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Roster Talk '13 — Finland

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Old
12-21-2012, 10:37 AM
  #301
helicecopter
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mmh..looks like now the only way to have 3 scoring lines would be keeping Teuvo on the 3rd line, and i don't like giving one of your top 3 players 3rd line minutes and 3rd line linemates.

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12-21-2012, 10:45 AM
  #302
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Originally Posted by helicecopter View Post
mmh..looks like now the only way to have 3 scoring lines would be keeping Teuvo on the 3rd line, and i don't like giving one of your top 3 players 3rd line minutes and 3rd line linemates.
Spreading the skill over three lines is the right thing to do. Finland will have four games in six days' time. Every unit should get plenty of ice time, unless Rindell makes the same mistake as Raipe who gave Granlund's unit every second shift all the time so that they just ran out of steam when they were supposed to be at their best.

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12-21-2012, 11:44 AM
  #303
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Originally Posted by FiLe View Post
Spreading the skill over three lines is the right thing to do. Finland will have four games in six days' time. Every unit should get plenty of ice time, unless Rindell makes the same mistake as Raipe who gave Granlund's unit every second shift all the time so that they just ran out of steam when they were supposed to be at their best.
That is excellent point and hopefully the coaches realize that too.

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12-21-2012, 12:03 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by FiLe View Post
Team Canada's "preliminary" games before last night consisted of "Team White, Team Red" scrimmages between players invited to the selection camp.
There were games against University of Alberta and CIS all-stars last week.

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12-21-2012, 12:12 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by FiLe View Post
Spreading the skill over three lines is the right thing to do. Finland will have four games in six days' time. Every unit should get plenty of ice time, unless Rindell makes the same mistake as Raipe who gave Granlund's unit every second shift all the time so that they just ran out of steam when they were supposed to be at their best.
i'm not against spreading the skills over 3 lines, that is what i was expecting this year given the unusual depth, but it shouldn't mean waste Teuvo's set up and offensive zone skills.
I Still think going with 3 scoring lines should mean having Granlund, Barkov and Salomaki centering 3 different lines and pairing Barkov with Haapala, even more so with J.Ikonen now out of the picture.

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12-21-2012, 12:43 PM
  #306
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Last year at U18 they had Teravainen - Barkov - Lehkonen line playing time to time, i heard that reason why it wasn't the main offensive line through out the tournament was because they wanted to spread offense and not to put it all in one line.

If their coach want's to run with 3 solid units, he should be fired, last game Teravainen was kinda alone in that second line, no support from linemates in any rushes it looked like they were scared to go over blueline, his linemates didn't use him when he was wide open stick on ice at power play (you were honestly able to see how frustrated he was to play with those two guys who kinda didn't have any vision at all).
I didn't see that line until the last couple of games or when they went to three lines.

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12-21-2012, 12:52 PM
  #307
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Jussi Jokinen was a NT veteran playing the season of his life, and had never put up a lacklustre showing in the NT either.

Juuso Ikonen is a 95-born cagehead playing his first season on U20 level. He had a good start at the summer camp in Lake Placid, but vanished from the picture completely after that. Yes, he was doing fine under Marjamäki in Blues, but he wasn't doing any favors for himself in the preliminary U20 games under Rindell (there was more than just the Canada one). 0+0 despite getting loads of TOI next to very familiar Aaltonen. He just wasn't cut out for the system of Rindell and Valtonen. Yet.

In the meanwhile, both Haapala and Järveläinen, his presumed main challengers, were playing a far more mature game - and scoring. Go look up their U20 stats. Read the game reports. It tells you the whole story.

So... no. There is no "Ikosgate" to speak of. It may feel like a big FU from Rindell and Valtonen towards Ikonen after these past few months he's had with Blues, but had they cut either Haapala or Järveläinen they would have flipped even bigger bird to 'em, because they were better in the U20 games than Ikonen. Please. Try. To. Understand. That.
Ikonen also was complete non-factor at the U-18 WJC. Granted, fatigue played a factor but that didn't stop Teräväinen from putting up points.

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12-21-2012, 12:56 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by FiLe View Post
Finland's captain and alternates:

C - Lindbohm
A - Salomäki
A - Määttä


Per - http://sjl01.lahtis-enterprises.com/...00024057&BIND=
By the way, if anybody wanted to see Barkov's name among the captains, he himself said in yesterday's Iltalehti that he's not the most vocal player in the locker room.

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12-21-2012, 12:59 PM
  #309
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St. Louis fan here. Can someone provide a scouting report on Lindbohm? While it's nice to see that he's the Captain, I know the designation is not necessarily reflective of his skill (as there are many players on the team more skilled than him). What do you guys think is his NHL potential? Potential 3rd pairing defensive defenseman, or possibly 2nd pairing (if any NHL potential at all)?

