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NHL Lockout Thread XI: Believe with Steve!

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Old
12-04-2012, 09:44 AM
  #351
Cashville
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Great article by Michael Grange (just saw Nanuk23 post it above me):

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-l...t_the_message/

I think it's time to take the deal and play some hockey; completely agree with most of his points of a much worse scenario being possible for the players.

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12-04-2012, 09:47 AM
  #352
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While that article makes sense, it also made sense back in August.

What has changed for the players now?

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12-04-2012, 09:49 AM
  #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailor Hopberle View Post
I know very little about this Burton fellow, but it seems like he's a pretty reputable guy. Now, I don't think we're as close to a deal as he is implying; however, I do think there's some truth behind his comments. My guess is that there was some type of "secret" meeting, and some headway was made, but whether or not that translates into an agreement remains to be seen.
Burton is an old school Boston Media guy...he does have some long standing relationships dating back to before the internet when it was a much smaller circle getting access to the teams in town.

My guess is that he is not making **** up. His source is most likely Jacobs or his son Charlie. It will be interesting to see how today plays out with all this in mind.

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12-04-2012, 09:51 AM
  #354
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So I was thinking about the NHL's mid October offer. That first "50/50" offer with the 211m in "Make Whole", the increased team to team revenue sharing, the reduced ELC term, the delayed UFA eligibility, the arbitration restrictions, the five percent annual individual contract compensation variance limit, and the five year term limit. That deal would've seen an 82 game season and seriously limited negative impact on HRR due to fan backlash over cancelled games.

If the NHLPA walked right into that mid October meeting and agreed to the deal immediately, sight unseen, and outright accepted all terms, would they not be better off than they are now? How can losing an entire season not be more detrimental to every single member of that union than simply accepting thatp mid October offer? Obviously they could've bargained off the framework of that offer and made it slightly more tolerable in time to preserve 82 games. Maybe preserve ELC and UFA policies and get a little extra bump in Make Whole. Call it good and play the full 82.

How can than not be better for the earnings of every single union member than cancelling and entire season?

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12-04-2012, 09:52 AM
  #355
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With Toews and Miller on one side and Jacobs and Burkle on the other, the only way we see progress today is if Larry Tannenbaum speaks up. As the owner of the NHL's most valuable franchise(according to Forbes) he has the power to make the owners give a little more so that this can get done. I doubt it though. Who cares about a lost year if business is going to pick up right where you left off before the lockout?

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12-04-2012, 09:55 AM
  #356
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Scouting report by Don Fehr to players:

http://www.downgoesbrown.com/2012/12...s-meeting.html

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12-04-2012, 09:56 AM
  #357
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The biggest issue in this lockout for me was that the players were behaving like typical unions in many respects. Yet, there situation isnt anything like other non-sports league unions.

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12-04-2012, 09:59 AM
  #358
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I wonder if Grange was told by a league insider that if the PA decertifies, the league will argue the validity of the contracts signed under the CBA or if that's just his assumption of what the league will do. I asked this question too - how enforceable are these contracts signed without a CBA in place? No one has really been able to give me a definitive answer with sound proof and I suspect that it's because such an argument has never been made in court yet. The worst case scenario for the PA is that the courts rule that contracts are not enforceable without the CBA which would mean that the league would be free to lift the lockout, but now owners can choose which contracts they want to keep as is, which ones they're willing to renegotiate it (and walk away if necessary) and which ones they want no part of. This would essentially give the owners the power to make any kind of contract they want and have zero accountability for that contract because they could get rid of the player when the players value is no longer worth their contract price.

This won't be an issue for star players, they'll get their gauranteed front loaded bonuses but how do rank and file players get those kind of bonuses that protect them from a contract fall out?

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12-04-2012, 09:59 AM
  #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuklaNation View Post
The biggest issue in this lockout for me was that the players were behaving like typical unions in many respects. Yet, there situation isnt anything like other non-sports league unions.
This. If they love the game that much, they wouldn't stop playing 2 months for these things.

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12-04-2012, 10:02 AM
  #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanklite View Post
While that article makes sense, it also made sense back in August.

What has changed for the players now?
Perspective can be quite sobering.

Like most of us, most of these guys can't afford to be missing too many pay days. The players put people in the seats, but the league offers the opportunity to separate fans from their money.

It's just business. Too many of these guys want to make it personal.

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12-04-2012, 10:02 AM
  #361
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So what time is the meeting starting?

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12-04-2012, 10:03 AM
  #362
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Originally Posted by RappinHobo View Post
So what time is the meeting starting?
"around 2pm-2:30 pm-ish" per Lebrun.

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12-04-2012, 10:08 AM
  #363
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Thanks

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12-04-2012, 10:11 AM
  #364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getyourselfsomerest View Post
With Toews and Miller on one side and Jacobs and Burkle on the other, the only way we see progress today is if Larry Tannenbaum speaks up. As the owner of the NHL's most valuable franchise(according to Forbes) he has the power to make the owners give a little more so that this can get done. I doubt it though. Who cares about a lost year if business is going to pick up right where you left off before the lockout?
Burkle? I thought reports suggested that Burkle is a moderate.

