HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Seguin vs Hall: Individual attributes

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-07-2012, 04:46 PM
  #151
Spoked-B
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Spoked-B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Southern NH
Country: United States
Posts: 5,276
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Really? Because I seem to recall this one guy named Milan Hejduk who has nearly 1000 regular season games, 112 games of playoff experience, and even won the cup... He'd definitely be the leader of his team right? Oh wait, no. He's not. It's some guy who's never played a single playoff game, and is only 20. You can only make so many BS excuses for Seguin. Seguin is simply not the sort of leader that a guy like Hall is
I think you can't see the forest for the trees. Who is Hall going to "lead" on the Bruins? Are you seriously saying that Hall comes in and teaches a bunch of veteran leaders (like the list Kaoz provided) on what it takes to be successful?

The Oilers are a team filled with young guys that can be led, the Bruins are not. Seguin is the youngest on the team. How exactly would Hall lead in a way that Seguin can't? Is it effort? Is it by speaking up and telling folks "how it's done"? You want Seguin to be the leader the way Hall is--just put him down at Providence, with a bunch of folks his own age and at his own level of professional experience.

Spoked-B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 05:07 PM
  #152
BudMovin*
Mung Dealer
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Q'onoS
Country: Canary Islands
Posts: 2,100
vCash: 500
I think people are underrating Hall's durability. Not many people could play 30 games a year the way he plays. The abuse he takes shocks me. Not many people would get up after the Doughty hip check.

That being said, I'm still happy Seguin landed in our laps.

BudMovin* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 05:18 PM
  #153
Kaoz*
Ima Krejciist.
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,635
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Really? Because I seem to recall this one guy named Milan Hejduk who has nearly 1000 regular season games, 112 games of playoff experience, and even won the cup... He'd definitely be the leader of his team right? Oh wait, no. He's not. It's some guy who's never played a single playoff game, and is only 20. You can only make so many BS excuses for Seguin. Seguin is simply not the sort of leader that a guy like Hall is
I never said he was, and wouldn't begin to try to as that is something very hard to substantiate. What is far easier to substantiate however is the fact that Hall wouldn't be a leader on the Bruins, which is the actual debate we were having. That's not how this team works. Saying "but that's how Colorado works" doesn't make a lick of difference and is quite a ridiculous argument. The way the Bruins are currently constituted heavily relies on the more veteran leadership. The kids need to earn every last inch they get, and prove themselves beyond a shadow of a doubt before Julien relies on them for even the most minor of responsibilities (such as consistent ice time). It was true with Lucic (whom I rate pretty high in the leadership category), it was true with Marchand, and it was true with Seguin.

Hall would have been no different on this club, he'd have been given nothing and forced to prove himself to the point of frustration for both himself and fans, much like what happened with Seguin.

Kaoz* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 06:26 PM
  #154
Sky04
Registered User
 
Sky04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Really? Because I seem to recall this one guy named Milan Hejduk who has nearly 1000 regular season games, 112 games of playoff experience, and even won the cup... He'd definitely be the leader of his team right? Oh wait, no. He's not. It's some guy who's never played a single playoff game, and is only 20. You can only make so many BS excuses for Seguin. Seguin is simply not the sort of leader that a guy like Hall is
Oh.. so you think Hejduk isn't the leader of his team? You don't think 10/10 guys on the Av's would take an order from Hedjuk over Landeskog? Guy handed his captaincy over because he wasn't playing on the top-2 lines anymore, speaks a lot about his character. Just cause Landeskog wears the C doesn't mean he's the leader.

Sky04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 07:07 PM
  #155
enviro61
Registered User
 
enviro61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,186
vCash: 500
How the hell do any of us know how they are regarded in the dressing room by their peers, including vets? Leadership qualities are mere speculation unless anyone has played with them or spoken to their teammates off the record.

As for offensive capabilities, Seguin has improved dramatically from year to year whereas Hall has been at a fairly lvl output (though harder to gauge with him due to injuries). If I had to take a player, I'd probably go with Seguin but you can not go wrong with either it seems. Definitely one of those times where the 2 top players really are meeting expectations and may have very comparable careers if they can stay healthy.

enviro61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 08:30 PM
  #156
oilers92
Registered User
 
oilers92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,924
vCash: 788
Quote:
Originally Posted by enviro61 View Post
How the hell do any of us know how they are regarded in the dressing room by their peers, including vets? Leadership qualities are mere speculation unless anyone has played with them or spoken to their teammates off the record.

