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Seguin vs Hall: Individual attributes

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Old
12-04-2012, 05:03 PM
  #101
dss97
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Originally Posted by BadBruins View Post
Seguin honestly isn't the smooth calculating player he's perceived to be by many. He's still very raw as on offensive player. Most of his current game is built around the ability to skate and shoot at an elite level. Top notch vision and passing as well, but that doesn't necessarily make him a premier playmaker. Also raw from a defensive standpoint.

In terms of shooting, that's where I think Seguin has a definite edge. Hall may be the better goal scorer, but Seguin's shooting arsenal is clearly better IMO. Release, velocity, accuracy. It's all there. He even has a heavy slap shot and a nasty backhand to go with it. Surprised so many chose Hall in that category.

Overall, I still say it's a wash.
As an Oiler fan, I couldn't agree more with this post. I'd still take Hall since he is a natural winger and the Oilers have absolutely nothing at LW outside of Hall.

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12-04-2012, 05:17 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by NathanHortonFan View Post
Because Omark's 11 goals in 27 games is anywhere close to Seguin's 22 goals in 23 games....
Just REALLY think about what you're trying to argue here.

...and if we are going down that road. While Seguin may have the 4th best PPG average in that league, Hall also has the 2nd best PPG average in the AHL right now. Only Justin Schultz is better.

For the record. I don't think that matters. I'm just pointing out that Hall is also lighting it up in a lesser league as well. They're both NHLers not playing in the NHL. Guys like Eberle and RNH are right up there with Hall just like Zetterberg, Tavares and even Omark are right there with Seguin on the leader board. They're all doing what they should be doing and it's really not THAT impressive.

Using Seguin's Swiss league stats against Hall is like using RNH's eventual WJC stats against Landeskog.

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12-04-2012, 05:52 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Wheatking View Post
Just REALLY think about what you're trying to argue here.

...and if we are going down that road. While Seguin may have the 4th best PPG average in that league, Hall also has the 2nd best PPG average in the AHL right now. Only Justin Schultz is better.

For the record. I don't think that matters. I'm just pointing out that Hall is also lighting it up in a lesser league as well. They're both NHLers not playing in the NHL. Guys like Eberle and RNH are right up there with Hall just like Zetterberg, Tavares and even Omark are right there with Seguin on the leader board. They're all doing what they should be doing and it's really not THAT impressive.

Using Seguin's Swiss league stats against Hall is like using RNH's eventual WJC stats against Landeskog.
I think the point is that averaging a goal per game ( or in Seguin's case, 22 goals in 23 games ) in any pro league is impressive.

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12-04-2012, 06:03 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by VeddarRants View Post
I think the point is that averaging a goal per game ( or in Seguin's case, 22 goals in 23 games ) in any pro league is impressive.
Is averaging 1.5 points / game in the same pro league impressive? Or do only goals count?

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12-04-2012, 06:19 PM
  #105
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Not part of the Hall Seguin debate but

TSN called him the best player in Europe at the moment with Malkin getting the second slot so I think that's pretty high praise for his accomplishments in the Swiss League by a well respected impartial source so ya, I'm kinda impressed. And he's been playing centre. Definitely what you want to see from him given the circumstances.

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12-04-2012, 08:16 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
Is averaging 1.5 points / game in the same pro league impressive? Or do only goals count?
It's not bad ( albeit you're comparing a 25 year old to a 20 year old ) , but having 22 goals after 23 games when last year the league leader had only 27 in 49 is more eye catching.

Quote:
TSN called him the best player in Europe at the moment with Malkin getting the second slot so I think that's pretty high praise for his accomplishments in the Swiss League by a well respected impartial source so ya, I'm kinda impressed. And he's been playing centre. Definitely what you want to see from him given the circumstances.
And this.

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12-04-2012, 09:53 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
What surprises me most about results from this poll is how people are saying it's even close in terms of shooting. For me it's Seguin and not even close. Better accuracy, equal velocity, better release, better sample size - it's all there from him.

IMO Hall is probably the better scorer though. His combination of offensive instincts, grit, and I guess, "intangibles", allows him to score more dirty goals.
Seguin IMO doesn't have velocity on Hall's shot, I'd say that Hall has more velocity actually. The difference is that Seguin shoots with far greater accuracy. If both guys are getting it on net and got everything on it I like Hall's pucks chances of going in better. If I have to pick one guy to not miss the net I take Seguin

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Old
12-05-2012, 10:34 AM
  #108
Tim Vezina Thomas
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
I'm an Oilers fan. Obviously he's one of my favorite players. Anyways I'm not mental here's some other folks that agree.

