Not sure he'd be a guy we trade for, but I think he's very much a TNSE type of guy when FA opens up. I think if we don't resign Ponikarovsky (or Antropov, although I'm hoping we do), Clowe would be a great option to explore. I think he provides good versatility being able to play top 6 or bottom 6 and either wing.
If we did have to trade for him what do you think it would take? With Boyle's career winding to a close within the next few years and Burns (and possibly Demers) as the lone offensive backend options for the sharks, this looks like a good deal to swing Postma in.
Not sure he'd be a guy we trade for, but I think he's very much a TNSE type of guy when FA opens up. I think if we don't resign Ponikarovsky (or Antropov, although I'm hoping we do), Clowe would be a great option to explore. I think he provides good versatility being able to play top 6 or bottom 6 and either wing.
If we did have to trade for him what do you think it would take? With Boyle's career winding to a close within the next few years and Burns (and possibly Demers) as the lone offensive backend options for the sharks, this looks like a good deal to swing Postma in.
Eh...I don't know.
I'd rather just trade for Crosby, he's off to a slow start. It's pretty safe to say that his time in Puttsburgh is almost up. I think he could use a serious change of scenery. I've heard alot of people are calling him a bust and washed up now
I like the critique. I like to know what Winnipeg fans think. I used to live in Winterpeg, great town except the mosquitoes but otherwise, some of the best fans around. I love to hear the arena jumping! That being said, I also appreciate that fans double down on the players they like. I dislike our D - top to bottom, with the exceptions of Bogo and the current play of Postma and Stuart (who is beginning to show some age). Otherwise, the rest could go. I like a D that plays D. I like forwards that check and/or score.
Otherwise, we can agree to disagree, I'm not worried about that - it's why these blogs are fun, as long as no one is stroking out
I'd rather just trade for Crosby, he's off to a slow start. It's pretty safe to say that his time in Puttsburgh is almost up. I think he could use a serious change of scenery. I've heard alot of people are calling him a bust and washed up now
I like the critique. I like to know what Winnipeg fans think. I used to live in Winterpeg, great town except the mosquitoes but otherwise, some of the best fans around. I love to hear the arena jumping! That being said, I also appreciate that fans double down on the players they like. I dislike our D - top to bottom, with the exceptions of Bogo and the current play of Postma and Stuart (who is beginning to show some age). Otherwise, the rest could go. I like a D that plays D. I like forwards that check and/or score.
Otherwise, we can agree to disagree, I'm not worried about that - it's why these blogs are fun, as long as no one is stroking out
This is the thinking I don't understand. Enstrom is fantastic defensively, but somehow because he's small and puts up offensive numbers he's not?
It's the same thing as when people say Erik Karlsson is bad defensively. He's not either, he has phenomenal eye-hand coordination and similar to Enstrom is elite at separating skaters from pucks with his stick. This is where I think people overrate checking.
Take Stuart for example. He'll throw the body 9 times out of 10, but he's a far cry from Enstrom defensively. The body check doesn't always separate the skater from the puck and is therefore fairly useless. Maybe a little more useless as it can often put you out of position.
This is the thinking I don't understand. Enstrom is fantastic defensively, but somehow because he's small and puts up offensive numbers he's not?
It's the same thing as when people say Erik Karlsson is bad defensively. He's not either, he has phenomenal eye-hand coordination and similar to Enstrom is elite at separating skaters from pucks with his stick. This is where I think people overrate checking.
Take Stuart for example. He'll throw the body 9 times out of 10, but he's a far cry from Enstrom defensively. The body check doesn't always separate the skater from the puck and is therefore fairly useless. Maybe a little more useless as it can often put you out of position.
This is true. Guys like Numminen and Lidstrom were never heavy checkers, but they were positionally sound, and/or had great footwork, and/or had great stickwork.
This is true. Guys like Numminen and Lidstrom were never heavy checkers, but they were positionally sound, and/or had great footwork, and/or had great stickwork.
Another current player, though often overlooked and who I think is actually a perfect comparison to Enstrom (i believe it's been brought up before) is Kimmo Timonen.
the "if he's putting up offence he can't be defensive" mentality is just wrong. Its not about opinions, it's factually inaccurate.
Not sure he'd be a guy we trade for, but I think he's very much a TNSE type of guy when FA opens up. I think if we don't resign Ponikarovsky (or Antropov, although I'm hoping we do), Clowe would be a great option to explore. I think he provides good versatility being able to play top 6 or bottom 6 and either wing.
If we did have to trade for him what do you think it would take? With Boyle's career winding to a close within the next few years and Burns (and possibly Demers) as the lone offensive backend options for the sharks, this looks like a good deal to swing Postma in.
I was thinking this exact thing last night watching the Sharks game, I can't see them trading him, not this year when they are looking to make a final run. But as a UFA the Jets can afford to match pretty much any contract offer he gets and I really like what he brings. Plus hes a RH shot and he has years of playoff experience. I do like Antro but given their similar ages I would rather see the Jets take that money and go after Clowe if hes interested in coming over, just think he brings more to the roster.
