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Luongo: the continuing saga ...

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Old
12-05-2012, 12:25 PM
  #426
racerjoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
Yep. Can't say I'm interested in just making the playoffs - would rather build a contender and win the cup- Hell its been 10 years whats another 2-3 more?



Spinning wheels is what thats called. And is literally what Toronto has bene doing for decades.

This roster as is is a guaranteed lottery pick - you saying that MacKinnon/McDavid aren't elite prospects? And that the team would be better off not bothering with them - but instead focusing on acquiring the services of Luongo lol
No I don't think you guys are a lottery team, not another bottom 5 at least. If I were to geuss I would put you at drafting at number 10 with your curent lineup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
So why not trade away Phaneuf, Grabovski, Lupul, etc all for picks. By the time you are ready to compete they will be just leaving their primes. May as well get MOAR FUTURES before they walk to a team that is looking to have some semblance of competitiveness.
Exactly If you feel like you do, why not trade away these guys? They will definitely not still be with you when you are competitive.

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12-05-2012, 12:25 PM
  #427
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Some previous more sane offers suggested by Vancouver fans.

kthsn
Kulemin + Bozak +2nd for Luongo + Ballard.

Co Ho
2014 1st, Finn, Connolly +Kadri/Colborne = Luongo

Both deals aren't far off of being fair IMO, and likely about where things will end up.




According to @darenmillard as well as Pierre McGuire on TEAM 1040, it will be Kadri and Bozak for Luongo…” No additional draft picks... that is the deal according to them.

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Old
12-05-2012, 12:26 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
Definitely. This will happen - and should happen.

What you don't do is trade futures - for another aging vet to add to your already aging core.
To be honest I'm not even interested in trading anything for a vet at this stage.
This is very fair. If you believe this, I won't debate.

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Old
12-05-2012, 12:27 PM
  #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
Definitely. This will happen - and should happen.

What you don't do is trade futures - for another aging vet to add to your already aging core.
To be honest I'm not even interested in trading anything for a vet at this stage.
Well it depends. If Burke thinks the team is only a piece or two from legitimate contention, he might go fo it, and hope to attract high profile UFAs(Getzlaf? Zajac? Weiss?) by showing his commitment to doing well now.

But if you think the core is hopeless as is, and needs to be completely rebuilt, then I guess you should trade away a lot of your players.

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12-05-2012, 12:27 PM
  #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
Some previous more sane offers suggested by Vancouver fans.

kthsn
Kulemin + Bozak +2nd for Luongo + Ballard.

Co Ho
2014 1st, Finn, Connolly +Kadri/Colborne = Luongo

Both deals aren't far off of being fair IMO, and likely about where things will end up.




According to @darenmillard as well as Pierre McGuire on TEAM 1040, it will be Kadri and Bozak for Luongo…” No additional draft picks... that is the deal according to them.
Can we make that Raymond instead?

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Old
12-05-2012, 12:29 PM
  #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
Definitely. This will happen - and should happen.

What you don't do is trade futures - for another aging vet to add to your already aging core.
To be honest I'm not even interested in trading anything for a vet at this stage.
Yup....cause losing is the new winning.....we rock!!!

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12-05-2012, 12:29 PM
  #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Well it depends. If Burke thinks the team is only a piece or two from legitimate contention, he might go fo it, and hope to attract high profile UFAs(Getzlaf? Zajac? Weiss?) by showing his commitment to doing well now.

But if you think the core is hopeless as is, and needs to be completely rebuilt, then I guess you should trade away a lot of your players.
The proofs in the pudding.

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Old
12-05-2012, 12:30 PM
  #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
Some previous more sane offers suggested by Vancouver fans.

kthsn
Kulemin + Bozak +2nd for Luongo + Ballard.

Co Ho
2014 1st, Finn, Connolly +Kadri/Colborne = Luongo

Both deals aren't far off of being fair IMO, and likely about where things will end up.




According to @darenmillard as well as Pierre McGuire on TEAM 1040, it will be Kadri and Bozak for Luongo…” No additional draft picks... that is the deal according to them.
This actually isn't true, or at least was not said by either. It was from the super reputable source SamJam. Millard did mention that he had heard the names of Bazak and Kadri a few days earlier, but that is all. As far as we know, Mcguire never said any of this.

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12-05-2012, 12:32 PM
  #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Can we make that Raymond instead?
That "proposal" was actually me trying to find a TO equivalent of WIN's

Little + Antropov + 2nd for Luongo and Ballard

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Old
12-05-2012, 12:32 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Can we make that Raymond instead?
Because of earlier comments this might be one of my favorite lines in this thread.

FWIW I really think Raymond gets to much crap. He does lots very well, and if we had a more passs first center, he could be part of a very good second line. But with our curent lineup, I don't see where he fits.

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12-05-2012, 12:33 PM
  #436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
Some Toronto fans could care less about winnign anything right now. Some of us want to do a proper rebuild - assemble a competiive core - then when we have enough organizational depth we can start surrounding them with players of Luo's age/caliber. Were not there yet.

Right now adding Luo to this roster may take us from finishing 28th-25th to 23-18th
No thanks.
If that's the case, what do you want for Lupul from a future's perspective?

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12-05-2012, 12:35 PM
  #437
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If that's the case, what do you want for Lupul from a future's perspective?
That's his case, not realities.

