lemieux, so I guess Gretzky gets credit for the Penguins getting Lemieux.

Doctor No is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 02:09 PM
  #50
livewell68
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,914
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Wow - that's quite a stretch, giving credit to Jagr for the Penguins getting Crosby and Malkin, and for the Capitals getting Ovechkin.

If Wayne Gretzky had been playing for the Penguins in the early 1980s, they never would have gotten Lemieux, so I guess Gretzky gets credit for the Penguins getting Lemieux.
It's not the same thing. The fact is Jagr actually did play for the Penguins and Capitals. He is either directly or indirectly responsible for the fate of both the Penguins and Capitals franchises.

The Penguins would have most likely been relocated if not for Jagr keeping them competitive.

Out of Crosby, Lemieux and Jagr, only Jagr has made the playoffs in every single season of his time there. That should say something about his talent.

Sure Lemieux was a special player and pretty much better at everything than Jagr is (although it's pretty close in every facet) but Jagr could carry teams the way Lemieux never could.

Lemieux was never able to take mediocre teams into the playoffs (he needed great teams) while Jagr basically carried teams all on his own.

Every single player in the top 10 has flaws.

Gretzky was not big, strong or fast.

Lemieux had his health issues and was a primadona in his early days.

Orr had his health issues.

So what if Jagr had his flaws, the thing is his strengths far outway his flaws to the point they elevate him to pretty much top 10 status.

He has the prime, peak, longevity, consistency, award and accomplishment count and numbers to back up this claim.

Jagr doesn't score that goal against the Blackhawks in 1992, the Penguins probably don't win that game and the Blackhawks ride their 12 game winning streak to a Stanley Cup.

In 2000-01 he was injured, mentally tired and fed up carrying a mediocre team without any support and the moment Mr. Le Magnifique returns, everyone expects Jagr to give up the C and suddenly he's no longer the best player in the world?

He could have handled it different his departure and his unwillingness to resign in Pittsburgh but it's not like the fans treated him like a welcome player.

He gave them 10 great years and they are willing to forget all those years and just remember the one bad year and boo him everytime he visited the city. It was shameful how they treated that team's second greatest player of all time.

To those that claim that he's not the clear cut second best player, Crosby has yet to do anything to surpass Jagr. Is it Crosby's 41 game stretch in 2010-11? Jagr had better stretches than that many time in Pittsburgh including 2000-01.

Give the guy the credit he deserves.

livewell68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:54 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.