As for offensive capabilities, Seguin has improved dramatically from year to year whereas Hall has been at a fairly lvl output (though harder to gauge with him due to injuries). If I had to take a player, I'd probably go with Seguin but you can not go wrong with either it seems. Definitely one of those times where the 2 top players really are meeting expectations and may have very comparable careers if they can stay healthy.
hall had a .646ppg 1st yr improved to .868ppg in his 2nd quite an impressive jump no? also both players are elite hall brings leadership seguin brings poise cant go wrong with either

oilers92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2012, 12:46 AM
  #157
VeddarRants
HEART AND SOUL
 
VeddarRants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 12,522
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Exactly. Smyth is as good of "leader" as anyone on the Bruins, yet because the Bruins are cup contenders, it means that Hall couldn't pass any of them?
Hall simply wouldn't have the chance too. It's vastly different pecking order. The Bruins had an established veteran leadership core for awhile now prior to Seguin becoming a Bruin. Because of this veteran core and the position the Bruins were/are in as a contending team, Seguin is being asked to simply learn the system, hone his skills, and work hard on and off the ice.

I don't disagree that Hall has shown better leadership traits than Seguin, but to think Hall would be a part of the leadership core here in Boston is just asinine. Edmonton and Boston are in completely opposite positions as franchises and core structure. Hockey analysts and insiders have called Boston's locker room the tightest group of guys in the league and the best run. That speaks volumes of the leadership here in Boston.

On a completely different side note ( although not completely off topic ) he may not wear an A, but Shawn Thornton is so respected by his teammates as a leader and prominent figure in the locker room, they nicknamed him The Godfather. What a perfect nickname for him.

VeddarRants is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2012, 12:48 AM
  #158
VeddarRants
HEART AND SOUL
 
VeddarRants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 12,522
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by enviro61 View Post
How the hell do any of us know how they are regarded in the dressing room by their peers, including vets? Leadership qualities are mere speculation unless anyone has played with them or spoken to their teammates off the record.
You don't read a newspaper and see what players say about their teammates? Listen to interviews or follow news reporters with access to the lockerroom on a daily basis and they'll fill you in on who's who and the pecking order in lockerrooms.

VeddarRants is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2012, 12:59 AM
  #159
Philly85
Moody'
 
Philly85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,393
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreator View Post
Pretty amazing analogy.
I'm disappointed I didn't get more props in the thread considering its an amazing/perfect analogy as well as being the best p0ast in the entire thread itself. Appreciate the recognition though, lol.

Philly85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2012, 01:11 AM
  #160
franfrey*
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,423
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly85 View Post
Seguin is like Leon from The Professional, Hall is Chow Yun Fat from Hard Boiled.
Pretty amazing analogy.

franfrey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2012, 01:57 AM
  #161
Aucoin11*
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 939
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly85 View Post
I'm disappointed I didn't get more props in the thread considering its an amazing/perfect analogy as well as being the best p0ast in the entire thread itself. Appreciate the recognition though, lol.
Don't hurt yourself over there.

Aucoin11* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2013, 10:27 PM
  #162
sandhu111
Registered User
 
sandhu111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 298
vCash: 500
some funny comments in this one

sandhu111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2013, 10:48 PM
  #163
Vdhawan89
#FireLowe
 
Vdhawan89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 3,860
vCash: 500
Skating-Hall
Shooting-Hall
Passing- Seguin
Defense- Draw
Leadership- Hall
Offensive Instincts- Hall
Physicality-Hall
Durability- Seguin
Grit- Hall

Overall Offense: Hall
Overall Defense: Seguin

Better Player Now: Hall
Better Player Later:Hall



How anyone can say Seguin is the better player now is dumbfounding.


Last edited by Vdhawan89: 07-26-2013 at 04:40 AM.
Vdhawan89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2013, 11:55 PM
  #164
Intact
Registered User
 
Intact's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Mississauga ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,361
vCash: 500
Hall is just much more dominant at this point, Seguin being too soft, but he was certainly snake-bitten a little. Seguin has all the tools in the world to be a top 5-10 scorer but I don't think he has the toolbox to do it. I am extremely biased against though, Seguin might be my least favourite player in the league - complete *********.

When it comes to tools Seguin matches Hall though no question.

Intact is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2013, 12:46 AM
  #165
Dtb1381
Registered User
 
Dtb1381's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 549
vCash: 500
Skating Seguin
Shooting Hall
Passing Seguin
Defense Seguin
Leadership Hall
Offensive Instincts Hall
Physicality Hall
Durability Has to be Seguin because of games played, but it's probably because he's a Sally and Halls not
Grit Hall

Overall Offense: Hall
Overall Defense: Seguin

Better Player Now: Hall
Better Player Later: Hall


Dtb1381 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2013, 01:17 AM
  #166
vespa99
Registered User
 
vespa99's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,475
vCash: 500
Skating Hall
Shooting Hall
Passing tie
Defense Seguin
Leadership Hall
Offensive Instincts Hall
Physicality Hall
Durability Seguin (as a previous poster said he is a bit of a Sally so less likely to get hurt)
Grit Hall
Passion and Drive Hall
IT HALL
Overall Offense: Hall
Overall Defense: Seguin

