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Luongo: the continuing saga ...

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12-05-2012, 11:31 AM
  #401
ACC1224
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Now we are back to my point...a 1 for 1 deal won't work for multiple reasons.
Perhaps on it's own but there may be other moves triggered by it to offset Cap.

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12-05-2012, 11:33 AM
  #402
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What news?


What Cox said the Leafs offered, what Gillis' demands apparently are (laughable is what they are, if true)

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12-05-2012, 11:36 AM
  #403
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What Cox said the Leafs offered, what Gillis' demands apparently are (laughable is what they are, if true)
It does seem like most info is just regurgitated.

I'm only here for the entertainment. Lots of good laughs in these threads.

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12-05-2012, 11:41 AM
  #404
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The mere fact that Luo would be willing to waive his NTC to play in Toronto (a team that hasn't played a post-season game in nearly 10 years) is reason alone to not want him.

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12-05-2012, 11:46 AM
  #405
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I would think Bozak and a pick would be more desirable for them as it gives them more cap space.
I agree and think he would be included. It makes a lot of sense.

However I think what makes most sense and I don't think either side wants to hear it is a futures package for Lu.

The pro's basically being IF TO does not lose a roster player and pick up Luongo, they are suddenly in place where they can win now. I honestly don't know how you couldn't be. You would need more depth to be a true contender, but won (yes that was suppose to be spelled that way) thing at a time.

For us, it is about balance, and in order to stay strong we have to do two things, manage our cap, and get back what really is one of our bigest weaknesses our prospect pool.

I think the cap will come down, and we can't afford to re-sign our players and bring in another big ticket at this moment. We should look to replace some of what we have with cheap contracts and ELC's.

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12-05-2012, 11:50 AM
  #406
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
I agree and think he would be included. It makes a lot of sense.

However I think what makes most sense and I don't think either side wants to hear it is a futures package for Lu.

The pro's basically being IF TO does not lose a roster player and pick up Luongo, they are suddenly in place where they can win now. I honestly don't know how you couldn't be. You would need more depth to be a true contender, but won (yes that was suppose to be spelled that way) thing at a time.

For us, it is about balance, and in order to stay strong we have to do two things, manage our cap, and get back what really is one of our bigest weaknesses our prospect pool.

I think the cap will come down, and we can't afford to re-sign our players and bring in another big ticket at this moment. We should look to replace some of what we have with cheap contracts and ELC's.
Some Toronto fans could care less about winnign anything right now. Some of us want to do a proper rebuild - assemble a competiive core - then when we have enough organizational depth we can start surrounding them with players of Luo's age/caliber. Were not there yet.

Right now adding Luo to this roster may take us from finishing 28th-25th to 23-18th
No thanks.

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12-05-2012, 11:51 AM
  #407
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
The mere fact that Luo would be willing to waive his NTC to play in Toronto (a team that hasn't played a post-season game in nearly 10 years) is reason alone to not want him.
I guess you didn't want to sign Brad Richards before he signed with the Rags... nearly 9 years since the team played in the post season and he had them in his top 2 choices to sign with is reason alone to not want him right?

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12-05-2012, 11:52 AM
  #408
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Why would Vancouver want Grabo?

They deep at C - Grabo too small to play a shutdown roll on 3rd/4th lines.
Sedin - Kesler - Grabovski down the middle is scary for the rest of the West.
Grabo would be great as the #3C, he has shown he can carry a line with tweener wingers while playing the tough match ups.

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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
You would do Grabo straight up?
+ a non 1st round pick. Hoping for a 2nd but would be ok with a 3rd.

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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
I would think Bozak and a pick would be more desirable for them as it gives them more cap space.
The better player would be more desirable. Cap space only helps if we use it.

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12-05-2012, 11:52 AM
  #409
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
Some Toronto fans could care less about winnign anything right now. Some of us want to do a proper rebuild - assemble a competiive core - then when we have enough organizational depth we can start surrounding them with players of Luo's age/caliber. Were not there yet.

Right now adding Luo to this roster may take us from finishing 28th-25th to 23-18th
No thanks.
You think Burke is thinking that way as well? Just tank?

And the Leafs would make the playoffs with Luongo. They were a playoff team for most of last year until their goaltending collapsed.

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12-05-2012, 11:54 AM
  #410
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
Some Toronto fans could care less about winnign anything right now. Some of us want to do a proper rebuild - assemble a competiive core - then when we have enough organizational depth we can start surrounding them with players of Luo's age/caliber.

Right now adding Luo to this roster may take us from finishing 28th-25th to 23-18th
No thanks.
Your thinking is flawed on two levels.

For every Pens, Hawks there is a NYI or CBJ building through the draft is needed, but no way does it work out for every team that tries it.

Second, if you fail to start making headway there is absolutly no way you keep your current stars, you will have to replace them and thus never get your depth. no one want to be on a losing team.


