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Lockout Thread #3: The Rollercoaster Continues...

View Poll Results: When will the lockout end?
December 15-31st,2012 6 19.35%
January 2013 13 41.94%
September 2013 6 19.35%
October 2013-December 2013 2 6.45%
January 2014 0 0%
September 2014 0 0%
October 2014-January 2015 0 0%
NHL is gone forever 4 12.90%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-06-2012, 07:35 PM
  #401
Moonlapse Vertigo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitchslap View Post
Gotta wonder if that clown Fehr is gonna lose the support of the players after this. What an eventful evening.
Think again.

Quote:
Scottie Upshall ‏@ScottieUpshall
Plain and simple these owners think they can break us apart. GOOD LUCK! We r stronger than we've ever been and r behind Fehr %100.

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12-06-2012, 07:36 PM
  #402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly85 View Post
This is ****ing disgraceful, I'm trying to watch a premier game between NYK and Miami Heat, and they're going on and on with this lockout nonsense, are the ratings for this garbage in Canada really that much better than what they would be for a prime time NBA match up between two of the leagues best? If so, utterly pathetic. I wish I could ***** slap each and every one of these TSN idiots. I don't care about this damn lock out anymore, what happens happens. How does this benefit the viewer, who gives a flying **** anymore.
You're complaining about this on a hockey forum?

The podium used for the press conferences has its own Twitter account. There's your answer.

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12-06-2012, 07:37 PM
  #403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Think again.

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Old
12-06-2012, 07:38 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by OilerNut View Post
What stops the big market teams front loading 20 year contracts and poaching all the other teams once again?
There are maybe a 1/2 dozen players in the league that have been "poached" from their previous team to a different team with these long term contracts. Its worth losing a season over that? The rich teams are always going to be the rich teams and be able to spend more.

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12-06-2012, 07:47 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
There are maybe a 1/2 dozen players in the league that have been "poached" from their previous team to a different team with these long term contracts. Its worth losing a season over that? The rich teams are always going to be the rich teams and be able to spend more.
Yes. If those 6 players go from a small market where they are the only reason for fans to have interest in the teams. That is a death blow to those franchises, causing their owner to lose his biggest source of income.

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Old
12-06-2012, 07:50 PM
  #406
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Last hope is in the PA conference call tonight.

If the union solidarity holds it's not going to happen.

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12-06-2012, 07:51 PM
  #407
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Allan Walsh is at it again.

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Allan Walsh ‏@walsha
Fact: NHL is the only major professional sport where players share room with teammate on the road. @cotsonika
Those poor players. I think that I have some extra money put away for Christmas but if the players really need it... tis the season, after all.

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12-06-2012, 07:54 PM
  #408
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God Upshall is an idiot. Yeah treat you like cattle eh? Chartered flights, 5 star hotels and an annual salary more than most people make in their lifetimes. Cattle I tell you. Moron.

It honestly sounds like the owners in that room were trying to compromise and make a deal, and were met with with very little of said compromise from the other side. (from the Owners statements)

Players need to realize this isn't the NFL. We're not healthy as the other leagues. We don't have the TV deals.

Beyond disappointing.

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12-06-2012, 07:56 PM
  #409
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Seeing these statements from owners of well off teams makes me wonder just how angry the hard-liners would have been if they were present.

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Old
12-06-2012, 07:57 PM
  #410
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At first i thought this was just the blow out from long frustrating days and that they would take a few days to breathe and maybe get back to it. However if infact the make whole provision is off the table permanently then this season may have gone with it. We'll have to wait and see what happens next couple days decertification or a disclaimer of interest may be the pa's next move. Bettman said he won't play less then 48 games so that leaves about a month for a deal to get done before league kills the season, so unless the nhl wants to meet again in the near future, their next move is just waiting til january.
I'm a bit surprised by how much of the blame and hate is going towards the players right now. I always blamed both sides but today i felt pretty pissed at the owners. They blew this up today period there is no denying that they could have tried to continue negotiating or pushing the union instead they ran out of patience and blew it up, and that my friends is unacceptable, Bettman said owners pushed for a deal yesterday and were insulted by the lack of reaction from the pa' maybe someone should tell them the pa has 700+ people things happen a little slower over there,
it really does not matter who's fault this is fact is the nhl is poised to cancel another season over issues that are absolutely not worth canceling a season for. I was waiting to hear something i didn't know from bettman something the pa didn't say in their confernce something that caused the owners to do this but i didn't what basically happen was league owners ran out of patience

Good news here canada will have a good wjc team

It's my 800th post and my first long one i was hoping it wouldn't have to be in the lockout thread i

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12-06-2012, 07:57 PM
  #411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
God Upshall is an idiot. Yeah treat you like cattle eh? Chartered flights, 5 star hotels and an annual salary more than most people make in their lifetimes. Cattle I tell you. Moron.

It honestly sounds like the owners in that room were trying to compromise and make a deal, and were met with with very little of said compromise from the other side. (from the Owners statements)

Players need to realize this isn't the NFL. We're not healthy as the other leagues. We don't have the TV deals.

Beyond disappointing.
I was just about to post that horrendous tweet.

Quote:
@ScottieUpshall
There's no pressure yet on the owners to lose this year, that's why they still treat us like Cattle. They'll need a partner come January.
Go play in Russia, Scottie. Nobody pays any attention to you in Florida anyway.

