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NHL Lockout XXXI: You're only as good as your last envelope.

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Old
12-16-2012, 02:36 PM
  #1
ThirdManIn
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NHL Lockout XXXI: You're only as good as your last envelope.

Continue.

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12-16-2012, 04:31 PM
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Krishna
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@barrie22

Oh, I know. Everyone knows that stalling is Fehr's main tactic. My post was if Kelly wasn't forced out by the PA since they obviously wanted to fight the NHL since a few of the big wigs in the PA took the whole losing in 2005 personally

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12-16-2012, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
@barrie22

Oh, I know. Everyone knows that stalling is Fehr's main tactic. My post was if Kelly wasn't forced out by the PA since they obviously wanted to fight the NHL since a few of the big wigs in the PA took the whole losing in 2005 personally
Ironically enough, they've set themselves up to lose this lockout even worse if the battle in the courts doesn't come down in their favour.

Best thing for them to do now is to get back to the table and negotiate the BEST possible deal they can get from the NHL right now. They could probably get some better than the NHL's last proposal if they acted quickly.

That is, unless they are 110% confident that the courts will rule in their favour.

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12-16-2012, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoobs View Post
Ironically enough, they've set themselves up to lose this lockout even worse if the battle in the courts doesn't come down in their favour.

Best thing for them to do now is to get back to the table and negotiate the BEST possible deal they can get from the NHL right now. They could probably get some better than the NHL's last proposal if they acted quickly.

That is, unless they are 110% confident that the courts will rule in their favour.
and i can't believe i have to say this again, but it would prove that fehr and the players are more stupid then i thought. every step they take is like a step backwards, i don't even think the players actually see the slaughter house that is coming for them.

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12-16-2012, 04:44 PM
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who thinks i should tweet this under the hashtag #lockoutproblems?
Quote:
The players are having problems with the lockout? at least they have a say in when this can stop, but they choose to follow greed #lockoutproblems

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12-16-2012, 04:45 PM
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and i can't believe i have to say this again, but it would prove that fehr and the players are more stupid then i thought.
Mostly players that haven't gotten past the high school level? you don't say!

Simply put, the decertification process may look good for the players but they'd more than likely lose in court as the NLRB doesn't want decertification to be used as a negotiating tacitc. So, are the players prepared to shut down the league for 2+ years or would they rather take the deal on the table and get most of their money sans the money they lost this year

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12-16-2012, 04:46 PM
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I have a few thoughts based on the paragraph and link assuming this information is correct.

____________________________________


DOI vs Decert

On the flip side, because a disclaimer of interest doesn't include a player vote, it may be more vulnerable to the NHL's sham argument, namely, that the players only disclaimed interest to extract leverage in negotiations. It may be tougher to allege a sham argument in the case of a decertification, where players actually made their intent known by way of a vote.

____________________________________


The players are declaring a vote which according to the link is not required for DOI. Why exactly are the players voting if it's DOI? One answer I can find is in the above paragraph and that's in reference to a sham. Is there something else or is it an idle threat?

Hypothetically, what happens if the courts find it to be a sham?

And lastly, could the treatment of Roman Hamrlik be used by the NHL to help prove a sham. There were strong pro union like comments made against him by members of the executive board (Erik Cole, Jeff Halpern) and the negotiating committee (Mathieu Darche and Scott Hartnell). Other players commenting, including some players reps, were Martin Brodeur, Troy Brouwer, Josh Gorges, Alex Ovechkin and other Czech players. And Fehr promotes free speech in his union environment.

It's not like the comments were made months ago. In fact Hartnell's comments were made as recently as last week.

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12-16-2012, 04:47 PM
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I think will see a settlement to this soon, just a hunch

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12-16-2012, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
and i can't believe i have to say this again, but it would prove that fehr and the players are more stupid then i thought. every step they take is like a step backwards, i don't even think the players actually see the slaughter house that is coming for them.
It baffles me too. Sure, the reward (though extremely unlikely) would be great for the players. But the risk, man the risk... Players may have to settle for something similar to what the NHL offered early in the fall. Fehr is a smart man. I don't understand how he isn't properly assessing risk v. reward and the probability of it all. Or if he is, how come he can't come to the realization that the chance he loses is far greater than the chance he wins.

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12-16-2012, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Mostly players that haven't gotten past the high school level? you don't say!

Simply put, the decertification process may look good for the players but they'd more than likely lose in court as the NLRB doesn't want decertification to be used as a negotiating tacitc. So, are the players prepared to shut down the league for 2+ years or would they rather take the deal on the table and get most of their money sans the money they lost this year
This tactic is about as good as the complaint of the lockout being illegal in the 3 provinces. Actually only 2 threw it out of court so far maybe they are waiting for the 3rd to come through.

