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12'/13' Marlies Part I|24-14-2-2|Colborne and Ashton stepping up?

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12-27-2012, 02:06 PM
  #451
zeke
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I highly doubt Rielly is on the roster and anyways, that defense looks extremely weak defensively. We don't even have a shutdown pair.
by "shutdown pair" I'm guessing you mean "two big slow tough guys that'll be a liability in every situation, like Komi and Schenn were".

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12-27-2012, 03:20 PM
  #452
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by "shutdown pair" I'm guessing you mean "two big slow tough guys that'll be a liability in every situation, like Komi and Schenn were".
It sure is a different NHL but we do need some stay-at-home-first kinda guys

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12-27-2012, 03:26 PM
  #453
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Gunnar and Ranger are excellent at that.

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12-27-2012, 03:32 PM
  #454
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would be kinda impossible to lower the cap without buyout provisions.
Not really. Rollback, which is what the make-whole is supposed to offset some. That's the only thing the league/owners were prepared to pay outside of the cap structure.

Sorry, didn't mean to derail the thread, but we can't just "wish" Komisarek away from the team.

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by "shutdown pair" I'm guessing you mean "two big slow tough guys that'll be a liability in every situation, like Komi and Schenn were".
It's not their fault Wilson has no idea how to utilize those type of players.

Either way, stacking your blue line with offensemen is a really bad idea.

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12-27-2012, 03:42 PM
  #455
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tell that to detroit.

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12-27-2012, 04:01 PM
  #456
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Yeah, OK. They're actually more defensive than our current blue line, and that's not even factoring in the fact that Lidstrom is better defensively than anyone we have.


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12-27-2012, 04:06 PM
  #457
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the only guy remotely close to being a "defensive defenseman" on that blueline is former 40pt dman Brad Stuart.

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12-27-2012, 04:17 PM
  #458
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the only guy remotely close to being a "defensive defenseman" on that blueline is former 40pt dman Brad Stuart.
I suppose the 6'2" Quincey, and 6'4" Ericsson are known as puck moving, offensive juggernauts.

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12-27-2012, 06:51 PM
  #459
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I'm not saying we need more komisereks, but having liles or Gardiner in the shutdown pair is just asking to get scored on. Gardiner is no way bad defensively, but he can not shutdown big threats in the NHL.

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12-27-2012, 08:08 PM
  #460
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the only guy remotely close to being a "defensive defenseman" on that blueline is former 40pt dman Brad Stuart.
He signed with San Jose last summer.

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12-27-2012, 08:22 PM
  #461
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I suppose the 6'2" Quincey, and 6'4" Ericsson are known as puck moving, offensive juggernauts.
Ericsson no, but Quincey absolutely is a PMD. What does size have to do with the defensive role they play?

Some people on this board just look at a player's height to determine their physicality, role, two-way game....it drives me insane.

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12-27-2012, 08:23 PM
  #462
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I suppose the 6'2" Quincey, and 6'4" Ericsson are known as puck moving, offensive juggernauts.
I would say Detroit has a lot of 2-way guys. They can play the PP but they arent quarterbacking it like a Dan Boyle

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12-27-2012, 11:37 PM
  #463
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I suppose the 6'2" Quincey, and 6'4" Ericsson are known as puck moving, offensive juggernauts.
er yeah, Quincey is known as an all-offense no-defense player, actually.

and Ericsson is known as sucking and not playing much.

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12-27-2012, 11:57 PM
  #464
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I'm not saying we need more komisereks, but having liles or Gardiner in the shutdown pair is just asking to get scored on. Gardiner is no way bad defensively, but he can not shutdown big threats in the NHL.
Exactly, look at LA last year, had a more offensive minded defenseman paired with a shutdown defenseman. Worked pretty well for them.

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12-28-2012, 03:04 AM
  #465
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Ericsson no, but Quincey absolutely is a PMD. What does size have to do with the defensive role they play?

Some people on this board just look at a player's height to determine their physicality, role, two-way game....it drives me insane.
Big, large guys are generally not as mobile, which is a key asset for puck movers. Being able to elude forechecking pressure, and move the puck up the ice. His # of hits, and PIM throughout his career, along with his size seem to be a decent indication of the defensive role he plays. Both the AVS, and the Wings coaching staff trusted him enough defensively to give him significant PK time. This tells me that his overall defensive awareness can't be that bad. Certainly wouldn't qualify as "all offense, no defense" classification.

It's hardly just the player's height. Hope that knowledge helps to preserve your sanity for a bit longer.

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er yeah, Quincey is known as an all-offense no-defense player, actually.
He looks like a jack of all trade, master of none. Decent size, good aggression, willingness to block shots, and a player who's as likely to take a shot on net (not very effectively) in the offensive zone, as he is to make a pass.

As a 30'ish point defensemen, I wouldn't consider Quincey as an "all-offense" player.

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and Ericsson is known as sucking and not playing much.
Same could be said for Komisarek, yet his presence on the roster seems to annoy you to no end. Replacing him with Ranger (likely a career AHLr) on the 3rd pairing would even be an upgrade, necessarily.

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12-28-2012, 03:25 AM
  #466
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Big, large guys are generally not as mobile, which is a key asset for puck movers. Being able to elude forechecking pressure, and move the puck up the ice. His # of hits, and PIM throughout his career, along with his size seem to be a decent indication of the defensive role he plays. Both the AVS, and the Wings coaching staff trusted him enough defensively to give him significant PK time. This tells me that his overall defensive awareness can't be that bad. Certainly wouldn't qualify as "all offense, no defense" classification.

It's hardly just the player's height. Hope that knowledge helps to preserve your sanity for a bit longer.