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles...he-nhl/page/24

Hall is top 3 fastest skaters in the NHL. That's not debatable. Seguin is fast but this isn't close.
Lol, Bleacher Report? Please. Is this helping your argument?

Seguin is incredibly fast, suggesting it "isnt close" is just idiotic and wrong. I even said I think Hall is faster

This will be my last comment on the matter, as its clearly reached a stalemate/unnecessary to continue.

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12-05-2012, 10:40 AM
  #109
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Yea i had a tough time choosing offensive instincts, went with Hall since he plays on a team thats not as defensively defined as the Bruins, Could be either tho.
When it comes to leadership, Halls definitely the go to guy going forward on the Oilers. Seguin could be a good leader too but with guys like Chara and Bergeron on that team I doubt hell ever have the leadership opportunities Hall will have unless Seguin gets traded, which will probably not happen anytime soon.
Yeah, Seguin was the Captain of the Whalers (whatever thats worth) so I'm not really sure where this "AINEC" leadership attributes come from. Not saying theyre wrong, just saying Seguins really had no opportunity in the NHL to BE a leader, hes always been the youngin.

Like I said tho, itll be interesting to see his progression in the coming years. Being the best offensive weapon on a team comes with inherent leadership responsibilities, so we'll see if he handles himself well. Edmonton is a young team and Hall is the elder statesman of the Oilers most important players. Seguin is the best offensive player, but hes probably 3rd/4th on the most important behind Chara Bergy and Rask.

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12-05-2012, 10:49 AM
  #110
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Back to back Memorial Cup MVP >>>>>> Plymouth whaler's C on your jersey

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12-05-2012, 10:53 AM
  #111
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Back to back Memorial Cup MVP >>>>>> Plymouth whaler's C on your jersey
MVP automatically equals leadership to you, does it?

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12-05-2012, 10:55 AM
  #112
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Seguin had a beauty of a snipe last night. 2:27. There are some other nice goals in the highlights, including a nice tip by Kane.


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12-05-2012, 10:55 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Lol, Bleacher Report? Please. Is this helping your argument?

Seguin is incredibly fast, suggesting it "isnt close" is just idiotic and wrong. I even said I think Hall is faster

This will be my last comment on the matter, as its clearly reached a stalemate/unnecessary to continue.
Agreed, it's ridiculous to say that Hall is much faster than Seguin. In fact, Seguin might actually be the better skater due to his agility although there's no arguing that Hall is the faster skater.

As for the rest of the attributes......

Shooting - Seguin: Hall has more velocity on his shot but Seguin is far more accurate plus he has a better backhand.

Passing - Seguin: Hall is a pretty good passer at times but he makes some really odd decisions with his passing at times. Seguin is a top notch playmaker

Defense - Seguin but very close: Neither are very polished defensively, both have a lot of work to do. Seguin is hugely benefitted by having Bergeron show him the ropes.

Leadership - Hall: It's really hard to quantify this but Hall just oozes leadership skills. There is no doubt from anybody in the Oiler inner circle about who the real leader of the team is. Hall is also very media savvy while Seguin seems very standoffish.
Hall also leads with his on ice play, he constantly drives the play of his line and plays every shift like it's his last one.

Offensive Instincts - Seguin but close: Seguin is more instinctual, has a natural feel for the game while Hall relies on his physical gifts and determination to create offense.

Physicality - Hall, not even remotely close: Not much more needs to be said, thought it was obvious.

Durability - Seguin: I do think that Hall's injury concerns are overblown since a lot of them were flukey but there's no denying that Seguin is the more durable of the two at least thus far.

Grit - Hall: Didn't think that Physicality and Grit needed separate categories.

Overall Offense: Fairly even, slight edge to Segiun
Overall Defense: Slight edge to Seguin here as well

Better Player Now: Too close to call, probably Hall.
Better Player Later: As much as it pains me, probably Seguin by a bit. When comparing 2 players with equally good skillsets, you generally give an edge to the player with more hockey sense which is Seguin.
However, i would still take Hall on my team anyday over Seguin because he has that "it" factor. I have rarely seen a player with Hall's determination shift after shift no matter what the score is. It's incredible to watch plus he's a natural born leader, i'm not sure if i could say the same for Seguin.