I was thinking this exact thing last night watching the Sharks game, I can't see them trading him, not this year when they are looking to make a final run. But as a UFA the Jets can afford to match pretty much any contract offer he gets and I really like what he brings. Plus hes a RH shot and he has years of playoff experience. I do like Antro but given their similar ages I would rather see the Jets take that money and go after Clowe if hes interested in coming over, just think he brings more to the roster.
I like the critique. I like to know what Winnipeg fans think. I used to live in Winterpeg, great town except the mosquitoes but otherwise, some of the best fans around. I love to hear the arena jumping! That being said, I also appreciate that fans double down on the players they like. I dislike our D - top to bottom, with the exceptions of Bogo and the current play of Postma and Stuart (who is beginning to show some age). Otherwise, the rest could go. I like a D that plays D. I like forwards that check and/or score.
Otherwise, we can agree to disagree, I'm not worried about that - it's why these blogs are fun, as long as no one is stroking out
WARNING... long... but good
You (and anyone else) can like what you want to like and don't ever let any of us tell you what to like... BUT, that being said...
You (and anyone else) can be wrong about things (example: Enstrom is a 2way-D not O-D, Hainsey was an O-D but is now a more defensive D (defensive does not necessarily mean physical))... And, in the end, all that matters it out-scoring your opponent, not how you do it.
But fine... I'll break it down again (you can click each name to get a very detailed breakdown on each player if you wish)...
I like how our D make up will look like when Bogosian returns.
1st Pairing: Enstrom-Byfuglien
*Byfuglien: 5th highest even strength scorer, 6th highest PP scorer per minute of ice-time. Byfuglien faces tough match-ups and usually get's pushed into the offensive zone. Last season he out-chances his opponents 8.53/60min which is 18th highest in NHL... he predominately out-chances his opponents by creating offense (while pushing the play forward and keeping it there) rather than decreasing their chances although he has improved in that sense (and Enstrom helps a lot too!). Byfuglien also has an extremely high takeaway rate for a defenseman.
*Enstrom: 18th highest even strength scorer, 28th highest PP scorer (although in top 20 for goals) per minute of ice-time. Last season he out-chanced opponents by 11.18/60min which is 9th highest in NHL... unlike Byfuglien, Enstrom is more of a 2-way player in he out-chances his opponents by both creating offense and reducing the other teams opportunities.
*Together as a pair they work very similar to that of Suter and Weber... and actually were more successful as a pair then those two (although, those two basically carried the entire weight, while Enstrom and Byfuglien split the weight between them and the second pair).
2nd Pair: Hainsey - Bogosian
*Bogosian: 8th highest even strength scoring defensemen per minute in the NHL. While Bogosian gets out-chanced by 0.91/60min (65th in NHL), looking only at D who match against top6 and have more Dzone starts than Ozone starts, he's 24th in the league there (Weber is 23rd).
*Hainsey: no longer an offensive Dman (110th in even strength scoring), he has changed his game to more defensive. In the same list of D as Bogosian was 24th in, Hainsey is 31st with being out-chanced 3.36/60mins. Hainsey is obviously the weak link in the Jets' top4 but a he is still an average #4 and an average shutdown defensemen... he's also paid on average for 2nd pairing guy at 3mil.
*Zach is the puck carrier and distributer of this pair while Hainsey is the more stay-at-home guy.
Third Pair: Stuart - Postma
*Stuart: He scored and was out-chanced at almost an identical rate as Hainsey, but unlike Hainsey his zone starts and competition matchups were much easier... Stuart brings the compete and physicality that the fanboys crave and love.
*Postma: crazy good offensive instincts, nice skating and a wicked shot... but liability in his own end.
*One offensive and one defensive, they both would thrive playing in a sheltered role against predominately bottom6 players where Stuart won't get dangled around when he tries to hit/block and Postma can take advantage.
So basically we have two #1s, an elite #2 and a #4 in our top4... terrible. Our bottom pair is a lil' more weak with what I'd say is a #6 and #7. Our problem is that as soon as we lose one top4 we're a tad screwed (see ~80% of last season). Our D is like Carolina's forwards: crazy good top6 but no depth... it's fine when we have everyone healthy but can be exposed when injuries occur...
Personally I'm fine with that because in the long term I think Redmond/Postma may develop into 4/5 tweeners and Trouba... we'll see about him. I would like to find an improvement on Hainsey though.
Clowe would be a really good UFA pickup at first thought. RW that can move, is big and can finish. No star but a similar player to Ladd in that he can be a great complimentary player in the top six. Can play both wings if I'm not mistaken.
We'd still obviously be missing that elite #1 center, but he'd be a playoff tested veteran that can score to add to the lineup.