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12-16-2012, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
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This tactic is about as good as the complaint of the lockout being illegal in the 3 provinces. Actually only 2 threw it out of court so far maybe they are waiting for the 3rd to come through.
the 3rd one was pushed back because they were apparently close to a deal 2 weeks ago lol, and didn't want to ruin the momentum by going to court lol.

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12-16-2012, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Scoobs View Post
It baffles me too. Sure, the reward (though extremely unlikely) would be great for the players. But the risk, man the risk... Players may have to settle for something similar to what the NHL offered early in the fall. Fehr is a smart man. I don't understand how he isn't properly assessing risk v. reward and the probability of it all. Or if he is, how come he can't come to the realization that the chance he loses is far greater than the chance he wins.
The simple truth is he wasn't brought in to make a deal, he's here for war. Just showing how he was hired was brutal, he will certainly go nuclear if he can....it all really depends on how much koolaid he can make.

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12-16-2012, 04:57 PM
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Risk assessment vs probable return seems to be sorely lacking for the players. Makes me wonder how they manage the money they have already earned so far, how they budget and save/invest some for the future after their career is over.

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12-16-2012, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by dennilfloss View Post
Risk assessment vs probable return seems to be sorely lacking for the players.
its not really the players that need to know this stuff, its there agents, fehr who needs to tell them this stuff.

but when you got agents like walsh, and obviously fehr who are trying to destroy the league and cash in. it is not good for the players.

a lot of players have financial people also on the books. especially the younger ones, the ones just signing there 1st contracts. they have there agents, and then someone that helps manage there money. granted once you make it into the nhl, and start pulling in the millions they might feel they don't need that person to manage the money (since there is no way you are going to spend all of that money in your life time right? lol)

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12-16-2012, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAX View Post
This tactic is about as good as the complaint of the lockout being illegal in the 3 provinces. Actually only 2 threw it out of court so far maybe they are waiting for the 3rd to come through.
Educated or not, even pro-PA journalists like Dater and Dupont started blaming the PA lately just as much as the owners.

The fact remains that Fehr has done a great job brainwashing hundreds of players into throwing away their careers for him. Some have even noticed similar brainwashing on here as well.

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12-16-2012, 05:03 PM
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Now this is amusing. Lupul was denied reservations at a restaurant.

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12-16-2012, 05:07 PM
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Some Other Flame

The lockout itself didn't end the career of some 240 players because of those 240 players, how many would never have played another game even if there was no lockout? From the article where the 240 figure originates, they put that number at over a 100.


I did reference the players who were retiring. I simply extrapolated to explain why the number was higher than average and why we should expect a similar number following this lockout as well.

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12-16-2012, 05:08 PM
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There's a #lockoutproblem if I ever saw one. Poor guy has to eat at a normal restaurant instead of a player-exclusive loft.

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12-16-2012, 05:08 PM
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thanks, i was trying to figure out what lupol was saying sorry for. but obviously he removed the tweet to make himself look good.

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12-16-2012, 05:08 PM
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So it's owned by tml. Mr. Tannenbaum not so nice after all

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12-16-2012, 05:08 PM
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Not surprising since I've heard that these guys not playing is costing sports bar up to 30% of their normal income. The restaurants have had to lay off personnel because of the lockout. They are probably persona non grata at many such places at the moment.

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12-16-2012, 05:08 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
Educated or not, even pro-PA journalists like Dater and Dupont started blaming the PA lately just as much as the owners.

The fact remains that Fehr has done a great job brainwashing hundreds of players into throwing away their careers for him. Some have even noticed similar brainwashing on here as well.
Brooks has been bashing the NHL more than ever. Then again, he's just a PA shill. He can't even write articles that don't contradict themselves

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12-16-2012, 05:09 PM
  #23
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Karma is sure a *****. The article says that JVR had "suffered" the same fate:

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/...establishment/

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12-16-2012, 05:14 PM
  #24
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So it's owned by tml. Mr. Tannenbaum not so nice after all
Well, it says that the restaurant is owned by the team (or the group that owns the team). Teams/management aren't allowed to interact with players during the lockout, perhaps they're just interpreting the rules to the extreme!

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12-16-2012, 05:15 PM
  #25
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The ancients would say we reep what we sow.

Good for the restaurant (Next time I'm in Toronto I'll be sure and go there). More of these places should get in the game and freeze these idiots out.

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