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Red Sox/MLB 2012 Thread Part XXI-Maybe a Banner Year

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Old
12-17-2012, 10:32 AM
  #551
CDJ
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No, Iglesias clearly is not ready for the big leagues. He is still only 23, and another half year to year in Pawtucket would do him very well to work on his approach. Plus, we could sell Drew off at the deadline if Iglesias proves himself well. It is not blocking anybody- it is a short term, very tradeable contract that will be moved if Iglesias EARNS his time. What good would it do to have Iglesias come up and hit .170- that is how you ruin young players and their confidence.

This is more or less and insurance policy, and a damn good one. Batting Iglesias was like batting the pitcher. We were a NL team down the stretch. With Drew, we are getting one of the better SS in the game when healthy, and if we get Napoli signed, our lineup is actually looking quite solid. This is very similar to the Beltre signing.

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12-17-2012, 10:37 AM
  #552
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No, Iglesias clearly is not ready for the big leagues. He is still only 23, and another half year to year in Pawtucket would do him very well to work on his approach. Plus, we could sell Drew off at the deadline if Iglesias proves himself well. It is not blocking anybody- it is a short term, very tradeable contract that will be moved if Iglesias EARNS his time. What good would it do to have Iglesias come up and hit .170- that is how you ruin young players and their confidence.

This is more or less and insurance policy, and a damn good one. Batting Iglesias was like batting the pitcher. We were a NL team down the stretch. With Drew, we are getting one of the better SS in the game when healthy, and if we get Napoli signed, our lineup is actually looking quite solid. This is very similar to the Beltre signing.
Yes, because 83 plate appearances over 2 years is a large enough sampling to show he's clearly not ready. Even if he weren't, you don't know until you give the guy a chance. Since that's not happening, Drew is clearly blocking him, which you claimed was not the case with any of the other signings.

In terms of the Drew signing alone, you nailed it. If he can stay healthy. Since he hasn't been able to do so over the last 2 years, it's a big if.

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12-17-2012, 10:41 AM
  #553
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Yes, because 83 plate appearances over 2 years is a large enough sampling to show he's clearly not ready. Even if he weren't, you don't know until you give the guy a chance.
I hate this line of reasoning.

This is the Boston freaking Red Sox. You don't "give kids a chance" here. Kids earn their chance or they don't get it. Iglesias has earned nothing based on how he's hit in the minors. Until that changes he's going to be a mixed blessing at best in the blg leagues.

This is exactly the way other stud prospects like Lester, Pedey, and Youk, got their chance. They took the limited opportunities they did get and did something with them. If that's not something that Iglesias can use to establish himself, then maybe he was never that good anyway.

You don't give Iglesias a free chance at the big leagues for the same reason you made Pedroia beat Cora, made Ellsbury beat Crisp, and made Youk spend a few years playing behind an assortmant of vets until he made the job his own. If Iggy can beat Drew for the job he's definitely worthy of the job. If he can't, then having an option handy to deal with the fact that he wouldn't have done the job if given a chance is probably the smartest thing to do anyway.

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12-17-2012, 10:43 AM
  #554
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Yes, because 83 plate appearances over 2 years is a large enough sampling to show he's clearly not ready. Even if he weren't, you don't know until you give the guy a chance. Since that's not happening, Drew is clearly blocking him, which you claimed was not the case with any of the other signings.

In terms of the Drew signing alone, you nailed it. If he can stay healthy. Since he hasn't been able to do so over the last 2 years, it's a big if.
I believe it was the same injury that kept him out for those two years, so it isn't really a big if. He broke his ankle pretty badly if I recall.

Iglesias isn't ready because he OPS's under .600 at the AAA level (783 Ab's too...not a limited sample size). Explain that as being "ready"

Obviously his glove is other worldly, but christ almighty, can he just OPS .650 against ****** AAA pitchers. He clearly needs to work on his approach, and instead of having him do it in the majors where he would get demolished, they are going to have him do it against much more manageable stuff. You don't throw players who aren't ready to the wolves- that is how you KILL prospects.

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12-17-2012, 10:45 AM
  #555
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Pedroia sucked when he came up. I remember the talk about needing to send him back to Pawtucket, but Tito stuck with him.

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12-17-2012, 10:46 AM
  #556
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Pedroia sucked when he came up. I remember the talk about needing to send him back to Pawtucket, but Tito stuck with him.
What you probably don't remember is that he had to duel with Alex Cora in the first couple months of 07 to make 2B his own. Or that Cora put up one hell of a fight. Best 2 months I ever saw out of Cora while he was trying to hold Pedey off.

