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Prospect Talk PART V

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Old
01-04-2013, 12:48 PM
  #376
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True. KJ had that ability/mobility to jump into a play more then what Reinhart shows. I think Reinhart's offense will primarily come from bombs at the point and on the PP. Similar to Hamonic.

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01-04-2013, 12:53 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I'm not saying Griff is an NHLer right now, but IMO he is pretty damn close defensively. The only thing holding him back at this point will be his skating quickness. He has a lot of time between now and September 2013 to improve that area, though.
Hopefully Tavares, Martin and Strome can convince Reinhart to spend the summer in "The Dungeon." It could work wonders for his development just like the others.

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01-04-2013, 01:09 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by Caustic Acrostic View Post
Hopefully Tavares, Martin and Strome can convince Reinhart to spend the summer in "The Dungeon." It could work wonders for his development just like the others.
As much as I would love to see that, I'm not sure how feasible it would be logistically for Reinhart to do that. He is a Western Canadian kid and would probably stick around that region for training. From what I've heard, the Edmonton Oil Kings have sick facilities so he'd probably stick around there.

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01-04-2013, 01:23 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by Lumisade31 View Post
Finlands news-site gave rating for each Finnish player on team. Here´s what they write on Pokka. Ville Pokka: Best defender of Finland. The composure and the daring were enough for the courageous playing even when the rest of the team was trembling. Spared the goal for a relegation round, but otherwise playing with the puck was secure and good. Was also good on own end, and formed best d-pair with Linbohm. I used translator so hope you can understand what i write =).

And what you`ve asked about his skating ability. I don`t see that it`s gonna be a problem. He`s not the fastest skater, but what I have seen is that his skating style looks like he is very slow, but he is always right side of the opponent. If you know what I mean. He replace his skating on a good positioning.
I just want to re phrase my skating question. When playing against men for Karpat, do
opposing players skate around him? Since Pokka is playing against older players, it's
going to happen some. Long as he improves, it's not a worry.

PS-Your writing is good, no problem understanding. Thanks again for filling us in.

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01-04-2013, 01:29 PM
  #380
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Regarding the bolded part above, do you really want to limit him as a player, though? If an extra year of junior means allowing that offensive game to develop, isn't that better than stunting one part of his game?

Whenever I think of situations like this, I think of a guy like Rusty Klesla. Coming out of junior, the guy had the potential to be a great two-way defenseman. His offensive game in junior was raw, but it was good. You saw the potential there, but it needed more time to refine. However, he was rushed to the NHL because his defensive game was close to NHL-ready, and ended up spending his development years being safe and dependable in his own zone, without having a chance to fully develop the offensive side. Now, at age 30 or whatever, he's known for his defensive play, but brings very little offense. A solid NHL player, but hardly the type you expect from a 3rd overall pick.

So whenever I see people say a player should make the NHL because one part of his game is NHL-ready, but the other parts aren't, I can't help but think of guys like Klesla who could have been so much more if they were allowed to develop all aspects of their game.
I get what you're saying, but IMO the situation would be different. Klesla was brought in and expected to be "the guy" for CBJ defensively. With the Isles, Reinhart will come in behind guys like Hamonic, MacDonald, probably Streit and most likely another veteran addition. He'll most likely be brought along slowly and carefully, playing low pressure minutes until he gets comfortable defensively at that level. Once that happens, I would expect him to get more involved offensively in an attempt to improve that aspect of his game. He already has a pretty solid breakout pass. The other main aspect would be that big shot from the point, which again is pretty good at this point, it's just a matter of using it. The Isles could choose to give him some PP time to get this part of his game going.

Either way, when his skating improves a bit more I expect his offensive game to take a pretty big leap as well.

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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
I know you'd give him a shot at camp and 9 game tryout. That was my point. JT's game was solid.....for a young kid, his defense was acceptable (better than that we were surprised) and his offense was great. He earned it. His skating was mediocre, but much better than Nino's. That improved. Tavares could play an entire shift like a pro and moreover could play an entire game without being a detriment in the least.

Griff needs to mature. You have to cradle him a bit and allow him time to grow. He has to see the AHL as the logic is.....he's poised and solid now, he has to make the gradual climb and learn so as to be the SMART hockey player he is at a higher level. Time goes on and he gets called up and sees what he has to work on and he works in the AHL for a little and shapes his mental game all the while forging his improved physical, offensive and skating games. You bring him along carefully and if he shows he's ready for promotion, you promote him.

He is one type along with power forwards you ABSOLUTELY do not rush.