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12-04-2012, 10:11 AM
  #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
If the NHLPA walked right into that mid October meeting and agreed to the deal immediately, sight unseen, and outright accepted all terms, would they not be better off than they are now? How can losing an entire season not be more detrimental to every single member of that union than simply accepting thatp mid October offer? Obviously they could've bargained off the framework of that offer and made it slightly more tolerable in time to preserve 82 games. Maybe preserve ELC and UFA policies and get a little extra bump in Make Whole. Call it good and play the full 82.

How can than not be better for the earnings of every single union member than cancelling and entire season?
Of course it would have been better. The NHLPA's response to that offer was what led me to the realization that the NHLPA is not acting rationally, and never has been. They are chasing some mythical 'pot of gold' which they are convinced the owners are withholding from them, or ranting about their precious rights being taken away, or whining that their contracts aren't being honored in full, or just yelling that they hate Bettman and won't stand for him 'winning' this negotiation. The NHLPA stance of the day depends on what player you talk to.

Once you accept that, all the NHLPA's actions start to make some kind of warped sense. They're Don Quixote, tilting at windmills, fighting some glorious battle that nobody else can see.

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12-04-2012, 10:11 AM
  #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deebo View Post
"around 2pm-2:30 pm-ish" per Lebrun.
Read 4:00 p.m. per Fehrs advice.

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12-04-2012, 10:17 AM
  #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanklite View Post
Read 4:00 p.m. per Fehrs advice.
is this a joke meaning he will be late? because I thought I saw 2-230 as well.

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Old
12-04-2012, 10:18 AM
  #368
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
Burkle? I thought reports suggested that Burkle is a moderate.
Sorry, I meant Edwards.

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Old
12-04-2012, 10:21 AM
  #369
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Originally Posted by Mattiboy13 View Post
is this a joke meaning he will be late? because I thought I saw 2-230 as well.
They'll show up for 2-2:30. Just remember, Speedy Gonzalez... not everyone can pour a glass of water in under an hour like you can!

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12-04-2012, 10:22 AM
  #370
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12-04-2012, 10:24 AM
  #371
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Originally Posted by getyourselfsomerest View Post
Sorry, I meant Edwards.
That's what I thought...was just making sure.

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Old
12-04-2012, 10:26 AM
  #372
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Larry Brooks is an idiot, plain and simple
Ya got that, Brooksey

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12-04-2012, 10:28 AM
  #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
So I was thinking about the NHL's mid October offer. That first "50/50" offer with the 211m in "Make Whole", the increased team to team revenue sharing, the reduced ELC term, the delayed UFA eligibility, the arbitration restrictions, the five percent annual individual contract compensation variance limit, and the five year term limit. That deal would've seen an 82 game season and seriously limited negative impact on HRR due to fan backlash over cancelled games.

If the NHLPA walked right into that mid October meeting and agreed to the deal immediately, sight unseen, and outright accepted all terms, would they not be better off than they are now? How can losing an entire season not be more detrimental to every single member of that union than simply accepting thatp mid October offer? Obviously they could've bargained off the framework of that offer and made it slightly more tolerable in time to preserve 82 games. Maybe preserve ELC and UFA policies and get a little extra bump in Make Whole. Call it good and play the full 82.

How can than not be better for the earnings of every single union member than cancelling and entire season?
The bolded is my sentiments exactly. They didn't even take the offer seriously...at least not based on the proposals they put down.

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12-04-2012, 10:37 AM
  #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
So I was thinking about the NHL's mid October offer. That first "50/50" offer with the 211m in "Make Whole", the increased team to team revenue sharing, the reduced ELC term, the delayed UFA eligibility, the arbitration restrictions, the five percent annual individual contract compensation variance limit, and the five year term limit. That deal would've seen an 82 game season and seriously limited negative impact on HRR due to fan backlash over cancelled games.

If the NHLPA walked right into that mid October meeting and agreed to the deal immediately, sight unseen, and outright accepted all terms, would they not be better off than they are now? How can losing an entire season not be more detrimental to every single member of that union than simply accepting thatp mid October offer? Obviously they could've bargained off the framework of that offer and made it slightly more tolerable in time to preserve 82 games. Maybe preserve ELC and UFA policies and get a little extra bump in Make Whole. Call it good and play the full 82.

How can than not be better for the earnings of every single union member than cancelling and entire season?
There have been several of us asking this question repeatedly and we have never gotten a reasonable response.

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Old
12-04-2012, 10:37 AM
  #375
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Sorry if this has been beaten to death, but I'm at work and haven't been able to read the whole thread. Has Burton's report been shot down? Or do we still think it could be true?

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