HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Luongo: the continuing saga ...

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-05-2012, 10:51 PM
  #701
LEAFANFORLIFE23
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,656
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Hemsky + MPS vs Luongo + Ballard for Little, Antropov, 2nd.

It probably depends who you ask, but I'd probably prefer the Winnipeg one. This is all fan speculation though. I've seen Leafs fans offer Reimer one-for-one and I've seen one offer Lupul, Blacker, cond. 1st.

Some of these deals I think we should do, and that it would be fair value. Others I don't. Most fans can agree Luongo has quite a bit of value. The only question is which teams are interested in him. I don't think Toronto is the be all and end all as a Luongo destination. I think he likely will end up a Leaf because Burke has the greatest need for goaltending out of any team, and is therefore likely to have the best offer.
you say you think burke will have the best offer I agree what I am wondering is not what you think Lou is worth but what you think he actually gets?

LEAFANFORLIFE23 is offline  
Old
12-05-2012, 10:51 PM
  #702
Spazmatic Dan
The Circle of Leaf
 
Spazmatic Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Chatham, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,757
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Is this to mean Reimer carries more value to TO than Scrivens does? I can see that Reimer as _a_ track record, while Scrivens doesn't, but this comes down to projection. Who does TO management favour long-term?
Well I can't say for 100% certain but to me its Reimer no doubt. Scrivens is a very good AHL goalie with some potential but he's also an undrafted 27 (I think) year old signee who has got a ways to go to prove himself. I think he could become a nice backup but I don't see him with starter potential.

Reimer to me has more potential, has already played at a higher level in the NHL and is younger.

My 2 cents.

Spazmatic Dan is offline  
Old
12-05-2012, 10:52 PM
  #703
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,226
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Yeah he is... but that face of the franchise has a career high of 61 points. They're already going to have to pay a substantial price to keep him... and would likely be better served giving him the money reflective of his value to the Panthers, than spending money where they don't need to in order to try and convince him to stay. Do you really think it's in Stephen Weiss' best interest to give up a couple million bucks per season so he can play in Florida with Roberto Luongo instead of a Theodore-Clemmensen/Bernier/Markstrom tandem??

IF IF IF... fact is... Luongo hasn't won anything that matters when it comes to NHL playoffs (Stanley Cup, Conn Smythe).


He was 60 minutes removed from a cup.


He was in the Conn Smythe discussion after game #5.


His playoff stats on the whole compare very well to other goalies.


The Cup, and by extension the Conn Smythe Trophy, are team driven awards. No one says Lundqvist's value is suspect without that hardware do they? Luongo has come as close as you can without winning it, with years of high end play... Nobody in their right mind would hold that against him.





And back to the Jets' offer, Little + Antropov + 2nd, can you beat it? You wanted to speculate on the speculation correct? So there it is. Have at it.

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
12-05-2012, 10:52 PM
  #704
Subbanned
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 518
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciccio1980 View Post
Can someone tell me of a trade in NHL history where a 33year old goalie on a bad contract was traded for anything valuable
Yup. As an objective third party, I completely agree. As I said in the first thread on this subject, the Canucks are getting back Bozak, prospect, and maybe a 2nd tops for Luongo. All this other mildly entertaining and hyperbolic discussion is a waste of breath. Then again, this is HFB during a lockout, so it's to be expected.

Subbanned is offline  
Old
12-05-2012, 10:54 PM
  #705
Vankiller Whale
Maybe HE can score
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,916
vCash: 5555
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
you say you think burke will have the best offer I agree what I am wondering is not what you think Lou is worth but what you think he actually gets?
I've heard Bozak thrown around a lot, and Kadri seems to need a change of scenery, but they don't have enough value on their own, imo. Bozak, Kadri, and a top-10 protected 1st, or something like that is what I'd expect a deal to look like.

Although I don't like it much, I think that's what it will be.

Vankiller Whale is offline  
Old
12-05-2012, 10:55 PM
  #706
Cogburn
Registered User
 
Cogburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,724
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
Which proposals are those? The Bozak + 2nd types or the Bozak + Kadri + 1st types?

Or both?

Because you are right, if you're looking for more one-to-one deals as opposed to packages, Toronto will have difficulty fulfilling your request without castrating itself.

Unless Burke's already tampering to get Perry...then Lupul might be available .
HANDS OFF PERRY IS SPOKEN FOR!!!

I mean...nothing.

Both those types of deals don't help us a hell of a lot, compared to what we have available now. Would Bozak do a better job then, say, Arnott or Schroeder? Probably, but not at the cost of Luongo. Would Kulemin or MacArthur do a better job than Raymond? In all likelihood yes, but neither are big enough improvements to merit us losing someone of Luongo's calibre.

