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Luongo: the continuing saga ...

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Old
12-05-2012, 06:14 PM
  #576
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Franson was 6th in TOI, behind Komisarek/Schenn/everyone else.
Franson had the 6th easiest zone starts.
He had the worst zone finishes, even behind Jay Rosehill.

He's barely a bottom pairing defenseman on a lottery team.


So Luongo is traded for a tweener winger/#3C? It's too bad Gillis hasn't shown the ability to get those pieces for mid round draft picks even with no cap space.


Explain. None of TO's pieces will be the difference between an acquisition or not. Anything we receive we can offer more value internally (ie Jensen instead of Ashton).


(I hope you get it).
What about his time in Nashville on a great defense where he had a bigger role?

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12-05-2012, 06:19 PM
  #577
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
When's the last time we had $9 mil tied up in two expendable players?
Expendable because of superior depth. They should only be dealt if it makes our team stronger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Why should teams even bother filling holes on their roster(like RD, 3C, RW) if it could cause chemistry issues?
You don't seem to understand. New players take a while to adjust to the Canucks, especially defensemen. Ballard is still adjusting. Gragnani couldn't adjust.

It took Alberts 1+ season, Hamhuis was lost in the beginning too. Bringing in many new faces is also a hassle on the coaches who may not know how to use them properly. You think Kadri is going to be allowed rookie mistakes? Internally bring up players like Schroeder is great because Chicago plays a very similar style (by design).

On top of chemistry issues there's also the very harsh travel schedule.

It's the exact reason why Gillis prefers to do his dealing before the season and not at the deadline. Even if we acquire Perry he probably won't be 100% comfortable until the next season starts.

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Old
12-05-2012, 06:22 PM
  #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Van
Bozak
Kadri
1st 2013 (top 10 protected otherwise becomes 2014 1st)

Tor
Luongo
3rd 2013

Best deal I would make. Can't go much lower when dealing for star player.
Take out the picks from both sides, add a 2nd from Toronto's end. I don't think Toronto will be giving up a very good prospect AND a 1st round pick in the same deal. Playing the role an arm chaired GM of course.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Do you watch him play or are you just saying that? Phaneuf, Gunnarsson, Liles, Gardiner were better than him last year. If any of those guys were on our bottom pairing, we would be a stacked team. Franson is a perfectly capable defenseman to be used in a 5-6 role, 2nd PP specialist..
First time I think I have agreed with you.

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12-05-2012, 06:22 PM
  #579
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
I agree with the first part, and I wish to add "minus Luongo" to the second part. He's still a leader on this team.
He's also a lightning rod for criticism, I wonder who the next whipping boy could be.

For all the great things Gillis has done if the Luongo trade is disappointing I can see the fans turn on him, especially if Luongo prospers in TO.

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Old
12-05-2012, 06:23 PM
  #580
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What about his time in Nashville on a great defense where he had a bigger role?
Sheltered. I don't remember him on the PK at all in Nashville.

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Old
12-05-2012, 06:24 PM
  #581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Expendable because of superior depth. They should only be dealt if it makes our team stronger.
Yes, and replacing Ballard with Franson is not much of a downgrade at all, while adding, let's say 60 points to our lineup(being extremely conservative on Bozak + Kadri's production) as well as making us better off to go after top-6 help, makes us a better team imo.

Quote:
You don't seem to understand. New players take a while to adjust to the Canucks, especially defensemen. Ballard is still adjusting. Gragnani couldn't adjust.

It took Alberts 1+ season, Hamhuis was lost in the beginning too. Brining in many new faces is also a hassle on the coaches who may not know how to use them properly. You think Kadri is going to be allowed rookie mistakes? Internally bring up players like Schroeder is great because Chicago plays a very similar style (by design).

On top of chemistry issues there's also the very harsh travel schedule.

It's the exact reason why Gillis prefers to do his dealing before the season and not at the deadline. Even if we acquire Perry he probably won't be 100% comfortable until the next season starts.
And yet you somehow think that adding all these talented players to fill holes in our lineup, even if they're "uncomfortable" is a worse option than having Edler play his off side and doing nohing else?

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12-05-2012, 06:26 PM
  #582
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Sheltered. I don't remember him on the PK at all in Nashville.
He's not a shut down defenseman or a PK specialist. He can quarterback the 2nd PP unit and help provide some offense and size to our lineup. I'm not saying he's an incredible defenseman or anything. All I'm saying is that he'd be fine on the third pairing.

