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Old
12-05-2012, 09:09 AM
  #26
Hawkaholic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
A 25-year-old top-4 Dman. How anyone could say Hammer isn't a siginificant piece is beyond me. Although Hammer wouldn't net a great 2nd line centre by himself, as part of a package the Hawks could get a legitimate centre to fill the hole now and going forward as opposed to getting a player like Bozak who would merely be a stopgap until the Hawks could upgrade (costing likely another roster player/prospects) at the position or until one of their prospects developes.
If Bozak is a fringe 2nd line C, than Hammer is a fringe top 4 Dman.

Hammer hasn't been a top 4 dman since the cup run when he was paired with BC. No other team considers him a significant piece, unless they have a terrible set of Dmen.

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Old
12-05-2012, 09:17 AM
  #27
HockeyGuruPitka
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
No from Chicago. Bozak isn't a 2nd line centre; he's a fringe guy. If Chicago's trading Hammer, they should go big and get a guy that legitimately fills the hole now and going forward.

And, I'm sorry, but even if Bozak was significantly better at faceoffs than Bolland (which he's not; 48% vs 52%), that would still be no reason to trade for him.. there are alot of centres that are better on faceoffs than Bolland.. get a true 2nd line centre if you're giving up a significant piece.
Tyler Bozak 52.7%

Bolland 48.4%

Bozak is a great complimentary player. He would be a great fit for Chicago. However as many have said, Toronto needs him to play with Kessel.

As many will love to deny, he is a good hockey player. 47 points in 74 games is not to shabby. We can make the argument of playing between kessel and lupul (which didn’t always happen), but he would be playing with very talented hockey players in Chicago.

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Old
12-05-2012, 09:27 AM
  #28
gdg9
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I would pull the trigger on this from a Leafs PoV.

Bozak is not the long term solution at #1C.
We already have a pretty good player entrenched at #2C (Grabo).

So that means, ideally, the future of Bozak as a Leaf is #3C.
He easily could (and should) be replaced by someone much better fitted to that role (tougher, better defensively, better on faceoffs, etc.)

Hammer would be a long term fit in our D. Could see him pairing up well with Gardiner.

Leafs Potential D Pairings:
Gunner - Phaneuf
Hammer - Gardiner
Liles - Holzer
extras: Komi/Franson


For those saying the Leafs can't give up Bozak because there is no one to replace him on Kessel's line, that is incredibly short sighted.

The Leafs need to find a new true #1 C by the beginning of the 2013-14 season, at the latest, no matter what - with or without Bozak.

Connolly can fill in as #1C in this shortened season just fine.

Does anyone really expect the Leafs to seriously contend this year anyway?

The big focus should be on 2013-2014.
Hammer fits with that - Bozak doesn't.

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Old
12-05-2012, 09:52 AM
  #29
The Podium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
No from Chicago. Bozak isn't a 2nd line centre; he's a fringe guy. If Chicago's trading Hammer, they should go big and get a guy that legitimately fills the hole now and going forward.

And, I'm sorry, but even if Bozak was significantly better at faceoffs than Bolland (which he's not; 48% vs 52%), that would still be no reason to trade for him.. there are alot of centres that are better on faceoffs than Bolland.. get a true 2nd line centre if you're giving up a significant piece.
The difference between 48% and 52% is the difference between 28th in the league and 68th in the league.....

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Old
12-05-2012, 10:42 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
It digs a deeper hole for TO at center. They'd be playing Grabovski as their #1C and have no depth under him, unless JVR, MacA, or Kulemin gets moved to center.
While not ideal....if Bozak is moved

Connolly
Grabo
McClement
Steckel

Possibly
JVR
Lombardi
Kadri
Colborne

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Old
12-05-2012, 10:46 AM
  #31
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I'd say it's fair value and I'd do it if Toronto acquire a #1 center first ...

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Old
12-05-2012, 10:53 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
While not ideal....if Bozak is moved

Connolly
Grabo
McClement
Steckel

Possibly
JVR
Lombardi
Kadri
Colborne
McClement is definitely a wild card this season. Keep forgetting that we signed him.

