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Lockout Thread 2: Deal reached in early morning hours

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01-06-2013, 12:11 PM
  #701
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
So? Negotiate it and you don't waste a month. Don't walk out in 15mins.
Linkage was nonstarter

Fact Fehr kept delinking in all his proposals was nonstarter

Linkage/Cap were going nowhere ,, Fehr wasted time fighting on those issues

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01-06-2013, 12:14 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Linkage was nonstarter

Fact Fehr kept delinking in all his proposals was nonstarter

Linkage/Cap were going nowhere ,, Fehr wasted time fighting on those issues
You realize there are components of this deal that are not linked.

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01-06-2013, 12:15 PM
  #703
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To me it looks like Fehr didn't waste time with anything. The NHL wasn't going to give until the season was going to be lost. Players had to hold the line and they did. Got a pretty good deal, much better than what the NHL was offering 2 weeks ago

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01-06-2013, 12:16 PM
  #704
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
To me it looks like Fehr didn't waste time with anything. The NHL wasn't going to give until the season was going to be lost. Players had to hold the line and they did. Got a pretty good deal, much better than what the NHL was offering 2 weeks ago
I also never recall Fehr storming out or talking about taking two weeks off. He got the best possible deal for the PA and still saved a season.

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01-06-2013, 12:19 PM
  #705
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Blame game is gone and over with. Now we need to see how this affects the Hawks. Slightly higher cap is a good thing for us. Amnesty buyouts are good. Term limits is not. Salary arbitration clause is puzzling.

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01-06-2013, 12:22 PM
  #706
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I also never recall Fehr storming out or talking about taking two weeks off. He got the best possible deal for the PA and still saved a season.
I do remember Fehr taking 20 minutes to get a cup of water ,, And Fehr showing up 4 hours late for meeting ,, And lying to media/fans intentionally at news conference

And Bettman got great deal for owners ,, And still saved season

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01-06-2013, 12:23 PM
  #707
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Blame game is gone and over with. Now we need to see how this affects the Hawks. Slightly higher cap is a good thing for us. Amnesty buyouts are good. Term limits is not. Salary arbitration clause is puzzling.
Term limits doesn't bother me

I dont like the lifetime deals and think new setup is reasonable

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01-06-2013, 12:23 PM
  #708
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Hawks on possibly in 9 days. I don't know what to say!

The big fail in this agreement, I don't see how the revenue sharing model will help teams like Phoenix at all.

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01-06-2013, 12:25 PM
  #709
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup;57188705[B
]I do remember Fehr taking 20 minutes to get a cup of water ,, And Fehr showing up 4 hours late for meeting ,, And lying to media/fans intentionally at news conference[/B]

And Bettman got great deal for owners ,, And still saved season
Of course Bettman got a great deal, look at the last CBA. It was all take take take. All of the bold in your post is conjecture.

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01-06-2013, 12:34 PM
  #710
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You realize there are components of this deal that are not linked.
From my understanding, the only "de-linked" components of this deal are the make whole... something that was available (and specifically said to be negotiable) in October.

What seems to be happening in the wake of this deal is exactly what I feared Fehr was going for all along: people praising him for getting such a good deal while not acknowledging the fact that he lost the players more money through lost games than they will make through any of the things that he "won".

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01-06-2013, 12:41 PM
  #711
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Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
From my understanding, the only "de-linked" components of this deal are the make whole... something that was available (and specifically said to be negotiable) in October.

What seems to be happening in the wake of this deal is exactly what I feared Fehr was going for all along: people praising him for getting such a good deal while not acknowledging the fact that he lost the players more money through lost games than they will make through any of the things that he "won".
Exactly, the NHL has been proposing a delinked deal for some time.

With buy outs, contract terms, pensions, escrow and make whole, the PA will definitely recoup funds lost over those couple months relative to the deal that was offered in last Oct. You're not looking at the long term impact of those changes. The biggest one being variance.

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01-06-2013, 12:42 PM
  #712
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My last thing on this stupid lockout.

The owners are stupid for thinking the PA would fold earlier, that is THE ONLY reason this went on for so long. The Disclaimer looks like it did it's job, along with some pressure from TV contractors.

The players are stupid for what they said in the media, but I give them credit for fighting for what was right because they knew the NHL was taking taking taking, without much give. If they would of kept quite they would of looked more professional with what they were doing.

I'm glad I don't have to fight with anyone about this anymore, and hopefully we can all forget about this for another 8 years at least. Welcome back NHL, I will watch and cheer like I have in the past.. but you won't be getting my money.

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01-06-2013, 12:43 PM
  #713
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Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
From my understanding, the only "de-linked" components of this deal are the make whole... something that was available (and specifically said to be negotiable) in October.

What seems to be happening in the wake of this deal is exactly what I feared Fehr was going for all along: people praising him for getting such a good deal while not acknowledging the fact that he lost the players more money through lost games than they will make through any of the things that he "won".
How dumb do you think the players are? Do you think they can't comprehend how much they were losing vs what they stood to lose? People need to stop acting like Fehr is some wolf leading all of these helpless sheep to slaughter

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01-06-2013, 12:44 PM
  #714
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Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
What seems to be happening in the wake of this deal is exactly what I feared Fehr was going for all along: people praising him for getting such a good deal while not acknowledging the fact that he lost the players more money through lost games than they will make through any of the things that he "won".
While that is true for the current players this year, also keep in mind that the deal is better for players in the future and in future years than what the deal would have been if they had just accepted the first offer given by the NHL.

