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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

What's with Canada's obsession with role players?

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01-03-2013, 10:05 AM
  #1
General Granny*
 
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What's with Canada's obsession with role players?

I don't understand why Canada year after year keeps insisting on bringing in role players/ grinders over the skilled scorers to a tournament that is all run and gun with high end speed and offence, plus the increased sensitivity of reffing basically makes the hitting in the games almost all suspendable and almost a hit free tourney. Plus the grinders are mostly effective in a tight checking role where you are playing the same team 4-7 games in a row playoff style, doesn't make any sense in this tourney where you barely play the same team twice and not very many games as a whole for the grinders to have an effect at all.

Every other country picks their most skilled players and put them in their bottom 6, most of these skilled players already play on their junior team's top PK unit so its not like they have no defensive game.

Also people saying this team was stacked because of lockout are just wrong, aside of RNH, every other player was a bubble NHL player that probably wouldn't have made it to their big club if there was a season. TSN hype machine at it again.

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01-03-2013, 10:08 AM
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dannyboy8920
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USA went with a full on 'role' line. And they played great.

Even the players in Canada's bottom 6 were likely top end PP minute guys on their respected club teams.

The right team was picked. Canada lost to another well constructed team.

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01-03-2013, 10:09 AM
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I don't get it either. They have this idea that they need 2 scoring lines, a checking line and a so called "energy" line. It's ludicrous.

Hopefully this idea will change.

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01-03-2013, 10:09 AM
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I sometimes question that myself. I think it's our past success and it's drunkenness. We have this romance affairs with good stories, people who step up during most dire times.

You think this is bad, I don't know if you recall Rob Zamuner in our 98 Olympic team. What the f was he doing there? apparently he was a good checker and a penalty killer

Going forward I would like to see Canada pick better skaters. We are so slow compare to the US and Russians.

Another issue I find is out dependency on goalies. If our goalies don't do well, we don't win.

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01-03-2013, 10:09 AM
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They badly needed a legit physical presence on the backend.

The rest of the team was what it should have been.

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01-03-2013, 10:13 AM
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JC Lipon vs Hunter Shinkaruk, who would you rather have

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01-03-2013, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
USA went with a full on 'role' line. And they played great.

Even the players in Canada's bottom 6 were likely top end PP minute guys on their respected club teams.

The right team was picked. Canada lost to another well constructed team.
USA had great goaltending. Canada couldn't afford to run into offensive trouble knowing their goaltending was weak.

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01-03-2013, 10:15 AM
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This is one of the most talented teams Canada has ever put out. Anyone who says otherwise is full of crap, frankly. You can have all the talent in the world, but if you don't know how to use it, it's worthless.

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01-03-2013, 10:19 AM
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Bomber0104
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Canada doesn't have enough role players..not too many.

Too many wussy stickhandlers and not enough brute force.

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01-03-2013, 10:19 AM
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Ha, this argument would be spot on in the past. Unfortunately they did do just what you're asking for this year. MacKinnon and Drouin would normally have been left off in favour of larger, 19 yr old players.

MacKinnon and Lipon, 4th liners, were both leading their leagues in scoring when camp opened.

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01-03-2013, 10:21 AM
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Seems like a weird year to be saying this when they took both MacKinnon and Drouin...considering how rarely Team Canada takes draft-eligible players (and puts them in a prominent role, no less), I would say that they made a point to be more skill-oriented this year than in many previous years.

Edit: What LeafDangler said.

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01-03-2013, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by LeafDangler View Post
Ha, this argument would be spot on in the past. Unfortunately they did do just what you're asking for this year. MacKinnon and Drouin would normally have been left off in favour of larger, 19 yr old players.

MacKinnon and Lipon, 4th liners, were both leading their leagues in scoring when camp opened.
When did you see them play a scoring role ?

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01-03-2013, 10:22 AM
  #13
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Canada doesn't have enough role players..not too many.

Too many wussy stickhandlers and not enough brute force.
Meh, we're so deep we can select players who bring both. Guys who exemplify grit and determination in Jenner and Danault didn't exactly shine. Even tough players can play poorly.

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01-03-2013, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Caballo Blanco View Post
When did you see them play a scoring role ?
Oh I disagree with their usage but the guys playing ahead of them were hardly grinding role players.

The team just played poorly in 1 game. No need to over think things IMO.

