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Bluth Company Trade/Lineup Thread PT 3: Offseason Edition

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Old
12-11-2012, 11:48 AM
  #826
dunner
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Look at my D and tell me that Rielly is integral? My worst D on my roster is 79ovr and I have 2- 4 star D prospects in Morrow and Dumba. Someone has to be the odd man out.

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12-11-2012, 11:49 AM
  #827
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Freaking HF. Stop being broken.

Anyway, Nick, if you don't have the pieces to trade for top players, then you aren't going to be in the trading market for top players. How often do you see a "franchise player for franchise player" trade? It isn't a realistic scenario for a reason.

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12-11-2012, 11:51 AM
  #828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArGarBarGar View Post
Freaking HF. Stop being broken.

Anyway, Nick, if you don't have the pieces to trade for top players, then you aren't going to be in the trading market for top players. How often do you see a "franchise player for franchise player" trade? It isn't a realistic scenario for a reason.
He does have the pieces he just isn't allowed to use them.

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12-11-2012, 11:52 AM
  #829
Jack de la Hoya
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Freaking HF. Stop being broken.

Anyway, Nick, if you don't have the pieces to trade for top players, then you aren't going to be in the trading market for top players. How often do you see a "franchise player for franchise player" trade? It isn't a realistic scenario for a reason.
And this is the problem with the rule about requiring an overpayment to get a franchise player.

We've already established that, in this game, Anisimov + Dubinksy + Erixon + 1st would be vetoed for Nash.

It follows that Schenn + Simmonds + 2nd would be vetoed for Richards, or Voracek + Couturier + 3rd for Carter, or Setoguchi + Coyle + 1st for Burns, etc.

Basically, you can't trade franchise assets to get franchise players, and you can't make the realistic 3-for-1 swaps to get them either. Basically, they can't be traded.

(If that's the rule, that's fine, but then I think a bit more restrictive definition of "franchise player" is required.)

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12-11-2012, 11:52 AM
  #830
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If overall ratings were key, then I think it is pretty clear that most of the prospects wouldn't be considered untouchable, right?
Prospects are different than a player who has finished improving. And that is only a single factor.

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It seems to me that Yandle falls under the face-of-the-franchise type designation, much like Ryan Callahan on the Rangers (at best, in year 1, the team's 8th best player (Lundquist, Gaborik, Nash, Richards, McDonagh, Staal, Girardi).
Isn't Callahan their captain? Not the same whatsoever.

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That said, I don't necessarily think he has to be placed in the "franchise" category. I just think he has to be placed there if comparable players are. For the same reason, Sharp should be considered part of the Blackhawks core, IMO.
Who is comparable? On Phoenix you had Doan, Eberle, OEL, Hanzal, and even Boedker on a higher "franchise status" than Yandle. There can only be so many players that represent a franchise, and Yandle's offensive talent wasn't one of them.

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He does have the pieces he just isn't allowed to use them.
Is it really a realistic scenario to trade away players who are the face of your franchise to players who are the face of another franchise?

I'll ask again, how many times has this happened in the last 10 years?

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12-11-2012, 11:54 AM
  #831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArGarBarGar View Post
Freaking HF. Stop being broken.

Anyway, Nick, if you don't have the pieces to trade for top players, then you aren't going to be in the trading market for top players. How often do you see a "franchise player for franchise player" trade? It isn't a realistic scenario for a reason.
Ah she's fixed now.

Not that often, but how often do you see this many trades in general over the course of a season.

My point is that I don't really forsee someone accepting a trade for one of their franchise players without getting one in return. Which according to Fuss isn't allowed.

Hell just last season my team did a prospect swap with Hodgson and Kassian. Both are "franchise prospects" in real life.

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12-11-2012, 11:55 AM
  #832
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Originally Posted by ArGarBarGar View Post
Prospects are different than a player who has finished improving. And that is only a single factor.

Isn't Callahan their captain? Not the same whatsoever.

Who is comparable? On Phoenix you had Doan, Eberle, OEL, Hanzal, and even Boedker on a higher "franchise status" than Yandle. There can only be so many players that represent a franchise, and Yandle's offensive talent wasn't one of them.
If we are making all team captains untouchable, then I agree. Otherwise, Yandle and Callahan aren't that far apart, IMO, but you're right, Doan makes more sense in that way.

I was talking about default rosters--not necessarily how things stand now. It seems to me that, if we were making a list of Phoenix's franchise assets at the start of a GM mode, it would be Doan, OEL, and Yandle, right?

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12-11-2012, 11:57 AM
  #833
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
If we are making all team captains untouchable, then I agree. Otherwise, Yandle and Callahan aren't that far apart, IMO, but you're right, Doan makes more sense in that way.

I was talking about default rosters--not necessarily how things stand now. It seems to me that, if we were making a list of Phoenix's franchise assets at the start of a GM mode, it would be Doan, OEL, and Yandle, right?
Possibly, but Yandle is much further down in my opinion than either Doan or OEL are. And over the first couple seasons I believe Hanzal and Boedker proved themselves to be more worthy of that "franchise" tag than Yandle did.

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12-11-2012, 11:58 AM
  #834
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Ah she's fixed now.

Not that often, but how often do you see this many trades in general over the course of a season.

My point is that I don't really forsee someone accepting a trade for one of their franchise players without getting one in return. Which according to Fuss isn't allowed.

Hell just last season my team did a prospect swap with Hodgson and Kassian. Both are "franchise prospects" in real life.
Neither of those guys are franchise prospects. They might have been the best prospects for their teams, Kassian was made expendable by the emergence of Foligno. There's tons of rumours around around Hodgson and his issues between himself, his dad and Gillis.