He and Nino mean way too much to rush. You want their games honed, polished and delivered with ribbons. Not rushed and compromised because you thought developing them in the toughest league in the world might yield better results than somewhere where they could maintain confidence, have room to grow and time to do so.
Ultimately I'd have no problem with waiting for Reinhart to get some AHL time before seeing him on LI/BK, if that is what his play/development dictates. I just don't and will never agree with being overly cautious with these guys if their play warrants them an NHL look.

I remember when Hamonic made it to the AHL in 2010, most people wanted him to stay in Bridgeport the full year to get "proper development." He ended up getting the call early that season and was our best NHL defenseman. I wouldn't be surprised if Reinhart takes a similar path(not necessarily the same time-frame, but cracking the lineup before most people feel he's ready).

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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
He obviously has the offensive game but he has the smarts to not use it right now. He gradually introduced it into his game I believe in prior levels.

He's smart.

Remember KJ? He could have had a twenty goal season or two with his ability and brain, but he always chose the safe route, te smart route, and therein was his value.
Reinhart I bet will blossom in time into an offensive threat, but will be a tempered threat. Reserving chances for when he has room and time.

That's not a bad player to have. Maybe for stat junkies.

I'd be more concerned he starts hitting. Open ice hits, of course. (if he is what I believe he is, he will likely not use the boards or go out of his way to hit along the boards unless the play is there)
I actually really like that KJ comparison. I think Reinhart could be that type of player. I think what you just described is part of the reason why people are down on Reinhart. He just doesn't put up the numbers(not just in this tournament, but this season in the WHL as well). That could change, but even if it doesn't I still see him having the potential to become a valuable KJ-type piece.

I don't know about anyone else, but if KJ was reincarnated and entered the draft, I'd have zero problem taking him 4th overall.

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Old
01-04-2013, 01:44 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I actually really like that KJ comparison. I think Reinhart could be that type of player. I think what you just described is part of the reason why people are down on Reinhart. He just doesn't put up the numbers(not just in this tournament, but this season in the WHL as well). That could change, but even if it doesn't I still see him having the potential to become a valuable KJ-type piece.

I don't know about anyone else, but if KJ was reincarnated and entered the draft, I'd have zero problem taking him 4th overall.
I wouldn't either. Remember though KJ was a MUCH better skater than Reinhart. Doesn't mean Reinhart can't get there, it's just that Reinharts skating isn't even a strength at this point, it's a weakness'. That along with PP exposure (or lack thereof to this point) is reason enough to let him work on those things in WHL and AHL.

Could Reinhart step into the NHL and be a passable third pairing defenceman tomorrow? Maybe. But why rush that and lower his ceiling when we already have a slew of guys that can be a satisfactory 3rd pairing dmen. What's the rush, he's one of the few guys in the organization that you can point to and say, 'He has all the tools, with time and proper development he could grow into being a 1st pairing defenceman'. Why would we risk that and possibly take that away from him?

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01-04-2013, 02:05 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by InformTheMasses View Post
I wouldn't either. Remember though KJ was a MUCH better skater than Reinhart. Doesn't mean Reinhart can't get there, it's just that Reinharts skating isn't even a strength at this point, it's a weakness'. That along with PP exposure (or lack thereof to this point) is reason enough to let him work on those things in WHL and AHL.

Could Reinhart step into the NHL and be a passable third pairing defenceman tomorrow? Maybe. But why rush that and lower his ceiling when we already have a slew of guys that can be a satisfactory 3rd pairing dmen. What's the rush, he's one of the few guys in the organization that you can point to and say, 'He has all the tools, with time and proper development he could grow into being a 1st pairing defenceman'. Why would we risk that and possibly take that away from him?
I think his skating is actually pretty good, at least for a big guy. I think it looked worse than it actually is in this tournament though, and IMO is partially due to him having to restrict his game. I think when Reinhart is allowed to be Reinhart, and just react to the game rather than think "am I doing the right thing here", his skating does look better.

I agree that he does need to improve that area regardless. I think he will though, especially as he continues to fill out and get stronger, I expect that long stride to get more powerful. Some strength and conditioning couldn't hurt either.

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01-04-2013, 03:58 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Two things stand out in this discussion about Reinhart.

1. When Snow drafts the exciting, quickly rising youngster (Nino/Strome), he's criticized for it. Accused of reaching, accused of choosing flash over substance.

When he takes the safe pick, there's someone on the other side of the fence, complaining he didn't take the flashy, exciting prospect.

2.Have some fans transferred the worrying, nailbiting and overreaction over Strome early in the season, to Reinhart ?
3. When Snow takes a guy who is coming off of a strong WJC, he is accused of placing too much value on a short tournament.

When a player Snow's drafted does not have a strong WJC, Snow is accused of taking the wrong player in favor of whoever had a strong tournament.

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01-04-2013, 06:34 PM
  #384
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Going back and fourth between Niagra game in OHL and Bridgeport.