If you turn the tides now, it is a short term of pain, but it may be far away, and you may be able to ease it by being a desirable place for free agents to go. IMO you have done your 5 years of lets get prospects, now is the time to start to win.

For the record that does not have to be with Lui, but we are talking about him so...

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12-05-2012, 11:55 AM
  #411
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The better player would be more desirable. Cap space only helps if we use it.
That would be the idea.

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12-05-2012, 11:58 AM
  #412
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
That would be the idea.
Like I said earlier, I think the cap is coming down, and it is already used on Edler...

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12-05-2012, 11:59 AM
  #413
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I guess you didn't want to sign Brad Richards before he signed with the Rags... nearly 9 years since the team played in the post season and he had them in his top 2 choices to sign with is reason alone to not want him right?
Nope. UFA's and Toronto right now are not a good fit. The only UFA's that would be interested in signing with Toronto are interested in $$$ - not winning. Toronto is too comfortable.


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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
You think Burke is thinking that way as well? Just tank?

And the Leafs would make the playoffs with Luongo. They were a playoff team for most of last year until their goaltending collapsed.
No Burke is under the pressure of his own self-imposed deadlines. The whole "I don't beleive in 5 year rebuilds" Which is why he should be removed before he causes any more long term damage to the organization.

The Leafs record after the month of November was 26-43 ... not exactly what I'd call playoff Hockey.

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12-05-2012, 12:00 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
That would be the idea.
We currently have no players to use the cap space on.

99% of the Canucks fans want to trade Luongo for an upgrade in secondary scoring. I don't get how other fans think it's for cap space. The difference between Luongo and a backup is 4M at best...basically a Ballard. Hell letting Manny and Raymond walk and replacing them with cheaper players frees up ~4M as well.

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12-05-2012, 12:03 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
Your thinking is flawed on two levels.

For every Pens, Hawks there is a NYI or CBJ building through the draft is needed, but no way does it work out for every team that tries it.

Second, if you fail to start making headway there is absolutly no way you keep your current stars, you will have to replace them and thus never get your depth. no one want to be on a losing team.


If you turn the tides now, it is a short term of pain, but it may be far away, and you may be able to ease it by being a desirable place for free agents to go. IMO you have done your 5 years of lets get prospects, now is the time to start to win.

For the record that does not have to be with Lui, but we are talking about him so...
You're logic is cute. However in 5 seasons of being a Bottom 10 team - 2 out of the last 4 we were a lottery pick team. And our prospect pool is ranked 18th out of 30 in the entire NHL. We have 1 elite prospect in Morgan Reilly and the rest top out as 2nd/3rd liners at best.

The easiest way to acquire elite talent free of charge is through the draft.

We've recently lost a Franchise #1C (Sequin) ... and Franchise #1D (Hamilton) ... a Franchise #1G (Rask). The least of this organizations concerns should be trading more futures for a Vet Goalie on a sweetheart retirement contract.

Just my 2cents.

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12-05-2012, 12:05 PM
  #416
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You're logic is cute. However in 5 seasons of being a Bottom 10 team - 2 out of the last 4 we were a lottery pick team. And our prospect pool is ranked 18th out of 30 in the entire NHL. We have 1 elite prospect in Morgan Reilly and the rest top out as 2nd/3rd liners at best.

The easiest way to acquire elite talent free of charge is through the draft.

We've recently lost a Franchise #1C (Sequin) ... and Franchise #1D (Hamilton) ... a Franchise #1G (Rask). The least of this organizations concerns should be trading more futures for a Vet Goalie on a sweetheart retirement contract.

Just my 2cents.
That vet goalie is the only goalie with a thick enough skin to thrive in your city. He's also the answer to getting into the playoffs for your team. But, hey, I can see how you don't want the deal to go through. After being so abused as a leafs fan for so many years, a different outcome is foreign and scary. Playoffs?! nooooooooooooooo.

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12-05-2012, 12:06 PM
  #417
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
We currently have no players to use the cap space on.

99% of the Canucks fans want to trade Luongo for an upgrade in secondary scoring. I don't get how other fans think it's for cap space. The difference between Luongo and a backup is 4M at best...basically a Ballard. Hell letting Manny and Raymond walk and replacing them with cheaper players frees up ~4M as well.
But the 2013-14 season will see a drop in Cap. We currently have 55 mil or so tide up n 13 players. removing Lui, and adding Grabo actually adds to our cap. We would need to let Manny Raymond and Ballard all go for nothing. (letting go of Ballard brings us to 12 players signed).

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12-05-2012, 12:09 PM
  #418
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
You're logic is cute. However in 5 seasons of being a Bottom 10 team - 2 out of the last 4 we were a lottery pick team. And our prospect pool is ranked 18th out of 30 in the entire NHL. We have 1 elite prospect in Morgan Reilly and the rest top out as 2nd/3rd liners at best.

The easiest way to acquire elite talent free of charge is through the draft.