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01-06-2013, 12:46 PM
  #715
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Originally Posted by HawksFan74 View Post
Exactly, the NHL has been proposing a delinked deal for some time.

With buy outs, contract terms, pensions, escrow and make whole, the PA will definitely recoup funds lost over those couple months relative to the deal that was offered in last Oct. You're not looking at the long term impact of those changes. The biggest one being variance.
I am sorry, but this is 100% wrong. Almost all the issues you mentioned (buy outs, contract terms, and escrow) have nothing to do with how much the PA will make, only how that money is divvied up among its members. Make whole was on the table, and negotiable, in October. There is literally no way the players could make more money from this deal than they could have by negotiating off the October 82 game offer from the owners.


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01-06-2013, 12:47 PM
  #716
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Originally Posted by deytookerjaabs View Post
What seems to be happening in the wake of this deal is exactly what I feared Fehr was going for all along: people praising him for getting such a good deal while not acknowledging the fact that he lost the players more money through lost games than they will make through any of the things that he "won".
1 man's lost is another man's gain. The players are willing to take a short term hit to help out the union long term. That's why they are a union......

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01-06-2013, 12:47 PM
  #717
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
How dumb do you think the players are? Do you think they can't comprehend how much they were losing vs what they stood to lose? People need to stop acting like Fehr is some wolf leading all of these helpless sheep to slaughter
Care to enlighten me as to how the PA can make more from this deal than they could have had they negotiated off the October 82 game offer?

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01-06-2013, 12:48 PM
  #718
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Care to enlighten me as to how the PA can make more from this deal than they could have had they negotiated off the October 82 game offer?
Long term, not this year. Look at the big picture.

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01-06-2013, 12:49 PM
  #719
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Care to enlighten me as to how the PA can make more from this deal than they could have had they negotiated off the October 82 game offer?
They will still make 61% of their contracts this year, and 100% moving forward.

If you did the math with 43% share in NHLs first offer...I'm sure the 39% over 1 year would be a lot less.

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01-06-2013, 12:50 PM
  #720
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Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
I am sorry, but this is 100% wrong. Almost all the issues you mentioned (buy outs, contract terms, and escrow) have nothing to do with how much the PA will make, only how that money is divvied up among its members. Make whole was on the table, and negotiable, in October. There is literally no was the players could make more money from this deal than they could have by negotiating off the October 82 game offer from the owners.
No it's not?!?! You are talking about this season, I am talking about over the course of this deal relative to the Oct proposal.

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01-06-2013, 12:50 PM
  #721
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1 man's lost is another man's gain. The players are willing to take a short term hit to help out the union long term. That's why they are a union......
The same union they would have blownup if NHL wouldn't have gone extra mile to end this lockout?

Also the same longterm union that Fehr offered up as sacrafice to try and get earlier deal that would have punished guys coming into league years from now (Not guys currently in NHL)

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01-06-2013, 12:52 PM
  #722
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They will still make 61% of their contracts this year, and 100% moving forward.

If you did the math with 43% share in NHLs first offer...I'm sure the 39% over 1 year would be a lot less.
He's talking about the Oct deal to save the season. It wasn't the 43% one

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01-06-2013, 12:52 PM
  #723
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While that is true for the current players this year, also keep in mind that the deal is better for players in the future and in future years than what the deal would have been if they had just accepted the first offer given by the NHL.
The players agreed to 50/50. The "make whole" has nothing to do with future players. Future players will be coming into a league who's growth has been severely hampered by this lockout (the degree to which remains to be seen). All the contract limitations are nice, but all that affects is how the 50% is divvied up among the players, not how much the players collectively get. The only argument you can make for the future players is the pension plan (which I am sure the owners would have addressed had the PA said it was an important issue in October).

I find it hard to believe the argument that whatever the future players may have gained via pensions (which I maintain the owners would have had no problem dealing with in October had the PA made it a priority) makes up for the money lost by this lockout and its effect on the brand. Future players would have been better served with a healthy league playing a full 82 game schedule and building on what they have built since 2004-5.

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01-06-2013, 12:53 PM
  #724
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
They will still make 61% of their contracts this year, and 100% moving forward.

If you did the math with 43% share in NHLs first offer...I'm sure the 39% over 1 year would be a lot less.
And if you did it on the NHL's October offer?

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01-06-2013, 12:55 PM
  #725
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Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
The players agreed to 50/50. The "make whole" has nothing to do with future players. Future players will be coming into a league who's growth has been severely hampered by this lockout (the degree to which remains to be seen). All the contract limitations are nice, but all that affects is how the 50% is divvied up among the players, not how much the players collectively get. The only argument you can make for the future players is the pension plan (which I am sure the owners would have addressed had the PA said it was an important issue in October).

I find it hard to believe the argument that whatever the future players may have gained via pensions (which I maintain the owners would have had no problem dealing with in October had the PA made it a priority) makes up for the money lost by this lockout and its effect on the brand. Future players would have been better served with a healthy league playing a full 82 game schedule and building on what they have built since 2004-5.
You do understand future players gain by additional years on contract limits and variance, right? The figure they PA will gain from buy outs will be fairly large. In addition, changes have been make to make whole since October.

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