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12-05-2012, 06:26 PM
  #583
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
The mere fact that Luo would be willing to waive his NTC to play in Toronto (a team that hasn't played a post-season game in nearly 10 years) is reason alone to not want him.
and WHY haven't we made the playoffs? above all else GOALTENDING a position that lou happens to be very good at

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Old
12-05-2012, 06:48 PM
  #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
But you just said you would swap Ashton for 2nd right?

Then it would be

Van
Bozak
Kadri
2nd

Tor
Luongo
4th

Then I upgraded the 4th to a 3rd, and upgraded 2nd to 1st. To make it:

Van
Bozak
Kadri
1st (protected)

Tor
Luongo
3rd

Seems pretty close if you ask me

2nd/4th vs. 1st/3rd

I'm not sure what you are so scared about in regard to the 1st it is top 10 protected? What if we made it conditional on Toronto making playoffs, meaning it is now top 15 protected, otherwise deferred to 2014?
I understand your logic (it's a wee bit flawed as 1st round picks are substantally worth more) but if any team needs to hold on to their 1st's it's us.

I stand by my offer. You have to realize it's I who have been budging, you Vancouver fans stay firm and don't make it easy dealing with you.

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Old
12-05-2012, 06:53 PM
  #585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
But you just said you would swap Ashton for 2nd right?

Then it would be

Van
Bozak
Kadri
2nd

Tor
Luongo
4th

Then I upgraded the 4th to a 3rd, and upgraded 2nd to 1st. To make it:

Van
Bozak
Kadri
1st (protected)

Tor
Luongo
3rd

Seems pretty close if you ask me

2nd/4th vs. 1st/3rd

I'm not sure what you are so scared about in regard to the 1st it is top 10 protected? What if we made it conditional on Toronto making playoffs, meaning it is now top 15 protected, otherwise deferred to 2014?
Not bad, honestly, but we are still looking at a problem with salary cap from Toronto's end.

Would you be open to swapping Bozak for Connolly? Just out of curiosity?

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Old
12-05-2012, 06:55 PM
  #586
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
He's also a lightning rod for criticism, I wonder who the next whipping boy could be.

For all the great things Gillis has done if the Luongo trade is disappointing I can see the fans turn on him, especially if Luongo prospers in TO.
If Schneider gets injured and/or plays average and Lu does what he normally does, it's going to get ugly in Canucks nation. I still think Schneider is absolutely incredible though. I really hope he can play well for a long season/playoffs. I still don't think we'll finish as high as we have the past 2 seasons without our 2-headed monster in net. Those last 2 years will probably be our best regular seasons.

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Old
12-05-2012, 06:59 PM
  #587
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Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
Not bad, honestly, but we are still looking at a problem with salary cap from Toronto's end.

Would you be open to swapping Bozak for Connolly? Just out of curiosity?
Would you be willing to add someone like Holzer or Franson if we swapped Bozak for Connolly?

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Old
12-05-2012, 07:01 PM
  #588
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
I understand your logic (it's a wee bit flawed as 1st round picks are substantally worth more) but if any team needs to hold on to their 1st's it's us.

I stand by my offer. You have to realize it's I who have been budging, you Vancouver fans stay firm and don't make it easy dealing with you.
Well my other offers were

Lupul + 1st

Kulemin + Frattin + Colbourne +1st

So I think that I am moving too, but you have to remember you are starting very low on your offers. Canucks are trading a star player for what? Futures/spare pieces, not getting any substantial individual pieces.

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12-05-2012, 07:02 PM
  #589
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Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
Not bad, honestly, but we are still looking at a problem with salary cap from Toronto's end.

Would you be open to swapping Bozak for Connolly? Just out of curiosity?
If salary is an issued then if you would like to include Lombardi Canucks can take as cap dump.

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Old
12-05-2012, 07:07 PM
  #590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Would you be willing to add someone like Holzer or Franson if we swapped Bozak for Connolly?
Hmm...

Connolly + Kadri + Franson + 1st (top 10 protected)

for

Luongo + 3rd


???

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12-05-2012, 07:07 PM
  #591
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Originally Posted by sniper81 View Post
so the leafs take on over 9 million and give up roughly 1.5?
Um, no, the Canucks are keeping Ballard. The Leafs are taking on Luongo only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I remember reading somewhere that Edler didn't like playing on the right side. I can try looking it up somewhere, but forcing defensemen to play their off sides generally doesn't work out too well.
Edler was supposed to shift to the right when we got Ballard but at the end of the day, neither looked good on the right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
A 1st would't be involved if Kadri and Bozak were, unless Vancouver wanted to add something substantial.