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12-17-2012, 10:47 AM
  #557
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I hate this line of reasoning.

This is the Boston freaking Red Sox. You don't "give kids a chance" here. Kids earn their chance or they don't get it. Iglesias has earned nothing based on how he's hit in the minors. Until that changes he's going to be a mixed blessing at best in the blg ueagues.

This is exactly the way other stud prospects like Lester, Pedey, and Youk, got their chance. They took the limited opportunities they did get and did something with them. If that's not something that Iglesias can use to establish himself, then maybe he was never that good anyway.

You don't give Iglesias a free chance at the big leagues for the same reason you made Pedroia beat Cora, made Ellsbury beat Crisp, and made Youk spend a few years playing behind an assortmant of vets until he made the job his own. If Iggy can beat Drew for the job he's definitely worthy of the job. If he can't, then having an option handy to deal with the fact that he wouldn't have done the job if given a chance is probably the smartest thing to do anyway.
If it was still the Boston Red Sox, I'd agree, but they aren't what they were. You're looking at a team that is going to top out around 75-80 wins, so what harm is giving a kid a shot in a season they're all but admitting is a bridge year???

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12-17-2012, 10:49 AM
  #558
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pedroia hit in college and the minors.

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12-17-2012, 10:49 AM
  #559
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Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
Yes, because 83 plate appearances over 2 years is a large enough sampling to show he's clearly not ready.
How about 700 AAA at bats where he's posted an OPS below .600??? Is that enough of a chance?

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Since he hasn't been able to do so over the last 2 years, it's a big if.
Prior to breaking his ankle, Drew was regularly playing 150 games a year. He broke his ankle on a play at the plate. He doesn't have a history of being injury prone.

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12-17-2012, 10:50 AM
  #560
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I'm thinking Drew is a stop gap for Bogaerts not Iggy, and they'll send Iggy down to work on his bat to be trade bait.

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12-17-2012, 10:53 AM
  #561
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If it was still the Boston Red Sox, I'd agree, but they aren't what they were. You're looking at a team that is going to top out around 75-80 wins, so what harm is giving a kid a shot in a season they're all but admitting is a bridge year???
Is this about what's best for the team, or the player? There's nothing saying that Iglesias can't beat Drew out for the job if he outplays him. And if he can't outplay Drew, why do you want him starting for the Red Sox?

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12-17-2012, 10:53 AM
  #562
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Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
If it was still the Boston Red Sox, I'd agree, but they aren't what they were. You're looking at a team that is going to top out around 75-80 wins, so what harm is giving a kid a shot in a season they're all but admitting is a bridge year???
This team was 60-66 before they gave up (Gonzo trade) and were right in the hunt for the wild card before Ortiz's injury, and that is with all of our problems included (not even having a single average starter by MLB standards, worst production in the MLB out of CF, etc).

If the starters improve a bit (Lester returns to normal, Buchholz pitches like he did in the 2nd half, Doubront improves, whatver), then this team is conceivably a playoff team.

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12-17-2012, 10:54 AM
  #563
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How about 700 AAA at bats where he's posted an OPS below .600??? Is that enough of a chance?


Prior to breaking his ankle, Drew was regularly playing 150 games a year. He broke his ankle on a play at the plate. He doesn't have a history of being injury prone.
Thank you so much. I thought I was taking crazy pills for a second.

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12-17-2012, 10:54 AM
  #564
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I'm thinking Drew is a stop gap for Bogaerts not Iggy, and they'll send Iggy down to work on his bat to be trade bait. essential depth to help the team get through 162 games in the event of injury
FTFY.

Anyone who thinks that the only two people who will play short for the Red Sox this year are Drew and possibly Ciriaco have no capacity to understand or remember basic history.

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12-17-2012, 10:54 AM
  #565
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Originally Posted by robert terwilliger View Post
pedroia hit in college and the minors.
Beat me to it.

Pedroia had a track record of being able to hit.

Iglesias has been horrible with the bat, even in the minors. No reason to think he is ready.

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12-17-2012, 10:57 AM
  #566
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FTFY.

Anyone who thinks that the only two people who will play short for the Red Sox this year are Drew and possibly Ciriaco have no capacity to understand or remember basic history.
Why can't you just be civil?