The bottom line is that both are great players and both teams should be thrilled with both.
It worked out perfectly because Hall is the ideal fit in Edmonton where he can lead an up and coming, young team and be allowed to play his game, he also has the personality to deal well with the fishbowl atmosphere in Edmonton while Seguin is the perfect fit in Boston because he was able to be eased into the league and didn't have to deal with the pressure of carrying the load and being under a microscope in a hockey mad market. I don't think that Seguin would have done as well in Edmonton and Hall probably wouldn't have done as well in Boston.

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12-05-2012, 10:58 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Agreed, it's ridiculous to say that Hall is much faster than Seguin. In fact, Seguin might actually be the better skater due to his agility although there's no arguing that Hall is the faster skater.

As for the rest of the attributes......

Shooting - Seguin: Hall has more velocity on his shot but Seguin is far more accurate plus he has a better backhand.

Passing - Seguin: Hall is a pretty good passer at times but he makes some really odd decisions with his passing at times. Seguin is a top notch playmaker

Defense - Seguin but very close: Neither are very polished defensively, both have a lot of work to do. Seguin is hugely benefitted by having Bergeron show him the ropes.

Leadership - Hall: It's really hard to quantify this but Hall just oozes leadership skills. There is no doubt from anybody in the Oiler inner circle about who the real leader of the team is. Hall is also very media savvy while Seguin seems very standoffish.
Hall also leads with his on ice play, he constantly drives the play of his line and plays every shift like it's his last one.
Offensive Instincts - Seguin but close: Seguin is more instinctual, has a natural feel for the game while Hall relies on his physical gifts and determination to create offense.
Physicality - Hall, not even remotely close: Not much more needs to be said, thought it was obvious.
Durability - Seguin: I do think that Hall's injury concerns are overblown since a lot of them were flukey but there's no denying that Seguin is the more durable of the two at least thus far.
Grit - Hall: Didn't think that Physicality and Grit needed separate categories.

Overall Offense: Fairly even, slight edge to Segiun
Overall Defense: Slight edge to Seguin here as well

Better Player Now: Too close to call, probably Hall.
Better Player Later: As much as it pains me, probably Seguin by a bit. When comparing 2 players with equally good skillsets, you generally give an edge to the player with more hockey sense which is Seguin.
However, i would still take Hall on my team anyday over Seguin because he has that "it" factor. I have rarely seen a player with Hall's determination shift after shift no matter what the score is. It's incredible to watch plus he's a natural born leader, i'm not sure if i could say the same for Seguin.

The bottom line is that both are great players and both teams should be thrilled with both.
It worked out perfectly because Hall is the ideal fit in Edmonton where he can lead an up and coming, young team and be allowed to play his game, he also has the personality to deal well with the fishbowl atmosphere in Edmonton while Seguin is the perfect fit in Boston because he was able to be eased into the league and didn't have to deal with the pressure of carrying the load and being under a microscope in a hockey mad market. I don't think that Seguin would have done as well in Edmonton.
Great post, except for Seguin being "standoffish" with the media, don't agree with that at all. In fact, I think he relishes being in the media spotlight.

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12-05-2012, 11:02 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Great post, except for Seguin being "standoffish" with the media, don't agree with that at all. In fact, I think he relishes being in the media spotlight.
Maybe standoffish wasn't the right word. He doesn't seem very polished, gives a lot of short answers, just seems like he wants to get the media session over with.
Hall just seems more articulate and genuine in his media scrums.

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12-05-2012, 11:11 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Maybe standoffish wasn't the right word. He doesn't seem very polished, gives a lot of short answers, just seems like he wants to get the media session over with.
Hall just seems more articulate and genuine in his media scrums.
Sometimes everyone just wants the media session over with


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12-05-2012, 11:12 AM
  #117
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I think Seguin is actually faster skater than Hall without the puck but I think Hall is faster skater with the puck on his stick.

Regarding shot I think I have to give that to Seguin. The puck explodes off his stick.

I think they are very close in terms of potential now and in the future. I think arguing about it now is foolish. Let there careers play out and then look back then. Plus who cares who is better. The choices were made. Both fanbases should be happy that we have one of them and the other 28 teams don't

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12-05-2012, 11:15 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Maybe standoffish wasn't the right word. He doesn't seem very polished, gives a lot of short answers, just seems like he wants to get the media session over with.
Hall just seems more articulate and genuine in his media scrums.
I think you might need to watch a little bit more of Seguins interviews, from what I remember hes always been pretty articulate. I also wouldnt be surprised if the vets on that team told him to tone down his interviews.