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12-06-2012, 07:59 PM
  #412
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God, I am so sick of Bettman's "ITS OFF THE TABLE!" crap. Does he seriously think he is negotiating with 5 year olds or something?
Well...he is negotiating with Fehr, so ya, prety much 5 year olds.

I really don't like the way Fehr is representing the players in these negotiations at all. Right at the beginning of his opening staetement in today's presser, he pretty much shot down the NHL and the owners before elaboating on the points that are moving forward. If that is the way he's going to keep playing this game, the players and fans are the ones that are going to be most affected.

I believe that the owners have a right to be digusted and disjointed by the doule talk that Fehr is providing, given the amount that they pay the players as well as other costs like food, medial staff, room and board, plane rides and transportation, Psychiatrists, Psychologists, bone, muscle and organ specialists, and whatever wlse is provided to the players and their families at the owners expense.

And the players are buying into this guys (Fehr's) BS hook line and sinker.

All I'm hearing from these guys is a lot of white noise. I'm pretty much done with these clowns no matter what happens nect. I've got better things to do with my time.

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12-06-2012, 08:00 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Did you read the Scottie Upshall tweet that I posted?
Yes but I don't see how it relates.

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12-06-2012, 08:00 PM
  #414
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Yes but I don't see how it relates.
He has the maturity level of a five year old.

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12-06-2012, 08:03 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
Yes. If those 6 players go from a small market where they are the only reason for fans to have interest in the teams. That is a death blow to those franchises, causing their owner to lose his biggest source of income.
Good riddance to a franchise that can't handle the loss of a single player. League would be better off.

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12-06-2012, 08:04 PM
  #416
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Quote:
@ScottieUpshall
There's no pressure yet on the owners to lose this year, that's why they still treat us like Cattle. They'll need a partner come January.
http://www.capgeek.com/player/1129

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12-06-2012, 08:06 PM
  #417
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Scottie's mad that he won't be able to buy the yacht he promised his wife this Christmas.

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12-06-2012, 08:06 PM
  #418
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
Good riddance to a franchise that can't handle the loss of a single player. League would be better off.
I agree it would be. The problem is that the other 25 unmarketable players on that team would be out of jobs. The NHLPA would lose their shat if the league tried to contract. It is to their benefit as a union to improve the stability of the league and the weaker teams. Too bad the players cant see past their own reflection in the mirror to see this.

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12-06-2012, 08:06 PM
  #419
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Upshall gets 3.5 a year? Ew.

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12-06-2012, 08:09 PM
  #420
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Chris Johnston ‏@reporterchris
Ron Hainsey says the NHL told players last night that bringing Don Fehr back into the room was potentially "a deal-breaker."

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12-06-2012, 08:10 PM
  #421
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Quote:
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Chris Johnston ‏@reporterchris
Ron Hainsey says the NHL told players last night that bringing Don Fehr back into the room was potentially "a deal-breaker."

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12-06-2012, 08:12 PM
  #422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
Chris Johnston ‏@reporterchris
Ron Hainsey says the NHL told players last night that bringing Don Fehr back into the room was potentially "a deal-breaker."
That pretty much says it all, doesn't it?

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12-06-2012, 08:13 PM
  #423
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People keep talking about the make whole provision being off the table. Let me take a stab at what I think happened here:

1) The NHL set it's priorities before these owner/player meetings and they decided that the contract demands they had were most important to them. The amount of money in the make whole thing not so much, especially since it's a one time cost (unlike revenue share percentage).

2) So they come into the meeting with the players and they lead off by giving more for the make whole, the pensions, etc. Putting some money on the table. First, it gets the players feeling optimistic which makes them emotionally vulnerable and more willing to negotiate. Second, it sets them up so that later, when more important items come up, it's now their turn to capitulate.

3) They slip in the contract stuff, and the players don't react because they don't quite realize how important it is. They go back to create a counter proposal and Fehr knows it would be a mistake to just give them everything on the contract stuff, because he knows that it's way more important than the amount of make whole money. So he puts into the counter proposal some adjustments towards the players side on the contract stuff.

4) The owners, thinking they'd pulled one over on the players, by putting them in a position where they are supposed to feel like they have to give up some stuff, are really pissed to find out Fehr got in the way and kibosh-ed it.

Basically, it was an attempt by the NHL to throw some money at the player short term, in order to buy some changes in the system that will benefit them forever. In other words, it's EXACTLY what the NHL did last time (successfully) to get the salary cap system in place. The beauty of it this time is they can continue to push for a long term CBA, because this time they put the extra money in the make whole provision as a 1 time payout, rather than in the players share of the revenue (as was the case in the last CBA).

Everything after that, in front of the microphones, was just grandstanding. Not for the fans, but for the players, who watch TSN too. The "off the table", the "hill we're willing to die on", etc... it's all a set up to get the players to turn on Fehr when he goes back to them. It's not for us, sorry.

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12-06-2012, 08:13 PM
  #424
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Did I hear this correctly. Bettman stated the NHLPA wanted a defined benefits pension plan, and the owners were willing to give it to them if an agreement was reached on contract length and variance? That is an extremely generous offer on the owners part in my opinion. It could be hundreds of millions in liabilities.

Maybe I misheard

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12-06-2012, 08:13 PM
  #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Scottie's mad that he won't be able to buy the yacht he promised his wife this Christmas.
I bet you Florida's owner would trade him and his contract for a side of beef right now

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