You have your bottom line, so do I.

Either remove Kadri or Bozak from the equation and add the 1st if you like.
Kadri + Ashton + 1st + 2nd for Luongo

Value wise, it is very similar to your previous offer of, and we keep Ballard so you don't need to accept him as a dump.
Tyler Bozak (switched for 1st)
Nazem Kadri
Carter Ashton
Cody Franson (switched for 2nd)

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Old
12-05-2012, 07:09 PM
  #592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Would you be willing to add someone like Holzer or Franson if we swapped Bozak for Connolly?
Interesting...

What if we add Franson/Holzer, Vancouver removes the 3rd, and we downgrade the conditional 1st to two 2nds?

Effectively:

Connolly
Kadri
Franson/Holzer
2 X 2nds

For

Luongo

?

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12-05-2012, 07:10 PM
  #593
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Well my other offers were

Lupul + 1st

Kulemin + Frattin + Colbourne +1st

So I think that I am moving too, but you have to remember you are starting very low on your offers. Canucks are trading a star player for what? Futures/spare pieces, not getting any substantial individual pieces.
IMO, those were unrealistic offers.

Lupul was our 2nd best player last year and a 1st????

Kulemin had an off year but brings so much to the table, than you take our 2nd best prospect (Frattin) , and than our 4th best prospect (Colborne) and on top of that you want our 1st????


I based my offer on what was speculated recently.

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12-05-2012, 07:13 PM
  #594
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If salary is an issued then if you would like to include Lombardi Canucks can take as cap dump.
A good thought that might end up working.

To me Connolly might be a better fit though as he to me is a similar player to Bozak (slightly better overall assuming he stays healthy) but Bozak provides extra value to Toronto thanks to his chemistry with Kessel (useful in our never ending quest for a #1 center )

Nice thing for Vancouver is that either contract ends at the end of this season so that provides a bit of flexibility. I would assume Connolly would re-sign for cheaper next time around. You would prefer Lombardi as a cap dump though?

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Old
12-05-2012, 07:14 PM
  #595
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Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
Interesting...

What if we add Franson/Holzer, Vancouver removes the 3rd, and we downgrade the conditional 1st to two 2nds?

Effectively:

Connolly
Kadri
Franson/Holzer
2 X 2nds

For

Luongo

?
No to the downgrading to the 2nds.

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12-05-2012, 07:17 PM
  #596
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Instead of replying to all the offers of late I am just going to say no.

I keep coming back to this, the other offers we have received (I know we are just playing fantasy world here) but they still were better. I am not dealing Lui at this moment, if I am the GM, for the current offers we are getting in this thread, especially not when we have received much better, from the Little package, a few from EDM fans, and even the bottom line basics from FLA, they are all more appealing.

I am not going to settle for spare parts.

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12-05-2012, 07:17 PM
  #597
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Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
A good thought that might end up working.

To me Connolly might be a better fit though as he to me is a similar player to Bozak (slightly better overall assuming he stays healthy) but Bozak provides extra value to Toronto thanks to his chemistry with Kessel (useful in our never ending quest for a #1 center )

Nice thing for Vancouver is that either contract ends at the end of this season so that provides a bit of flexibility. I would assume Connolly would re-sign for cheaper next time around. You would prefer Lombardi as a cap dump though?
Yes because if Bozak plays well we will resign. Connolly will basically be let go no matter what. In terms of salary Bozak + Lombardi 4mil Connolly 4.5mil works out to be almost the same.

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12-05-2012, 07:18 PM
  #598
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No to the downgrading to the 2nds.
Hmm okay.

What about upgrading the 3rd from Vancouver's end to a 2nd? And/or throwing in Dale Weise just because I like him?

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12-05-2012, 07:19 PM
  #599
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
IMO, those were unrealistic offers.

Lupul was our 2nd best player last year and a 1st????

Kulemin had an off year but brings so much to the table, than you take our 2nd best prospect (Frattin) , and than our 4th best prospect (Colborne) and on top of that you want our 1st????


I based my offer on what was speculated recently.
Just keep in mind Luongo will become your best player.

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12-05-2012, 07:20 PM
  #600
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Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
Hmm okay.

What about upgrading the 3rd from Vancouver's end to a 2nd? And/or throwing in Dale Weise just because I like him?
DALE ****ING WEISE? Better be willing to part with Gardiner then.

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