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01-03-2013, 10:28 AM
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You can't bring 4 scoring lines. It doesn't work.

USA could have brought high scoring skill players like Reid Boucher and Adam Erne...it certainly seems sexier than Blake Pietila or Cole Bardreau...but then again, they don't have the top PK in the tournament and aren't where they are now if they went that route. Players like Lipon and Camara weren't the problem...inability to overcome a very good American defensive squad was. "Grinders" didn't make Schiefle, Huberdeau, and yes, even Nugent-Hopkins completely invisible in this game.

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01-03-2013, 10:29 AM
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You can't bring 4 scoring lines. It doesn't work.

USA could have brought high scoring skill players like Reid Boucher and Adam Erne...it certainly seems sexier than Blake Pietila or Cole Bardreau...but then again, they don't have the top PK in the tournament and aren't where they are now if they went that route. Players like Lipon and Camara weren't the problem...inability to overcome a very good American defensive squad was. "Grinders" didn't make Schiefle, Huberdeau, and yes, even Nugent-Hopkins completely invisible in this game.
It's much easier to shut down one scoring line than four.

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01-03-2013, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by YakuBOT View Post
This is one of the most talented teams Canada has ever put out. Anyone who says otherwise is full of crap, frankly. You can have all the talent in the world, but if you don't know how to use it, it's worthless.
This roster seems like it's been pretty overrated from the get-go. I don't see the star power compared with even the 2009 team: Tavares, Eberle, Kane, Benn, Hodgson, Pietrangelo, Subban, Myers, etc.

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01-03-2013, 10:36 AM
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This thread doesn't make any sense.

The only line that wasn't playing in their own end in the first 10 minutes was the 4th line.

And Drouin and MacKinnon did zilch today.

The loss wasn't about team selection, it was about getting the best players to show up.

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01-03-2013, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Caballo Blanco View Post
It's much easier to shut down one scoring line than four.
That would be applicable if Canada had "one scoring line." When two of the leading scorers in the OHL are on your third line, I don't think you're hurting too badly.

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01-03-2013, 10:39 AM
  #20
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People dissect/read into things way to much on here. In such a short tournament anything can happen. It's not a best of 7 series, any team can win on any given night. It's not like Canada was terrible, they've lost one game in this tournament. It just happened to be a big one.

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01-03-2013, 10:45 AM
  #21
dannyboy8920
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I can agree about the Defense.
The 'big guys' weren't strong enough and there really wasn't any hits coming from the back end.

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01-03-2013, 10:47 AM
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txpd
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a team and an allstar team are different things very often. 1st line players playing 3rd line rolls and minutes take them out of their comfort zone, while a top end 3rd line player brings team essentials. canada didnt lose because they built a team rather than an allstar team.

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01-03-2013, 10:55 AM
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Bomber0104
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Originally Posted by LeafDangler View Post
Meh, we're so deep we can select players who bring both. Guys who exemplify grit and determination in Jenner and Danault didn't exactly shine. Even tough players can play poorly.
Why the hell did Canada take on Murphy, Rielly, and Hamilton knowing that they are all offensive defencemen?

Why the hell were there so many pure offensive forwards?

What's wrong with having Frank Corrado, or Colton Sissons, and guys like that?

Defence failed this team and it's because Spott thought he'd just overload other teams with offence.

That never happened and we were left hanging out to dry with crap defence.

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01-03-2013, 10:59 AM
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This roster seems like it's been pretty overrated from the get-go. I don't see the star power compared with even the 2009 team: Tavares, Eberle, Kane, Benn, Hodgson, Pietrangelo, Subban, Myers, etc.
At the time, those guys didn't have "star power" in some cases either. Benn was a role player, Kane was a 17-yo injury replacement. They've become stars now, but weren't any bigger names then than the guys we have now. In fact, RNH is a "bigger star" than any of them were then.

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01-03-2013, 11:03 AM
  #25
Qrispy
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
This roster seems like it's been pretty overrated from the get-go. I don't see the star power compared with even the 2009 team: Tavares, Eberle, Kane, Benn, Hodgson, Pietrangelo, Subban, Myers, etc.
How is it overrated? Hockey Canada brought together the best junior players from across Canada + an NHL player in a lockout year. Minus a couple of questionable selections like Murphy and Lipon, this is the best possible team they could have fielded.

Not sure how anyone could predict that Hamilton, Rielly, Huberdeau, Ritchie would play so miserably.

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