Mitch Theoret has a hip pointer, from the game last night. He is not with the team and will not be playing at all this weekend. Coach says it's nothing too serious though, so he shouldn't be out long.

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01-04-2013, 08:11 PM
  #385
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I actually really like that KJ comparison. I think Reinhart could be that type of player. I think what you just described is part of the reason why people are down on Reinhart. He just doesn't put up the numbers(not just in this tournament, but this season in the WHL as well). That could change, but even if it doesn't I still see him having the potential to become a valuable KJ-type piece.

I don't know about anyone else, but if KJ was reincarnated and entered the draft, I'd have zero problem taking him 4th overall.
I pretty much stopped reading when I saw Reinhart and Kenny Jonsson in the same sentence. Kenny Jonsson was an unheralded special player. You had to watch him to truly appreciate how great he was. Anytime Jonsson was on the ice you felt at ease, and you felt like things will be okay. Kenny Jonsson would've went ahead of Ryan Murray in this draft let alone Reinhart. I've been down on Reinhard before he was even drafted by us, and wanted to trade down to take Trouba. I'd be anything but shocked if Reinhart didn't pan out

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01-04-2013, 08:13 PM
  #386
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Originally Posted by Kvashinator12 View Post
I pretty much stopped reading when I saw Reinhart and Kenny Jonsson in the same sentence. Kenny Jonsson was an unheralded special player. You had to watch him to truly appreciate how great he was. Anytime Jonsson was on the ice you felt at ease, and you felt like things will be okay. Kenny Jonsson would've went ahead of Ryan Murray in this draft let alone Reinhart. I've been down on Reinhard before he was even drafted by us, and wanted to trade down to take Trouba. I'd be anything but shocked if Reinhart didn't pan out
Reinhart possesses alot of those same qualities. Don't let 1 mediocre tournament played on international ice fool you. He is calm in the defensive zone, real cool customer and always making the right play.

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01-04-2013, 08:42 PM
  #387
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Friday

Mississauga 5, Niagara 2-Graham -2, Theoret injured (hip pointer).
Erie 1, Barrie 0 Pelech, even.
Everett 3, Spokane 2-Kichton, 1 assist, even.
Denver 5, Cornell 1-Mayfield, even.


Last edited by Degeneration Rex: 01-04-2013 at 11:58 PM.
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01-05-2013, 07:29 AM
  #388
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Really disappointed in Strome's performance at the WJHC. Chose the worst time to go into a slump. After dominating the OHL for the last month, and then playing great the first 3 games, completely shut out the last three games. Hopefully this doesn't hurt his confidence.

I guess a bunch of Canadian players should look in the mirror, several had really bad tournaments.

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01-05-2013, 08:45 AM
  #389
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Really disappointed in Strome's performance at the WJHC. Chose the worst time to go into a slump. After dominating the OHL for the last month, and then playing great the first 3 games, completely shut out the last three games. Hopefully this doesn't hurt his confidence.

I guess a bunch of Canadian players should look in the mirror, several had really bad tournaments.
True but Strome was not one of them. Not sure what you were expecting but a Point per game pace as a second liner with almost no Powerplay time is about as good as you can expect. I don't know how many players played on his wings but it was a lot. No excuses and of course you would prefer to score those 6 points in the last three games as opposed to the first 3 games, but judging performances ion the WJC by Point production is silly. Strome was present and created opportunities in every game this tournament. The US-Canada semi-final may be the exception but the entire time mailed it in that game. That is among the many questions Coach Steve Spott should be asking himself, he made a lot of odd choices.

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01-05-2013, 09:17 AM
  #390
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Originally Posted by InformTheMasses View Post
True but Strome was not one of them. Not sure what you were expecting but a Point per game pace as a second liner with almost no Powerplay time is about as good as you can expect. I don't know how many players played on his wings but it was a lot. No excuses and of course you would prefer to score those 6 points in the last three games as opposed to the first 3 games, but judging performances ion the WJC by Point production is silly. Strome was present and created opportunities in every game this tournament. The US-Canada semi-final may be the exception but the entire time mailed it in that game. That is among the many questions Coach Steve Spott should be asking himself, he made a lot of odd choices.
Have to agree, I was pleased with what I saw from Strome considering his role on this team. Spott rode the 1st line and counted on them to provide the majority of the offense, seemed like all the other lines were an afterthought. Too bad the first line was only effective on the PP and nearly invisible at ES for the majority of the tourney. Very disappointing effort for the whole team though.

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01-05-2013, 09:29 AM
  #391
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Trouba is a beast. That is all.

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01-05-2013, 09:51 AM
  #392
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Trouba is a beast. That is all.
Agreed, so is John Gibson. Just wish Russo would have won a spot on this team. I think he would have dominated too, especially on the power play. USA did play great defense though, so obviously Housley made some great choices.