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Old
12-05-2012, 11:46 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
Tyler Bozak 52.7%

Bolland 48.4%

Bozak is a great complimentary player. He would be a great fit for Chicago. However as many have said, Toronto needs him to play with Kessel.

As many will love to deny, he is a good hockey player. 47 points in 74 games is not to shabby. We can make the argument of playing between kessel and lupul (which didnít always happen), but he would be playing with very talented hockey players in Chicago.
Seriously why do we need bozak. I mean if you look at the amount of goals scored off the rush you notice. That Bozak only contributed on two of them where he carried the puck. (Both of which were Kessel goals where as Lupul Managed to score 7 off the rush (6 being carried by Kessel.) Bozak is just a replaceable cog in this system.

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Old
12-05-2012, 11:52 AM
  #34
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Slide rielly to center and make the trade.

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Old
12-05-2012, 12:01 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
The difference between 48% and 52% is the difference between 28th in the league and 68th in the league.....
The difference is slim, Bozak wins 1 more faceoff every 2 games. That's nothing.

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Old
12-05-2012, 01:08 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
The difference is slim, Bozak wins 1 more faceoff every 2 games. That's nothing.
Giving Patrick Sharp and Marian Hossa an extra faceoff win every two games is pretty deadly.

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Old
12-05-2012, 01:13 PM
  #37
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Did Stalberg and Bozak play together?

Could always stick those 2 with Hossa and put together the STK line

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Old
12-05-2012, 01:56 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
Giving Patrick Sharp and Marian Hossa an extra faceoff win every two games is pretty deadly.
"Deadly" is a pretty big overstatement here.

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Old
12-05-2012, 02:07 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
Giving Patrick Sharp and Marian Hossa an extra faceoff win every two games is pretty deadly.
No, not really.

Will it help? the help would be very minimal.

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Old
12-05-2012, 02:17 PM
  #40
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When your looking at prospect of having Kruger or Kane at C ,, The improvement Bozak offers is huge

Also the Hawks could throw Bozak out for faceoffs instead of hoping that Toews is always ready

Cause when Bolland is on ice with a crucial faceoff it is disaster

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Old
12-05-2012, 02:30 PM
  #41
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Toronto doesn't make this deal.

We have plenty of defencemen, we need to keep Bozak as right now he is (sadly) penciled in as our #1C

For those saying make Grabo the top line C, we have done that, but for whatever reason he hasn't shown much chemistry with Kessel, while Bozak has.

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Old
12-05-2012, 02:51 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
Giving Patrick Sharp and Marian Hossa an extra faceoff win every two games is pretty deadly.
Seriously?

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Old
12-05-2012, 02:52 PM
  #43
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Nope.

Hjalmarsson would be an almost perfect addition for the Leafs, but there's just no way they can afford to trade their #1 centre for a middle-of-the-lineup defenceman.
They need to start doing better than Bozak, he is at best a 3rd line center. saying you need boza is sad, especially when grabo is the only guy ahead of him on the depth chart, truly sad. Makes me think they need to burn it all to the ground and start over with a new GM

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Old
12-05-2012, 02:53 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
Tyler Bozak 52.7%

Bolland 48.4%

Bozak is a great complimentary player. He would be a great fit for Chicago. However as many have said, Toronto needs him to play with Kessel.

As many will love to deny, he is a good hockey player. 47 points in 74 games is not to shabby. We can make the argument of playing between kessel and lupul (which didnít always happen), but he would be playing with very talented hockey players in Chicago.
Who cares about face% Bolland is a much better player

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Old
12-05-2012, 03:08 PM
  #45
HockeyGuruPitka
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Who cares about face% Bolland is a much better player
I know... This isnt about bozak vs bolland, read through the thread.

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Old
12-05-2012, 03:11 PM
  #46
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1for1 swap and I would do it. Sure bozak is our number one center now, but I would hope Burke gets an upgrade soon whether it be through free agency or trade. There is no room for bozak once we find a legit #1 and we could really use a player like hammer

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Old
12-05-2012, 03:15 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Did Stalberg and Bozak play together?

Could always stick those 2 with Hossa and put together the STK line
Stalberg - Bozak - Hanson

The "Frat Pack"

They all played together with the Marlies their first pro season and then the Leafs the second half of the season. Although, Bozak got promoted to play with Kulemin and Kessel fairly quickly.