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Old
12-05-2012, 12:37 PM
  #438
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This is just one Toronto fans honest assessment of the team.

Were not there. Were not even close. They need another 2-3 years of losing. Of drafting elite prospects. Of developing the stable they have now. Before they should even be thinking about adding a Luongo.

No offense I think he's a great talent - I think he would make the team a bubble playoff team overnight. But thats the ceiling.

Unfortunately I think he's already a Toronto Maple Leaf. I think Brian Burke is so desperate to maintain some semblance of his past reputation that he's willing to again mortgage the future for immediate gains. (See Kessel trade)

I wouldn't be surprised if he traded:

1. A protected 1st round pick
2. Tyler Bozak
3. Cody Franson

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Old
12-05-2012, 12:43 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
If that's the case, what do you want for Lupul from a future's perspective?
I'm of the minority in thinking that Lupul isn't very good. He had a great year - his value will never be higher IMO. A decent prospect is all I would require. I'm not educated on Vancouvers farm team but Kassian would be desireable.

Ron Wilsons system of "go and do whatever you want offensively" was a big contributer to Lupuls success. Kessel certainly didn't hurt. But just about anyone in the same position would have excelled.

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12-05-2012, 12:43 PM
  #440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
This is just one Toronto fans honest assessment of the team.

Were not there. Were not even close. They need another 2-3 years of losing. Of drafting elite prospects. Of developing the stable they have now. Before they should even be thinking about adding a Luongo.

No offense I think he's a great talent - I think he would make the team a bubble playoff team overnight. But thats the ceiling.

Unfortunately I think he's already a Toronto Maple Leaf. I think Brian Burke is so desperate to maintain some semblance of his past reputation that he's willing to again mortgage the future for immediate gains. (See Kessel trade)

I wouldn't be surprised if he traded:

1. A protected 1st round pick
2. Tyler Bozak
3. Cody Franson
I wouldn't be either seeing that is a bloody steal if he believes the team is good enough.

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12-05-2012, 12:51 PM
  #441
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I wish the Leafs had the Oilers roster. In fact, I wish Luongo was an Oiler. On the other hand, Dubnyk is pretty solid. That team is a darkhorse imo. With Eberle's magic, the sky is the limit for that team. They sure as hell have more pure offensive skill than the Canucks and they already beatdown the Blackhawks. They will be a scary team. Sorry, i went off-topic.

I just hope Luongo has a successful career wherever he goes and contributes to the team's success. Even if he went to TO, I'd be happy for toronto if they finally start doing well. The fans pay so much money for tickets that they deserve some success.

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12-05-2012, 01:15 PM
  #442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Can we make that Raymond instead?
Kulemin and Raymond are pretty much equals. So that's Bozak and a 2 for Luongo. Hell no!

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12-05-2012, 01:19 PM
  #443
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Kulemin and Raymond are pretty much equals. So that's Bozak and a 2 for Luongo. Hell no!
lol no. MacArthur and Raymond would be equals. Both have 1 yr left as well

Kulemin is actually an asset

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12-05-2012, 01:23 PM
  #444
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Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
lol no. MacArthur and Raymond would be equals. Both have 1 yr left as well

Kulemin is actually an asset
You realize that Raymond, in 15 fewer games last year, scored 3 more goals than Kulemin right? Kulemin isn't better just because people on here subscribe to groupthink and whatever they decide must be true. I prefer to look at what a player actually does. I've seen nothing from Kulemin that sets him far a part of Raymond.

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12-05-2012, 01:24 PM
  #445
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
You realize that Raymond, in 15 fewer games last year, scored 3 more goals than Kulemin right? Kulemin isn't better just because people on here subscribe to groupthink and whatever they decide must be true. I prefer to look at what a player actually does. I've seen nothing from Kulemin that sets him far a part of Raymond.
ok so if we're only looking at last year then let's do the same for Luongo. In that case his value is Bozak straight up

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12-05-2012, 01:25 PM
  #446
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Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
ok so if we're only looking at last year then let's do the same for Luongo. In that case his value is Bozak straight up

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12-05-2012, 01:25 PM
  #447
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
You realize that Raymond, in 15 fewer games last year, scored 3 more goals than Kulemin right? Kulemin isn't better just because people on here subscribe to groupthink and whatever they decide must be true. I prefer to look at what a player actually does. I've seen nothing from Kulemin that sets him far a part of Raymond.
30 goals and 60 points the year before?

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12-05-2012, 01:28 PM
  #448
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Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
ok so if we're only looking at last year then let's do the same for Luongo. In that case his value is Bozak straight up
Technically that would be 2011, you know, where he was a Vezina nominee and third best goalie overall.

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12-05-2012, 01:29 PM
  #449
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
30 goals and 60 points the year before?
With an unsustainably high shooting percentage. Raymond also has a 25 goal, 53 point season to his name. I don't see either player reaching the numbers of their career years.

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12-05-2012, 01:29 PM
  #450
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ok so if we're only looking at last year then let's do the same for Luongo. In that case his value is Bozak straight up
How so? If we're looking just at stats, which you and y2kC did with Raymond vs. Kulemin/MacArthur, then Luongo is down slightly in terms of stats during the regular season, but still higher then average, and his short stint this year in the playoffs, even "losing his job" as you've put it several times, is better then his average.

So where does Bozak come into this? If anything, Luongo should be MORE valuable then usual of late because of his numbers.

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