"I doubt they won't need Iglesias to play shortstop at some point this year. I look at him as far more likely to be a depth guy than trade bait. I don't have a lot of faith in us getting through the whole season with just Drew and Ciriaco being our starters at short."

I think Iglesias is trade bait too, but I lack the capacity to understand or remember the history of guys that never hit in the minors and never learned to suddenly hit in the majors.

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12-17-2012, 11:02 AM
  #567
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FTFY.

Anyone who thinks that the only two people who will play short for the Red Sox this year are Drew and possibly Ciriaco have no capacity to understand or remember basic history.
If you have Drew and Ciriaco on the opening day roster Bogaerts is your essential depth. By next year they can trade or have drafted a new essential depth SS that can actually hit a baseball.
The idea of Iggy blocking Bogaerts for even a single AB would be ridiculous.

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12-17-2012, 11:03 AM
  #568
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We'll probably only be able to get a year or two out of Bogaerts at SS before he becomes to big. He isn't the long term fix there- that is why we drafted Marrero and signed Lin

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12-17-2012, 11:10 AM
  #569
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We'll probably only be able to get a year or two out of Bogaerts at SS before he becomes to big. He isn't the long term fix there- that is why we drafted Marrero and signed Lin
Let me preface this with, I'm only comparing physical size. Isn't he about ARod size, and ARod played ten years at short, before getting traded to the Yankees. I don't see his size as a problem.

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12-17-2012, 11:14 AM
  #570
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If you have Drew and Ciriaco on the opening day roster Bogaerts is your essential depth. By next year they can trade or have drafted a new essential depth SS that can actually hit a baseball.
The idea of Iggy blocking Bogaerts for even a single AB would be ridiculous.
I'd agree with this if I wasn't at least a little concerned with Bogaerts' ability to play SS defensively.

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12-17-2012, 11:21 AM
  #571
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I'd agree with this if I wasn't at least a little concerned with Bogaerts' ability to play SS defensively.
You're a "little" concerned about his defense, and the rest of the world is extremely concerned about Iggy's bat.

As far as too big to play the position, ARod was 6'3" 190lbs his rookie year. Xander is 6'3" 175lbs right now. Again size isn't really a concern he just needs to play good defense. He won't be ARod, but he needs to be efficient.

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12-17-2012, 11:23 AM
  #572
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Hopefully Bogaerts uses the same Medicine Arod did. Iglesias trains with Arod in the offseason but clearly the doctor prescribed the wrong stuff.

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12-17-2012, 11:23 AM
  #573
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If it was still the Boston Red Sox, I'd agree, but they aren't what they were. You're looking at a team that is going to top out around 75-80 wins, so what harm is giving a kid a shot in a season they're all but admitting is a bridge year???
I dont think this team is doomed this upcoming season. There's a chance that none of these signings go well and they win 70-80 games, but there's also a chance dempster, Napoli*, victorino, and drew play well enough to support a healthy ortiz, middlebrooks and pedroia and the team wins 90. I think they could absolutley make the playoffs this year and the fact that they didn't mortgage the future to get there makes the future will look even brighter then the present. That is being misconstrued as them being in a bridge year but I just see that as good baseball operations balancing a competitive big league team with the commitment to improve as talented prospects make there way onto the roster

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12-17-2012, 11:25 AM
  #574
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I dont think this team is doomed this upcoming season. There's a chance that none of these signings go well and they win 70-80 games, but there's also a chance dempster, Napoli*, victorino, and drew play well enough to support a healthy ortiz, middlebrooks and pedroia and the team wins 90. I think they could absolutley make the playoffs this year and the fact that they didn't mortgage the future to get there makes the future will look even brighter then the present. That is being misconstrued as them being in a bridge year but I just see that as good baseball operations balancing a competitive big league team with the commitment to improve as talented prospects make there way onto the roster
I'd love if that were to happen.

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12-17-2012, 11:32 AM
  #575
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Let me preface this with, I'm only comparing physical size. Isn't he about ARod size, and ARod played ten years at short, before getting traded to the Yankees. I don't see his size as a problem.
Yes, they are roughly the same size, but Arod always had a more lean,athletic body type.

Bogaerts is going to be bulkier and more jacked. He never has had the same range/agility as Arod did either- remember, Arod used to be able to steal bases VERY proficiently. He was a special athlete for a guy his size. Right now, he could definitely play SS at the MLB level. But to get his bat to the next level (power wise), he is going to add some bulk to his wiry frame (and he already has started- he was noticeably thicker by the end of last season)

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