I definitely wouldn't classify them as "franchise", maybe I'm the only one that shares that opinion though.

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12-11-2012, 11:58 AM
  #835
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Neither of those guys are franchise prospects. They might have been the best prospects for their teams, Kassian was made expendable by the emergence of Foligno. There's tons of rumours around around Hodgson and his issues between himself, his dad and Gillis.

I definitely wouldn't classify them as "franchise", maybe I'm the only one that shares that opinion though.
What about Brayden Schenn, circa the Mike Richards deal?

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12-11-2012, 11:58 AM
  #836
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Originally Posted by ArGarBarGar View Post
Possibly, but Yandle is much further down in my opinion than either Doan or OEL are. And over the first couple seasons I believe Hanzal and Boedker proved themselves to be more worthy of that "franchise" tag than Yandle did.
In Real life?

No Chance!

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12-11-2012, 11:59 AM
  #837
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In Real life?

No Chance!
In real life Yandle would have emerged as a better player than what NHL 13 placed him as.

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12-11-2012, 12:01 PM
  #838
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What about Brayden Schenn, circa the Mike Richards deal?
I didn't say anything about Schenn. Why are you asking me about Schenn?

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12-11-2012, 12:02 PM
  #839
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Originally Posted by ArGarBarGar View Post
In real life Yandle would have emerged as a better player than what NHL 13 placed him as.
I agree he got shorted a little but if we are going for realism and I think that's what this whole thing is about Yandle is Pheonix's best player. OEL will surpass him but hasn't yet.

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12-11-2012, 12:03 PM
  #840
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I agree he got shorted a little but if we are going for realism and I think that's what this whole thing is about Yandle is Pheonix's best player. OEL will surpass him but hasn't yet.
He did the year I made the trade.

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12-11-2012, 12:04 PM
  #841
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to the yandle argument, he is a franchise defenseman. Ask anyone in the Yotes organization if they'd let him go. I know its just a game but we do want to keep it realistic.

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12-11-2012, 12:04 PM
  #842
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Neither of those guys are franchise prospects. They might have been the best prospects for their teams, Kassian was made expendable by the emergence of Foligno. There's tons of rumours around around Hodgson and his issues between himself, his dad and Gillis.

I definitely wouldn't classify them as "franchise", maybe I'm the only one that shares that opinion though.
Cody Hodgson isn't a franchise prospect? Lol.

Should I list all of his accomplishments and draft position?

Hodgson was the best prospect the Canucks have seen since the Sedins.

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12-11-2012, 12:05 PM
  #843
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In Real life?

No Chance!
Your right there is no way yandle not a franchise defenseman.

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12-11-2012, 12:05 PM
  #844
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I didn't say anything about Schenn. Why are you asking me about Schenn?
Sorry, I'm trying to figure out when someone stops being a franchise prospect for the purposes of our list.

In other words, Grigorenko is a franchise asset on our list, but Schenn isn't. Last year, HF had Schenn rated as the second best prospect in the world, behind only RNH. Quibble with the ranking, but he was pretty clearly top-10 at the time.

To clarify, I'm asking because I'm trying to figure out what constitutes an acceptable overpayment for a franchise player.

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12-11-2012, 12:07 PM
  #845
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Sorry, I'm trying to figure out when someone stops being a franchise prospect for the purposes of our list.

In other words, Grigorenko is a franchise asset on our list, but Schenn isn't. Last year, HF had Schenn rated as the second best prospect in the world, behind only RNH. Quibble with the ranking, but he was pretty clearly top-10 at the time.

To clarify, I'm asking because I'm trying to figure out what constitutes an acceptable overpayment for a franchise player.
Once they're done being a franchise prospect they're obviously a franchise player lol.

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12-11-2012, 12:09 PM
  #846
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What I want to know is how is my team going to improve besides waiting a few years?

I have 7 guys that qualify for this franchise tag with only 3 of them rated over 80 ovr.
Without moving one of my best assets how do I attract a Gm into making a deal?

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12-11-2012, 12:09 PM
  #847
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Cody Hodgson isn't a franchise prospect? Lol.

Should I list all of his accomplishments and draft position?

Hodgson was the best prospect the Canucks have seen since the Sedins.
By all means, list them off. Canucks haven't exactly been successful with their drafting over the past ten years, so you'll excuse me if I don't consider Cody "franchise" Hodgson to be at the top of my list.

Edit: But he is easily their best prospect, so people don't think my whole purpose is to knock on Hodgson.


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12-11-2012, 12:14 PM
  #848
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to the yandle argument, he is a franchise defenseman. Ask anyone in the Yotes organization if they'd let him go. I know its just a game but we do want to keep it realistic.
Didn't you trade Henrik Zetterberg?

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12-11-2012, 12:15 PM
  #849
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I actually don't mind the deal because in most cases Cammaleri can be a No. 2 C but won't look out of place as a no.1 C. He's also not that old and has great offensive instincts.

Setoguchi is like what an 82 ovr? good shooting but meh everything else (from memory lol not sure)

Calgary is not in the playoffs right now so his 2nd round pick would be a high pick. Minny is in so the first round pick could potentially be a late one.

Thus, Minny gets a very early 2nd round pick to offset the 1st pick loss, and a top 2 C for pretty much a cap dump in Seto and a prospect Rielly (who is great) but could easily be replaced by Dumba or free agency.

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12-11-2012, 12:17 PM
  #850
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Didn't you trade Henrik Zetterberg?
Didn't I receive weber?

Yandle>>>>>>Carter at what he's supposed to do
Zetterberg= Weber at what they do. He needed scoring and I needed defense

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