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01-05-2013, 09:59 AM
  #393
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Yeah the whole team played great. Everyone was skating and hitting and jumping in front of shots. Well deserved win. Wish some isles prospects were in it. Maybe we will get Jones. He played awesome too and was one of they younger players.

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01-05-2013, 10:22 AM
  #394
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Not sure who you are referring to, but when it comes to this class I don't think I'd say "I told you so" until the draft actually happens. There are so many elite forwards at the top of this draft, I wouldn't be surprised if Jones falls to 3 or even 4 depending on the draft order and team need. Guys like Drouin, Barkov and even Lindholm are all pretty close. He should end up going 2nd(or even 1st) based on talent/upside, but anything is possible.
I think you should be prepared to be surprised with the outcome, then. You won't find any scouts that put Jones outside of the top 2 at this point and after this tournament I think you'll find him 1st more often than not.

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01-05-2013, 10:37 AM
  #395
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Jones was the best dman in the whole damn tourney. The fastest, most explosive skater, best puck handler, best transition game, best shutdown game. Nobody was on his level. He shut everyone down, a clinic on defense, and moved the puck anywhich way he pleased.

Trouba looked like **** when asked to defend the Finns. Hes not agile/smart enough to handle quick puck movement. Jones was literally thr only player on the team who didnt look lost.

Didnt see anything too special from the forwards. They are good, buy Jones raw talent and positional play was unmatched.

You dont pass on 6'3" dmen who skate like aaron ness and are on a level above their peers in terms of hockey sense.

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01-05-2013, 11:03 AM
  #396
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Jones was the best dman in the whole damn tourney. The fastest, most explosive skater, best puck handler, best transition game, best shutdown game. Nobody was on his level. He shut everyone down, a clinic on defense, and moved the puck anywhich way he pleased.

Trouba looked like **** when asked to defend the Finns. Hes not agile/smart enough to handle quick puck movement. Jones was literally thr only player on the team who didnt look lost.

Didnt see anything too special from the forwards. They are good, buy Jones raw talent and positional play was unmatched.

You dont pass on 6'3" dmen who skate like aaron ness and are on a level above their peers in terms of hockey sense.
Yeah, I agree, they talk about generational talents, I think he is one. Probably the best defensive prospect since Doughty, and he's bigger, stronger and faster.

I disagree on your comments about Trouba, I think he's gonna be a stud. So he didn't have a good game against the Finns, doesn't mean he'll ALWAYS struggle against those kind of teams. Hell even the all time greats struggle once in a while. The Montreal Canadiens owned Denis Potvin for a while before he figured out how to beat them.

Side note, guess whom was named defenseman of the tournament. Yup, Trouba. He's playing lights out as a freshman in college too. The guy is a stud, and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone else (scouts included) who think otherwise.

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01-05-2013, 11:04 AM
  #397
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Seth Jones is the top player in the draft. Simply he has blown by McKinnon, Barkov and Drouin.
This has nothing to do how the others performed in the tournament, he is that good and that special.
Another thing to consider, he did get beat a couple times early in the tournament. The same thing happened
when he joined Portland in the WHL. Jones adjusts quickly and as we saw the last few games he was about flawless.


Last edited by Degeneration Rex: 01-05-2013 at 11:32 AM.
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01-05-2013, 11:14 AM
  #398
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Trouba played great overall, Seth Jones was just better. Its not a knock, but rather how ****ing unreal Jones is. Trouba needs work, reminds me of Bogosion. Jones didnt show any cracks and moved the puck at will.

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01-05-2013, 11:17 AM
  #399
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Jones is special, I don't think anyone can dispute that. The hype train for him should be in full effect now after the WJC, but it is deserved.

He still a little rough around the edges right now, but the package he's got is absolutely sick. I mean damn, this kid is going to be a BEAST in the NHL if he hits his projection. If there is no season, I hope we are fortunate to get either the #1 or #2 overall. You can't go wrong with either Jones or MacKinnon.

Trouba definitely impressed. I was high on him before the draft, I'm higher on him now. He looked great this tourney.

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01-05-2013, 12:29 PM
  #400
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I think you should be prepared to be surprised with the outcome, then. You won't find any scouts that put Jones outside of the top 2 at this point and after this tournament I think you'll find him 1st more often than not.
Considering I wrote in that same post that I expect him to go 1st or 2nd, I don't think I would be surprised with that outcome. My point was that the other guys are a lot closer to Jones in talent than most people think/say. Barkov, Drouin and Lindholm are all elite prospects who would be top-2 picks in most drafts. If teams like PHX, PIT, maybe even TOR all get top-3 picks, then yes I wouldn't be surprised if Jones falls to the 3-4 range.

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