He looks like a jack of all trade, master of none. Decent size, good aggression, willingness to block shots, and a player who's as likely to take a shot on net (not very effectively) in the offensive zone, as he is to make a pass.

As a 30'ish point defensemen, I wouldn't consider Quincey as an "all-offense" player.



Same could be said for Komisarek, yet his presence on the roster seems to annoy you to no end. Replacing him with Ranger (likely a career AHLr) on the 3rd pairing would even be an upgrade, necessarily.
Have you watched him play in the AHL? Or even remember when he was a top 4, maybe even top pairing, defenseman in TB?

Mans not a career AHLer. Mike Kostka, okay fine. Paul Ranger will be back in the NHL.

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12-28-2012, 03:51 AM
  #467
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Have you watched him play in the AHL? Or even remember when he was a top 4, maybe even top pairing, defenseman in TB?

Mans not a career AHLer. Mike Kostka, okay fine. Paul Ranger will be back in the NHL.
TB has had an awful defensive core for quite a few years. It has been their biggest weakness, and the reason why they haven't been able to accomplish much, despite all their offensive prowess. Ranger as a top 4 defensemen was part of their problem, IMO.

Maybe calling him a career AHLr was harsh, but I don't see the benefit of replacing Komisarek with him. I believe Carlyle will utilize Komi a lot better than Wilson has, and his style of play forced opposing forwards to keep their heads on a swivel. He may not have hit as often as Schenn, but his hits tended to be more devastating.

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12-28-2012, 07:37 AM
  #468
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Big, large guys are generally not as mobile, which is a key asset for puck movers. Being able to elude forechecking pressure, and move the puck up the ice. His # of hits, and PIM throughout his career, along with his size seem to be a decent indication of the defensive role he plays. Both the AVS, and the Wings coaching staff trusted him enough defensively to give him significant PK time. This tells me that his overall defensive awareness can't be that bad. Certainly wouldn't qualify as "all offense, no defense" classification.

It's hardly just the player's height. Hope that knowledge helps to preserve your sanity for a bit longer
So basically what you're saying is you haven't seen him play and you're again just making a bunch of assumptions based on a few stats.

I don't think I need to tell you how much you're wasting people's time by doing this.

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12-28-2012, 07:54 AM
  #469
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So basically what you're saying is you haven't seen him play and you're again just making a bunch of assumptions based on a few stats.

I don't think I need to tell you how much you're wasting people's time by doing this.
I've watched him play some, but not being an AVS fan, not nearly as much as I'd need to reliably analyze every facet of his game. I will put more stock seeing how his coaches (who watch him play every game) utilize him during games. They don't shy away from putting him on the PK (doesn't suck defensively), but he also isn't given the reigns on the PP, which should be a PMD'd bread and butter.

This is enough information to call BS on any "all offense, no defense" claims.

Either way, this is waaay OT, and I won't continue derailing a Marlies thread with it. I still stand by the original point that replacing Leafs defensive defensemen with one of the best producing Marlies offensive defensemen (who may or may not end up as a regular NHLr) is not a good idea. You need some kind of balance between the pairings.


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12-28-2012, 08:11 AM
  #470
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TB has had an awful defensive core for quite a few years. It has been their biggest weakness, and the reason why they haven't been able to accomplish much, despite all their offensive prowess. Ranger as a top 4 defensemen was part of their problem, IMO.

Maybe calling him a career AHLr was harsh, but I don't see the benefit of replacing Komisarek with him. I believe Carlyle will utilize Komi a lot better than Wilson has, and his style of play forced opposing forwards to keep their heads on a swivel. He may not have hit as often as Schenn, but his hits tended to be more devastating.
Ranger hasn't been a regular in Tbay since 08/09 and even then he only played 42 games. To place their lack of success on Ranger being in Tampa's top 4 is just wrong, the team had terrible goaltending and had way too much money spent on 3 players. Ranger was a well regarded up and coming dman before he left hockey

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12-28-2012, 08:24 AM
  #471
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Ranger hasn't been a regular in Tbay since 08/09 and even then he only played 42 games. To place their lack of success on Ranger being in Tampa's top 4 is just wrong, the team had terrible goaltending and had way too much money spent on 3 players. Ranger was a well regarded up and coming dman before he left hockey
You misunderstand. I'm not blaming their lack of defense on Ranger. I'm saying that he was able to secure a top 4 icetime because of Tampa's weak defense. I don't believe he would have been a top 4 defender on many other teams.

It's easy to blame goaltending when you have a horrible defensive system. Did Mike Smith coincidentally become a stud goalie right after getting out of Tampa?

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12-28-2012, 08:30 AM
  #472
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It's easy to blame goaltending when you have a horrible defensive system. Did Mike Smith coincidentally become a stud goalie right after getting out of Tampa?
Pretty sure they promoted the reason Mike Smith improved.

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12-28-2012, 08:35 AM
  #473
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Ranger is a far better defenseman than komi has ever been, and a legit mobile big minute shutdown defenseman like gunnarsson, not some pseudo-toughguy bottom pair pylon like komi.

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12-28-2012, 10:12 AM
  #474
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Big, large guys are generally not as mobile, which is a key asset for puck movers. Being able to elude forechecking pressure, and move the puck up the ice. His # of hits, and PIM throughout his career, along with his size seem to be a decent indication of the defensive role he plays. Both the AVS, and the Wings coaching staff trusted him enough defensively to give him significant PK time. This tells me that his overall defensive awareness can't be that bad. Certainly wouldn't qualify as "all offense, no defense" classification.
Because why watch players when we can just make assumptions based on stats?

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12-28-2012, 10:20 AM
  #475
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still like komi
but ranger is a huge upgrade
big 2 way dman, good leader
perfect player for leafs
we need those kind of guys

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