Thanks!

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12-21-2012, 01:27 PM
  #310
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By the way, if anybody wanted to see Barkov's name among the captains, he himself said in yesterday's Iltalehti that he's not the most vocal player in the locker room.
Never expected that. He's not a locker room leader and way too shy to be captain. He can provide the team with a lot of on-ice leadership, though.

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12-21-2012, 01:57 PM
  #311
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I hope that Rindell would put Leino or Lamberg to the 3rd line with Teräväinen and Aaltonen. Based on Canada game 3rd line needs a good forechecker. If they put Järveläinen there I'm very dissapointed.

I'm glad that Vainonen wasn't selected. It was scary when he touched the puck. Physically good but with the puck very uncertain and hazardous looking.

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12-21-2012, 02:37 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by helicecopter View Post
I Still think going with 3 scoring lines should mean having Granlund, Barkov and Salomaki centering 3 different lines and pairing Barkov with Haapala, even more so with J.Ikonen now out of the picture.
You're really underestimating Aaltonen here. He and Teräväinen have been a fine tandem in the past. The only issue I could imagine would be less TOI in the namely 3rd line, but the game schedule is so tight that I believe that won't be a problem either. Unless, of course, Rindell's head is thicker than we think.

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There were games against University of Alberta and CIS all-stars last week.
So, two games? At least Ikonen had four (three in Sundsvall and the Canada matchup).

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Originally Posted by sinettiseura View Post
I hope that Rindell would put Leino or Lamberg to the 3rd line with Teräväinen and Aaltonen. Based on Canada game 3rd line needs a good forechecker. If they put Järveläinen there I'm very dissapointed.
Yeah, that line had an obvious grind problem vs. Canada and replacing Ikonen with Järveläinen is no solution, despite the fact that Järveläinen has put up a better showing.

Still, wouldn't break the Jokerit shutdown line either. Nykopp would be my solution to that slot.


Last edited by FiLe: 12-21-2012 at 02:44 PM.
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12-21-2012, 02:41 PM
  #313
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Teravainen on the 3rd line. What a waste. I would switch Teravainen and Granlund.

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12-21-2012, 02:48 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by tfriede2 View Post
St. Louis fan here. Can someone provide a scouting report on Lindbohm? While it's nice to see that he's the Captain, I know the designation is not necessarily reflective of his skill (as there are many players on the team more skilled than him). What do you guys think is his NHL potential? Potential 3rd pairing defensive defenseman, or possibly 2nd pairing (if any NHL potential at all)?
Not a top prospect, but has definitely a fair chance to be a decent 3rd pair shutdown D. Good on-ice sense in the own end, can give the first pass. Adequate skater. 2nd pair with limited PP time if everything goes right. In other words, Toni Lydman type.

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12-21-2012, 02:51 PM
  #315
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Teravainen on the 3rd line. What a waste. I would switch Teravainen and Granlund.
Right, break up Granlund-Armia, the best tandem we have (as made evident by yesterday's game) simply because... what? Teräväinen has better overall score than Granlund in NHL 13?

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12-21-2012, 02:59 PM
  #316
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Teravainen on the 3rd line. What a waste. I would switch Teravainen and Granlund.
There is no reason to switch Teravainen and Granlund?

Edit: So late..

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12-21-2012, 03:13 PM
  #317
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Looks like the 3rd line will be Teräväinen-Aaltonen-Järveläinen tomorrow. Yay.

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12-21-2012, 03:24 PM
  #318
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Looks like the 3rd line will be Teräväinen-Aaltonen-Järveläinen tomorrow. Yay.
Well, it is pretty well-roled line, dontcha think? It has a good, solid two-way centre in Aaltonen, a world-class puck handler in Teräväinen and apparently this season's most lethal U20 sniper in Järveläinen.

Yes, it lacks size and their ability to handle the physical game can be an issue, but isn't it good that they try this out now and see if it works rather than waiting 'til Boxing Day? Because if it doesn't, they still have a chance to patch things up, maybe throw a headbanger into the mix.

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12-21-2012, 03:29 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by FiLe View Post
Well, it is pretty well-roled line, dontcha think? It has a good, solid two-way centre in Aaltonen, a world-class puck handler in Teräväinen and apparently this season's most lethal U20 sniper in Järveläinen.

Yes, it lacks size and their ability to handle the physical game can be an issue, but isn't it good that they try this out now and see if it works rather than waiting 'til Boxing Day? Because if it doesn't, they still have a chance to patch things up, maybe throw a headbanger to the mix.
I didn't see that yesterday. Scheifele's goal was an easy one. But maybe it was Ikonen's fault then.