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Old
12-05-2012, 03:32 PM
  #48
Pheasant the peasant
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1for1 swap and I would do it. Sure bozak is our number one center now, but I would hope Burke gets an upgrade soon whether it be through free agency or trade. There is no room for bozak once we find a legit #1 and we could really use a player like hammer
Even if we bank on finding a real #1 center soon (which is pretty unlikely, we've been looking forever). The bolded claim is still not all that true.

The Leafs have depth at defense. Phaneuf, Gunnarsson, Gardiner, Liles and Reilly. 5 guys who are all capable of being top 4 now or soon. Add Percy, Franson and Holzer as guys who all have a chance to progress to that point. And even then there are a couple real long shots like Blacker and Ranger.

This is a position of strength, not a need. We dealt Schenn for a reason, and it's not because we need more defense. Especially not at the cost of our second best center, and 2 million in cap space (Hjalmarsson makes 3.5).

I like the value here, I honestly do think it is close. But the Leafs just don't need to make the deal.

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Old
12-05-2012, 06:08 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
Seriously why do we need bozak. I mean if you look at the amount of goals scored off the rush you notice. That Bozak only contributed on two of them where he carried the puck. (Both of which were Kessel goals where as Lupul Managed to score 7 off the rush (6 being carried by Kessel.) Bozak is just a replaceable cog in this system.
From a purely objective standpoint, I'd agree with you. That line needs to be changed regardless (horrid defensive play, their offensive zone time of posession needs to increase, meaning JvR has to play on the LW), and as a result Tim Connolly might turn out to be a better alternative on the first line than Tyler Bozak.

The problem is -- with how successful that line was offensively last year, from a team dynamic standpoint, you can't break them up unless you're getting a clear upgrade in doing so. Tim Connolly is anything but a clear upgrade over Tyler Bozak.

It's just asking Phil Kessel and Joffrey Lupul to have a terrible start to the year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pheasant the peasant View Post
Even if we bank on finding a real #1 center soon (which is pretty unlikely, we've been looking forever). The bolded claim is still not all that true.

The Leafs have depth at defense. Phaneuf, Gunnarsson, Gardiner, Liles and Reilly. 5 guys who are all capable of being top 4 now or soon. Add Percy, Franson and Holzer as guys who all have a chance to progress to that point. And even then there are a couple real long shots like Blacker and Ranger.

This is a position of strength, not a need. We dealt Schenn for a reason, and it's not because we need more defense. Especially not at the cost of our second best center, and 2 million in cap space (Hjalmarsson makes 3.5).

I like the value here, I honestly do think it is close. But the Leafs just don't need to make the deal.
The problem is in the type of defencemen we have. How many of those are reliable, stay at home guys? Gunnarsson? Sure, Phaneuf? probably falls on the borderline, beyond that, it's all puckmovers or bottom pairing guys. Hjalmarsson is a near perfect fit on our 2nd pair, comes at a cost that makes complete sense in that position, and fits into the age bracket of our team.

We dealt Schenn because he needed a change of scenery, and it allowed us to address the major issue of size up front. He did however need to be replaced as soon as he was traded.

A defence of Phaneuf/Gunnarsson, Gardiner/Hjalmarsson, and Liles/Komisarek with Holzer as the #7 and Rielly as a long term project may not be one of the league's top units, but that's a group with a ton of depth, 3 very reliable pairings, and a very bright future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anderson55 View Post
Who cares about face% Bolland is a much better player
I think you're missing the point entirely. You play Bozak as the #2 centre with some of the bigger guns because he's a competent offensive player who's accustomed to playing alongside his team's stars. Bolland is one of the best 3rd line centres in the league, but he just doesn't have the offensive game to play a top 6 role.

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Old
12-05-2012, 09:52 PM
  #50
Sevanston
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
I think you're missing the point entirely. You play Bozak as the #2 centre with some of the bigger guns because he's a competent offensive player who's accustomed to playing alongside his team's stars. Bolland is one of the best 3rd line centres in the league, but he just doesn't have the offensive game to play a top 6 role.
Wrong.

Bolland's looked good every single time he's played on the second line.

The reason why he's still on the 3rd line is a mystery to all of us.

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