Clowe would be a really good UFA pickup at first thought. RW that can move, is big and can finish. No star but a similar player to Ladd in that he can be a great complimentary player in the top six. Can play both wings if I'm not mistaken.
We'd still obviously be missing that elite #1 center, but he'd be a playoff tested veteran that can score to add to the lineup.
I just think he's exactly what Chevy and Noel want (aside from age). North/South player that can crash, bang, score, and drop the mitts when he needs to.
*Hainsey: no longer an offensive Dman (110th in even strength scoring), he has changed his game to more defensive.
The part i don't necessarily agree with Hainsey being a solid top 4 is he, imo, doesn't use his body to pin a player along the boards or get position on a player. He is more a shot blocking type dman who still believes he can jump into the rush a little bit.
That said, he's played pretty well on the past road trip, so i will give him props for that. Even Lidstrom had the size to pin opposing players, and was hard to get around.
If polled, i'm sure Hainsey's name wouldn't be too high on the 'dmen that are hard to play against' list. I'd like to see that more in our top 4. Now Enstrom - like Karlsson or J Schultz - might be on that list, as they move the puck so quickly, they likely aren't fun to play against.
Edit: And we know Trouba (when he arrives), Bogo and Buff would likely be on that list as well.
The part i don't necessarily agree with Hainsey being a solid top 4 is he, imo, doesn't use his body to pin a player along the boards or get position on a player. He is more a shot blocking type dman who still believes he can jump into the rush a little bit.
That said, he's played pretty well on the past road trip, so i will give him props for that. Even Lidstrom had the size to pin opposing players, and was hard to get around.
If polled, i'm sure Hainsey's name wouldn't be too high on the 'dmen that are hard to play against' list. I'd like to see that more in our top 4. Now Enstrom - like Karlsson or J Schultz - might be on that list, as they move the puck so quickly, they likely aren't fun to play against.
Edit: And we know Trouba (when he arrives), Bogo and Buff would likely be on that list as well.
I don't look at technique because that's more about preference... I prefer effectiveness...
If you look at all defensemen regulars in the NHL (221... ~7 per a team) on average he'd be:
3rd in competition levels
2nd in difficulty of offensive zone starts
...so difficulty level-wise he is well above average...
4th in shot differentials (or out-chancing opponents)
2nd in plus/minus per ice-time
6th in points per min
... averages out 4th on most teams even though some of the people ahead of him in results had easier usage
If you just look at "shutdown" defensemen, ie: they mostly lined up on top6 guys and have more D-zone starts than O-zone, in the NHL (84 in total... ~3 per a team) he'd be:
2nd in competition levels
2nd in zone start difficulty
... average difficulty even for shutdown D
2nd in points per min
1st in shot differentials (or out-chancing opponents)
1st in +/- per 60
... so for shutdown D he has above average results with average difficulty
And that's why even if you don't think Hainsey is "hard to play against" he still gets top4 results... which is really what matters... although having both is best (yay for Trouba!)
So basically we have two #1s, an elite #2 and a #4 in our top4... terrible. Our bottom pair is a lil' more weak with what I'd say is a #6 and #7. Our problem is that as soon as we lose one top4 we're a tad screwed (see ~80% of last season). Our D is like Carolina's forwards: crazy good top6 but no depth... it's fine when we have everyone healthy but can be exposed when injuries occur...
Personally I'm fine with that because in the long term I think Redmond/Postma may develop into 4/5 tweeners and Trouba... we'll see about him. I would like to find an improvement on Hainsey though.
That *was* long
But I'll highlight this, because I agree wholeheartedly. IMO, this is what Chevy needs to address to get this team to the next level.
I think you can always find depth guys to fill out the forward corps but this team is being built from the back-end out.
I like the fact we are trying to build a team that can handle the grind of the playoffs for when we eventually get to that level. As opposed to a team built on finesse that is sure to get to the dance on high end talent but has trouble with the tougher teams.
The thing with Trouba is he won't be in camp until the Jets are pretty well 100 percent sure he'll make it. Even coming to camp makes hin ineligible to play NCAA. I think he'll play 2 years of college before Jets will give him the invite.
The thing with Trouba is he won't be in camp until the Jets are pretty well 100 percent sure he'll make it. Even coming to camp makes hin ineligible to play NCAA. I think he'll play 2 years of college before Jets will give him the invite.
I believe the rule is that they can attend camp, but only for a total of 48 hours spent in the city (IIRC) and the player must pay all of their own expenses (travel, food, lodging). So, he can attend training camp for 2 days only each season - until he leaves college.
I believe the rule is that they can attend camp, but only for a total of 48 hours spent in the city (IIRC) and the player must pay all of their own expenses (travel, food, lodging). So, he can attend training camp for 2 days only each season - until he leaves college.
Sounds to me like a perfect way to have kids choose between education and hockey way too early. Make them choose between either see if they have a chance to make the team (and having to quit college) or stay in college until there is no way he isn't ready / graduates.