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12-21-2012, 03:33 PM
  #320
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Last year at U18 they had Teravainen - Barkov - Lehkonen line playing time to time, i heard that reason why it wasn't the main offensive line through out the tournament was because they wanted to spread offense and not to put it all in one line.

If their coach want's to run with 3 solid units, he should be fired, last game Teravainen was kinda alone in that second line, no support from linemates in any rushes it looked like they were scared to go over blueline, his linemates didn't use him when he was wide open stick on ice at power play (you were honestly able to see how frustrated he was to play with those two guys who kinda didn't have any vision at all).
Pretty much.

I don't think we have enough depth to put out 3 legit scoring lines. TT can't do it all by himself, no one can.

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Looks like the 3rd line will be Teräväinen-Aaltonen-Järveläinen tomorrow. Yay.
Well we'll see how it works out tomorrow. I'd just be pissed if/when Teräväinen makes filthy passes that Barkov and Lehkonen would bury 99% of the time and Aaltonen/Järveläinen whiff the puck.

Which team has their arguably second best winger and most dynamic player on teh ****ing third line?

The Finnish ****ing national team, that's who.

I know Haapala has some nice chemistry with Barkov already and it's very important in a short tournament like this but if Haapala is good enough to be on top6, without other Barkov and Lehkonen having not to carry him on their backs he sure as hell is good enough to be on the third line, no? Seriously it's like having Selänne on third line at Anaheim or Kane at Hawks. Let's spread the talent, eh? (Yeah, I'm maybe reaching here)

I want TT there with he's hands and speed while Murphy is on the ice and Barkov covering TT's cherry picking and feeding him.

End rant.

I'd be very happy to eat my words if TT at 3rd line works out, though.


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12-21-2012, 03:46 PM
  #321
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Pretty much.

I don't think we have enough depth to put out 3 legit scoring lines. TT can't do it all by himself, no one can.



Well we'll see how it works out tomorrow. I'd just be pissed if/when Teräväinen makes filthy passes that Barkov and Lehkonen would bury 99% of the time and Aaltonen/Järveläinen whiff the puck.

Which team has their arguably second best winger and most dynamic player on teh ****ing third line?

The Finnish ****ing national team, that's who.

I know Haapala has some nice chemistry with Barkov already and it's very important in a short tournament like this but if Haapala is good enough to be on top6, without other Barkov and Lehkonen having not to carry him on their backs he sure as hell is good enough to be on the third line, no? Seriously it's like having Selänne on third line at Anaheim or Kane at Hawks. Let's spread the talent, eh? (Yeah, I'm maybe reaching here)

I want TT there with he's hands and speed while Murphy is on the ice and Barkov covering he's cherry picking and feeding him.

End rant.

I'd be very happy to eat my words if this works out.
This. It's just pure madness to keep TT on the 3rd line. If Ikonen was too bad to play (and was cut) there then Haapala should fit the bill. Otherwise he should go too.

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12-21-2012, 03:52 PM
  #322
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Well, it is pretty well-roled line, dontcha think? It has a good, solid two-way centre in Aaltonen, a world-class puck handler in Teräväinen and apparently this season's most lethal U20 sniper in Järveläinen.

Yes, it lacks size and their ability to handle the physical game can be an issue, but isn't it good that they try this out now and see if it works rather than waiting 'til Boxing Day? Because if it doesn't, they still have a chance to patch things up, maybe throw a headbanger into the mix.
I don't think this combination will be much better than the one they used in Thursday's game. IMO the biggest issue was already visible then and Järveläinen isn't the solution. Teräväinen is very talented and Aaltonen is a good player, and they can probably develop chemistry rather quickly, but they need someone to make space for them. It's not even about the physical size as much as it's about the style of play. At this point I'd be willing to try just about every single 4th line contender there.

If they totally blow it tomorrow, I think the smartest choice would be to cut Järveläinen.

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12-21-2012, 04:09 PM
  #323
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About the Ikonen saga

This is what I wrote about Juuso Ikonen after the Lake Placid tournament in August:

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I have mixed feelings about Ikonen and I’m not quite sure what to write about him. He’s a good passer and able to move the puck fast, therefore in theory he’s a suitable guy for playing with other skilled players. I’m just not sure if he’s what this team needs the most in top-6, Armia, Granlund and Teräväinen aren’t the most consistent guys out there, and Salomäki, Aaltonen and Barkov would provide much needed stability far better than young lightweight Ikonen. He was a bit of a non-factor at times, but still brought some offence to the team. He could be useful as a 2nd or 3rd line right winger, but if all the top forwards are healthy he might see limited ice time or even end up being the 13th forward. I’m guessing that he’s a likely but not certain addition to the WJC team at this point.
Here’s something I wrote about Ikonen, Järveläinen and Haapala three weeks ago after watching some of the action from Sundsvall for the 2nd time:

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Ville Järveläinen was more visible at the latest U20 tournament than Juuso Ikonen. That doesn't necessarily mean that he was the better player, but he certainly stood out more on the ice. It's only one tournament and Järveläinen is even smaller than Ikonen, but I guess we can't rule him out entirely.
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My belief is that Haapala makes the team, and I prefer him over J.Ikonen.
I’ve followed the U20 team fairly extensively this season and in the end the exclusion of Juuso Ikonen wasn’t a big surprise for me. The thing that surprises me is how worked up some people are about this, he wasn’t indispensable or crucial to this team. Barkov, Armia, Teräväinen, Ma.Granlund, Salomäki, Aaltonen and Lehkonen are definitely ahead in the depth chart for top roles. The rest is more about finding working line combos and the right guys for lesser roles, short handed play and the 4th line. Ikonen isn’t a bad player, far from it, he just wasn’t the best option for the coaches, simple as that. There’s no conspiracy or favouritism behind this.

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12-21-2012, 04:27 PM
  #324
FiLe
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Originally Posted by Gaps View Post
I don't think this combination will be much better than the one they used in Thursday's game. IMO the biggest issue was already visible then and Järveläinen isn't the solution. Teräväinen is very talented and Aaltonen is a good player, and they can probably develop chemistry rather quickly, but they need someone to make space for them. It's not even about the physical size as much as it's about the style of play. At this point I'd be willing to try just about every single 4th line contender there.
Yeah, I don't exactly see it as an ideal combination either. But the team management may think along those lines, and I don't really find it easy to argue with them either.

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If they totally blow it tomorrow, I think the smartest choice would be to cut Järveläinen.
Would be my choice as well. If the line doesn't work and requires some size, Järveläinen doesn't make much sense as a 13th forward, who needs to be someone who can easily be used to patch any holes in the regular lineup if necessary. Leino is far more versatile and therefore suited for that.


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I’ve followed the U20 team fairly extensively this season and in the end the exclusion of Juuso Ikonen wasn’t a big surprise for me. The thing that surprises me is how worked up some people are about this, he wasn’t indispensable or crucial to this team. Barkov, Armia, Teräväinen, Ma.Granlund, Salomäki, Aaltonen and Lehkonen are definitely ahead in the depth chart for top roles. The rest is more about finding working line combos and the right guys for lesser roles, short handed play and the 4th line. Ikonen isn’t a bad player, far from it, he just wasn’t the best option for the coaches, simple as that. There’s no conspiracy or favouritism behind this.
Finally, someone who saw the same things I did.

Ikonen was never going to be a key player for this team, especially with everyone healthy. Even if Haapala wouldn't be given one of the top-six slots next to Barkov, Teräväinen would have been the next choice, making Ikonen still a third line utility forward at best. And given his showings after Lake Placid, he just wasn't going to cut it there.

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12-21-2012, 04:39 PM
  #325
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I didn't see that yesterday. Scheifele's goal was an easy one.
Funny, I did. But then again, I do remember more than just the stuff that makes the highlight reels. Given your commentary here, sir, I'm not so sure if same can be said of you.

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Well we'll see how it works out tomorrow. I'd just be pissed if/when Teräväinen makes filthy passes that Barkov and Lehkonen would bury 99% of the time and Aaltonen/Järveläinen whiff the puck.
Nice to way to hate on players thanks to some personal myopia and/or lack of knowledge.

First of all, Aaltonen's role has never been to be the finisher. He's the Niko Kapanen-type solid two-way centre who covers his linemates' backs and sets them up when given the chance.

Second of all, a little newsflash: Järveläinen has perhaps been the most consistent finisher in the U20 games played this year. 7 games, 5+1. And it is exactly the reason Rindell still drags him along. No coach can afford to overlook a guy who scores in pretty much every game he plays, no matter whatever kind of prestige he lacks or undersized hobbit he is.


Yes, they may still tank, but saying "player X or player Y" would do better with them simply because they've been in the headlines more or have better overall score in NHL 13 or whatever is just the root of all stupidity.

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Which team has their arguably second best winger and most dynamic player on teh ****ing third line?

The Finnish ****ing national team, that's who.
Counter-rant: Teh Finnish ****ing national team has the best winger in teh ****ing third line if they figure placing him there is good for teh whole ****ing team. They have two solid lines in Salomäki-Granlund-Armia and Haapala-Barkov-Lehkonen that are just oozing chemistry. Now, somebody here says that Teräväinen should play in stead of Granlund, another says he should replace Haapala. And why? To make the team better? The line better? No, they argue it because in their mind it would make Teräväinen better. So in other words, they wanna put a single player ahead of a whole team, because he would just magically make things better or something. Get a grip.


Last edited by FiLe: 12-21-2012 at 04:58 PM.
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