We can afford his 5.33 million cap hit as an insurance policy against Schneider for awhile if the Leafs are the only player, but even adding Kadri and a (protected) first to Bozak doesn't give us enough bang for our buck.

Cogburn is offline  
Old
12-05-2012, 10:55 PM
  #707
SephF
Thanks Smytty
 
SephF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,440
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciccio1980 View Post
Can someone tell me of a trade in NHL history where a 33year old goalie on a bad contract was traded for anything valuable
Off the top of my head

Oilers traded a 1st round pick (which was used as part of the trade to get Demitra) and a 3rd to Minnesota for Dwayne Rolson. He was 35 or 36.

SephF is offline  
Old
12-05-2012, 10:56 PM
  #708
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,226
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
Well I can't say for 100% certain but to me its Reimer no doubt. Scrivens is a very good AHL goalie with some potential but he's also an undrafted 27 (I think) year old signee who has got a ways to go to prove himself. I think he could become a nice backup but I don't see him with starter potential.

Reimer to me has more potential, has already played at a higher level in the NHL and is younger.

My 2 cents.


The thing that keeps coming up for me is that Scrivens chose to sign with TO as a FA. Would it go against "code" to deal him before giving him a shot at the NHL? Why did he choose to sign in TO over other options? Could it have been that he figured the road to the NHL was easier due to their goaltending situation being in flux?

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
12-05-2012, 10:56 PM
  #709
Spazmatic Dan
The Circle of Leaf
 
Spazmatic Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Chatham, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,757
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Neither of those proposals are any good.
Yes thank you Y2K I think everyone who has read these threads knows you want Gardiner + 1st or bust (or whatever it was) and that you are sticking to your guns. Good on ya mate.

Toronto can't pay that so yes, that's a dead end.

Spazmatic Dan is offline  
Old
12-05-2012, 10:58 PM
  #710
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,226
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
I could say the same for you guys...lol

Well speaking for myself, I don't have a problem with the content of this thread as it relates to a player on my team. But you have stated your distaste, and Lu is not a TO player, so what are you still doing here?

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
12-05-2012, 10:58 PM
  #711
Vankiller Whale
Maybe HE can score
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,916
vCash: 5555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciccio1980 View Post
Can someone tell me of a trade in NHL history where a 33year old goalie on a bad contract was traded for anything valuable
Giguere was traded for Blake+, who was a 60ish point player at the time.

Vankiller Whale is offline  
Old
12-05-2012, 10:59 PM
  #712
DougGilmour93
Registered User
 
DougGilmour93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,133
vCash: 500
Bozak + Kadri + MacArthur + Franson/Holzer

for

Luongo + Raymond

DougGilmour93 is offline  
Old
12-05-2012, 11:00 PM
  #713
Subbanned
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 518
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SephF View Post
Off the top of my head

Oilers traded a 1st round pick (which was used as part of the trade to get Demitra) and a 3rd to Minnesota for Dwayne Rolson. He was 35 or 36.
Meh. It was a 1st and a conditional pick (dependent on resigning). I don't think Lowe predicted that Rolie would have that run and that they'd actually end up resigning. Either way, not that valuable a return up front for Minnesota.

Subbanned is offline  
Old
12-05-2012, 11:01 PM
  #714
DougGilmour93
Registered User
 
DougGilmour93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,133
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Well speaking for myself, I don't have a problem with the content of this thread as it relates to a player on my team. But you have stated your distaste, and Lu is not a TO player, so what are you still doing here?
95% of this thread has to do with the Leafs silly boy.

DougGilmour93 is offline  
Old
12-05-2012, 11:01 PM
  #715
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,226
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subbanned View Post
Meh. It was a 1st and a conditional pick (dependent on resigning). I don't think Lowe predicted that Rolie would have that run and that they'd actually end up resigning. Either way, not that valuable a return up front for Minnesota.


That was a great return for a far lesser, more aged goaltender than Luongo.

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
12-05-2012, 11:03 PM
  #716
Subbanned
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 518
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Giguere was traded for Blake+, who was a 60ish point player at the time.
A rapidly declining 40 point 36 year old on an awful contract is your example of a good return? Yikes. You guys are only proving that poster correct in his assertion that aging goalies on bad contracts don't yield a high return. Don't forget that Burke managed to send Toskalol to Anaheim in that deal also, thus saving cap space. Steal for the Leafs.

Subbanned is offline  
Old
12-05-2012, 11:03 PM
  #717
Cogburn
Registered User
 
Cogburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,724
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subbanned View Post
Meh. It was a 1st and a conditional pick (dependent on resigning). I don't think Lowe predicted that Rolie would have that run and that they'd actually end up resigning. Either way, not that valuable a return up front for Minnesota.
So a goalie that wasn't expected to get the receiving team very far got a first and...the Oilers overpaid? So in context...a goalie, who would be expected to deliver at least a playoff berth, should get...less?