We've recently lost a Franchise #1C (Sequin) ... and Franchise #1D (Hamilton) ... a Franchise #1G (Rask). The least of this organizations concerns should be trading more futures for a Vet Goalie on a sweetheart retirement contract.

Just my 2cents.
And in two more years you will still have 1 elite prospect, and then no #1 dman, no #1 Winger, and who ever else decides to leave as well. Look players rarely stick around for multi rebuilds. You have to trend up.

PS: Thanks for calling me cute, but I have been told I am more hot.

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12-05-2012, 12:13 PM
  #419
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But the 2013-14 season will see a drop in Cap. We currently have 55 mil or so tide up n 13 players. removing Lui, and adding Grabo actually adds to our cap. We would need to let Manny Raymond and Ballard all go for nothing. (letting go of Ballard brings us to 12 players signed).
I doubt the cap drops that drastically. Regardless Gillis should take the superior player even if we can only afford him for 1 season.

Hypothetically speaking we can acquire Grabovski, play him for a season and flip him the next off season for a futures package if the cap drops that much.

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12-05-2012, 12:13 PM
  #420
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How about Kessel, Grabovski, Reilly and the 1st in 2013 + 1st in 2014? Bottom-20 protected of course.


Paging reality. Look, I don't mind a fair price, but Luongo is most certainly not worth what is essentially FIVE first round draft picks. Get serious.

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12-05-2012, 12:16 PM
  #421
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That vet goalie is the only goalie with a thick enough skin to thrive in your city. He's also the answer to getting into the playoffs for your team. But, hey, I can see how you don't want the deal to go through. After being so abused as a leafs fan for so many years, a different outcome is foreign and scary. Playoffs?! nooooooooooooooo.
Yep. Can't say I'm interested in just making the playoffs - would rather build a contender and win the cup- Hell its been 10 years whats another 2-3 more?

Quote:
Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
And in two more years you will still have 1 elite prospect, and then no #1 dman, no #1 Winger, and who ever else decides to leave as well. Look players rarely stick around for multi rebuilds. You have to trend up.

PS: Thanks for calling me cute, but I have been told I am more hot.
Spinning wheels is what thats called. And is literally what Toronto has bene doing for decades.

This roster as is is a guaranteed lottery pick - you saying that MacKinnon/McDavid aren't elite prospects? And that the team would be better off not bothering with them - but instead focusing on acquiring the services of Luongo lol

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12-05-2012, 12:19 PM
  #422
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Yep. Can't say I'm interested in just making the playoffs - would rather build a contender and win the cup- Hell its been 10 years whats another 2-3 more?



Spinning wheels is what thats called. And is literally what Toronto has bene doing for decades. And its gotten them securely into the basement of league.

This roster as is is a guaranteed lottery pick - you saying that MacKinnon/McDavid don't aren't elite prospects? And that the team would be better off not bothering with them - but instead focusing on acquiring the services of Luongo lol
So why not trade away Phaneuf, Grabovski, Lupul, etc all for picks. By the time you are ready to compete they will be just leaving their primes. May as well get MOAR FUTURES before they walk to a team that is looking to have some semblance of competitiveness.

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12-05-2012, 12:19 PM
  #423
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Can't say I'm interested in just making the playoffs - would rather build a contender and win the cup- Hell its been 10 years whats another 2-3 more?
As a fan? Sure.
As a player? I don't know. If I'm Kessel/Phaneuf/Lupul and I'm an UFA I'd be pretty tempted to leave.

*save major overpayment

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12-05-2012, 12:23 PM
  #424
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So why not trade away Phaneuf, Grabovski, Lupul, etc all for picks. By the time you are ready to compete they will be just leaving their primes. May as well get MOAR FUTURES before they walk to a team that is looking to have some semblance of competitiveness.
Definitely. This will happen - and should happen.

What you don't do is trade futures - for another aging vet to add to your already aging core.
To be honest I'm not even interested in trading anything for a vet at this stage.

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12-05-2012, 12:24 PM
  #425
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Yep. Can't say I'm interested in just making the playoffs - would rather build a contender and win the cup- Hell its been 10 years whats another 2-3 more?



Spinning wheels is what thats called. And is literally what Toronto has bene doing for decades.

This roster as is is a guaranteed lottery pick - you saying that MacKinnon/McDavid aren't elite prospects? And that the team would be better off not bothering with them - but instead focusing on acquiring the services of Luongo lol
A legit contender? Gonna take more than 2 or 3 years for that if you don't get luongo. More around 5. The more long-term you want to think, the more planning is involved and burke doesn't seem to really give a damn about the future. Haven't the leafs been trying to build a team for ages? it hasn't happened. Get a legit star and let him become a legend in your city. Gotta start somewhere and it's probably better if your team goes on some miracle run as a lower seed. Luongo is your best chance at becoming a contender. How do you not understand that?

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