Then again, I cant recall seeing one of Halls interviews, so maybe he is that much better than Seguin at them.

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12-05-2012, 11:21 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
I think you might need to watch a little bit more of Seguins interviews, from what I remember hes always been pretty articulate. I also wouldnt be surprised if the vets on that team told him to tone down his interviews.

Then again, I cant recall seeing one of Halls interviews, so maybe he is that much better than Seguin at them.
In all fairness, you guys have seen a lot more of Seguin's pressers than i have so it's probably best that i differ to you guys. I'm basing it about 10 or so viewings mostly during the playoff runs.
It might be more about Hall than Seguin. Hall has been very media savvy since day one.
Most hockey players are pretty vanilla when it comes to dealings with the media, look no further than Sidney "NHL Savior" Crosby so it's refreshing to see how Hall handles the media.

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12-05-2012, 02:28 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Yeah, Seguin was the Captain of the Whalers (whatever thats worth) so I'm not really sure where this "AINEC" leadership attributes come from. Not saying theyre wrong, just saying Seguins really had no opportunity in the NHL to BE a leader, hes always been the youngin.
See, that's just it. I don't think anyone's saying Seguin has poor leadership, but Hall never really got given the role either. He took it, and lead by example. Guys like him and Landeskog are the leader because, despite their age, they can step up and do what needs to be done to fire up the team. Hall imo is one of the best leaders (soon to be best captains) in the league. He's up there with guys like Doan and Iginla

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12-05-2012, 02:38 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
In all fairness, you guys have seen a lot more of Seguin's pressers than i have so it's probably best that i differ to you guys. I'm basing it about 10 or so viewings mostly during the playoff runs.
It might be more about Hall than Seguin. Hall has been very media savvy since day one.
Most hockey players are pretty vanilla when it comes to dealings with the media, look no further than Sidney "NHL Savior" Crosby so it's refreshing to see how Hall handles the media.
I'm not sure why this is being discussed but Hall usually seems kind of vanilla in the interviews I've seen him in. He comes across well but it's not like he's up there reeling off jokes or anything. He just comes across as a basic interview to me.

Seguin seems to be pretty outgoing and likes to joke around with the media a lot. I wouldn't say he's "articulate" but he definitely doesn't give basic hockey player canned interviews.

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12-05-2012, 03:23 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
See, that's just it. I don't think anyone's saying Seguin has poor leadership, but Hall never really got given the role either. He took it, and lead by example. Guys like him and Landeskog are the leader because, despite their age, they can step up and do what needs to be done to fire up the team. Hall imo is one of the best leaders (soon to be best captains) in the league. He's up there with guys like Doan and Iginla
Hes already up there with Doan and Iginla after TWO years? Really? Hall isnt on a team with players like Chara and Bergeron, both two of the best leaders in the NHL, not to mention Shawn Thornton who many of the Bruins call "the Godfather."

Its hard to be a leader when for the first whole season you play sheltered minutes and then play on a line with who he says wants to "model his game after." Thats why I said above itll be interesting to see how Seguin reacts to being the best offensive weapon going into the season.

Two completely different situations. Not knocking Hall at all, but using it against Seguin in any way is wrong. There is PLENTY of leadership on the Bruins already.

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12-05-2012, 03:36 PM
  #123
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i think hall is better at everything

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12-05-2012, 03:44 PM
  #124
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I'm not sure why this is being discussed but Hall usually seems kind of vanilla in the interviews I've seen him in. He comes across well but it's not like he's up there reeling off jokes or anything. He just comes across as a basic interview to me.

Seguin seems to be pretty outgoing and likes to joke around with the media a lot. I wouldn't say he's "articulate" but he definitely doesn't give basic hockey player canned interviews.
See that's just it, Hall is a hockey guy through and through. He's pretty outgoing with the jokes when he wants to be but he gives very well thought out answers and is a straight shooter. He won't give the old cliches if the team isn't doing well. He will call out the team for not doing well and himself as well, true captain qualities. I wouldn't say that he's vanilla at all. RNH is the definition of vanilla.

As i said before, my viewings of Seguin's pressers are fairly limited compared to Bruins fans so i can only base it on what i saw and he seemed unlikeable in the interviews, even a bit dismissive.
It's not like it means anything in the long run anyway, just an observation from my point of view.

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12-05-2012, 03:58 PM
  #125
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I like them both and i like that none of them are in toronto more

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