Cogburn is offline  
Old
12-05-2012, 11:03 PM
  #718
SephF
Thanks Smytty
 
SephF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,440
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subbanned View Post
Meh. It was a 1st and a conditional pick (dependent on resigning). I don't think Lowe predicted that Rolie would have that run and that they'd actually end up resigning. Either way, not that valuable a return up front for Minnesota.
It was pretty good considering it was for Roloson who wasn't exactly a top flight goalie like Luongo is.

They also traded that pick + O'Sullivan for Demitra straight across and Demitra was a very valuable member of that organization.

SephF is offline  
Old
12-05-2012, 11:04 PM
  #719
LEAFANFORLIFE23
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,656
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Giguere was traded for Blake+, who was a 60ish point player at the time.
he had 26 points when he was traded

LEAFANFORLIFE23 is offline  
Old
12-05-2012, 11:06 PM
  #720
Vankiller Whale
Maybe HE can score
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,916
vCash: 5555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subbanned View Post
A rapidly declining 40 point 36 year old on an awful contract is your example of a good return? Yikes. You guys are only proving that poster correct in his assertion that aging goalies on bad contracts don't yield a high return. Don't forget that Burke managed to send Toskalol to Anaheim in that deal also, thus saving cap space. Steal for the Leafs.
Yeah, and Lupul might just as easily regress as well if he were included. It's not like any of Kadri/Kulemin/Lupul/1st are guaranteed value. Blake's seasons before then he had 69, 52, and 63 points. yeah he regressed, which was a risk. That risk applies to any assets Toronto sends as well.

Vankiller Whale is offline  
Old
12-05-2012, 11:07 PM
  #721
Spazmatic Dan
The Circle of Leaf
 
Spazmatic Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Chatham, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,757
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
HANDS OFF PERRY IS SPOKEN FOR!!!

I mean...nothing.

Both those types of deals don't help us a hell of a lot, compared to what we have available now. Would Bozak do a better job then, say, Arnott or Schroeder? Probably, but not at the cost of Luongo. Would Kulemin or MacArthur do a better job than Raymond? In all likelihood yes, but neither are big enough improvements to merit us losing someone of Luongo's calibre.

We can afford his 5.33 million cap hit as an insurance policy against Schneider for awhile if the Leafs are the only player, but even adding Kadri and a (protected) first to Bozak doesn't give us enough bang for our buck.
Yeah, by Anaheim?

I see what you are saying but its those improvements plus cap flexibility for an asset that yes, doesn't hurt to keep but at the same time is not particularly necessary with Schneider in the fold. That flexibility helps you sign Perry you tampering cheaters.

The futures Toronto is giving up have (well obviously) future value so you're also looking at future benefit.

Its all speculation of course but looking at the interested teams you're looking at minor impact players and futures packages. Chicago might be the only one interested I can see that may provide a singular, higher impact player but trading him there would be....ugly to say the least.

Unless you like Winnipeg's proposal that includes Little (although I don't like Little nearly as much as quite a few Vancouver fans it seems). Even then I don't see how Winnipeg doesn't fly with Pavelec.

All my opinion of course.

Spazmatic Dan is offline  
Old
12-05-2012, 11:07 PM
  #722
Vankiller Whale
Maybe HE can score
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,916
vCash: 5555
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
he had 26 points when he was traded
He was traded partway through the season and had 63 points the season prior.

Vankiller Whale is offline  
Old
12-05-2012, 11:07 PM
  #723
DougGilmour93
Registered User
 
DougGilmour93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,133
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Yeah, and Lupul might just as easily regress as well if he were included. It's not like any of Kadri/Kulemin/Lupul/1st are guaranteed value. Blake's seasons before then he had 69, 52, and 63 points. yeah he regressed, which was a risk. That risk applies to any assets Toronto sends as well.
That deal ws cap dump for cap dump back than. That's all it was.

DougGilmour93 is offline  
Old
12-05-2012, 11:08 PM
  #724
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,226
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
95% of this thread has to do with the Leafs silly boy.


It's 100% Luongo centric. While it may swing to include TO at times, it's about him. So you don't have to partake. In fact, if you stop with the putrid proposals, you will help it move away from discussing your team.


Besides, I'm pretty sure there are other threads with leafs related content. Maybe you should peruse them?


I will repeat, you said that you dislike the content in this thread, despite it being leafs related at times. The easy answer is for you to vacate.

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
12-05-2012, 11:08 PM
  #725
Subbanned
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 518
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
So a goalie that wasn't expected to get the receiving team very far got a first and...the Oilers overpaid? So in context...a goalie, who would be expected to deliver at least a playoff berth, should get...less?
Neither of those sentences apply to what I wrote. I said the opposite, in that the Oilers did not give up a lot of value. And of course Luongo should get more. Well done.

Subbanned is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:51 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.