Better Player Now: Hall
Better Player Later: Hall

I didn't really put one up for "intangibles" - because I don't really know how to describe it. Sorry if this is the wrong board for this - just couldn't figure out a way to justify this in the Polls section[/QUOTE]

I added that for you. It is called IT... and Hall has it. Seguin, not so much
Hall is way better now and the gap will widen unless Hall gets hurt which could happen as he plays with more passion than Seguin.

vespa99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2013, 01:45 AM
  #167
Happy Hallidays
We are the 18%
 
Happy Hallidays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,586
vCash: 500
People that still think Hall plays like a reckless idiot really didn't watch him last year.. lol

Not sure why Seguin get's all this defensive praise, should be interesting seeing him not play with Bergeron next year and see how he handles being "the guy" with Benn in Dallas.

Happy Hallidays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2013, 01:47 AM
  #168
Happy Hallidays
We are the 18%
 
Happy Hallidays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,586
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Agreed, it's ridiculous to say that Hall is much faster than Seguin. In fact, Seguin might actually be the better skater due to his agility although there's no arguing that Hall is the faster skater.

As for the rest of the attributes......

Shooting - Seguin: Hall has more velocity on his shot but Seguin is far more accurate plus he has a better backhand.

Passing - Seguin: Hall is a pretty good passer at times but he makes some really odd decisions with his passing at times. Seguin is a top notch playmaker

Defense - Seguin but very close: Neither are very polished defensively, both have a lot of work to do. Seguin is hugely benefitted by having Bergeron show him the ropes.

Leadership - Hall: It's really hard to quantify this but Hall just oozes leadership skills. There is no doubt from anybody in the Oiler inner circle about who the real leader of the team is. Hall is also very media savvy while Seguin seems very standoffish.
Hall also leads with his on ice play, he constantly drives the play of his line and plays every shift like it's his last one.

Offensive Instincts - Seguin but close: Seguin is more instinctual, has a natural feel for the game while Hall relies on his physical gifts and determination to create offense.

Physicality - Hall, not even remotely close: Not much more needs to be said, thought it was obvious.

Durability - Seguin: I do think that Hall's injury concerns are overblown since a lot of them were flukey but there's no denying that Seguin is the more durable of the two at least thus far.

Grit - Hall: Didn't think that Physicality and Grit needed separate categories.

Overall Offense: Fairly even, slight edge to Segiun
Overall Defense: Slight edge to Seguin here as well

Better Player Now: Too close to call, probably Hall.
Better Player Later: As much as it pains me, probably Seguin by a bit. When comparing 2 players with equally good skillsets, you generally give an edge to the player with more hockey sense which is Seguin.
However, i would still take Hall on my team anyday over Seguin because he has that "it" factor. I have rarely seen a player with Hall's determination shift after shift no matter what the score is. It's incredible to watch plus he's a natural born leader, i'm not sure if i could say the same for Seguin.

The bottom line is that both are great players and both teams should be thrilled with both.
It worked out perfectly because Hall is the ideal fit in Edmonton where he can lead an up and coming, young team and be allowed to play his game, he also has the personality to deal well with the fishbowl atmosphere in Edmonton while Seguin is the perfect fit in Boston because he was able to be eased into the league and didn't have to deal with the pressure of carrying the load and being under a microscope in a hockey mad market. I don't think that Seguin would have done as well in Edmonton and Hall probably wouldn't have done as well in Boston.
Care to re evaluate your position CupofOil

Happy Hallidays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2013, 02:50 AM
  #169
spOiler
Registered User
 
spOiler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,154
vCash: 500
I think the lockout really reduced the viewing of hall by the east this year. I think that some posters are in for quite a surprise when they see what has made hall the second highest point getter in the western conference.

spOiler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2013, 06:17 AM
  #170
KClovesGaming
Registered User
 
KClovesGaming's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,426
vCash: 500
It's a safe bet that the majority know Hall is an absolute beast and is only going to get better. Some who think otherwise probably haven't gotten to see him much, being in the West and all. He takes being a pro athlete very seriously and works his ass off to try and get better. You can tell he wants it so bad.

I read somewhere that his dad is a crazy fitness nut and had been training him for years prior to the NHL. It wouldn't surprise me. He's always been in really great shape. Just has to fill out more, but you can already see the signs of a future top player in the league in the near future.

Seguin is a good player, but there was too much depth around him in Boston. He'll really get a chance to show what he can do in Dallas with consistent ice time. Next season, he could end up kicking butt or he may end up struggling. Time will tell. But overall, I think Hall wants it more and it shows.

BTW, I found this video of Hall from a few days ago. Nice hands.

http://instagram.com/p/cKn97bJ9MH/

KClovesGaming is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:14 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.