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Central Division All-Stars, F #1

View Poll Results: Central Division All-Stars #1F
Jonathan Toews 23 26.14%
Marian Hossa 2 2.27%
Vinny Prospal 0 0%
Brandon Dubinky 0 0%
Pavel Datsyuk 59 67.05%
Henrik Zetterberg 3 3.41%
Mike Fisher 0 0%
Martin Erat 0 0%
David Backes 1 1.14%
David Perron 0 0%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-09-2012, 01:15 PM
  #51
DanZ
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alright Brunette has been a pretty consistent 20 goal scorer throughout his career. Let's not exaggerate with these "greatest slug ever" comments. The guy has a decent shot at 300 career goals...

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12-09-2012, 03:21 PM
  #52
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alright Brunette has been a pretty consistent 20 goal scorer throughout his career. Let's not exaggerate with these "greatest slug ever" comments. The guy has a decent shot at 300 career goals...
He was the most useless player on the roster last year. As I have been doing with Datsyuk, I am not referring to the player anyone used to be years ago.

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12-09-2012, 06:34 PM
  #53
DatsyukianDeke
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That's cute, you're making things up now.

http://www.leftwinglock.com/line-com...gametype=ALL#A

Third most common was both Zetterberg and Cleary - played with them more or less the same amount last season.
I used the same website for Toews. Two of his three most common linemates were the only-recently-made-competent Viktor Stalberg and the greatest NHL slug of recent memory Andrew Brunette.
Sure, he had great quality beyond those two, but he played a ton of his minutes with them. And it's not as if Bertuzzi, Franzen, Cleary, etc. are bad players. They're all pretty solid. Not mentioning Zetterberg as I obviously put him on par with the various other Blackhawk stars.

If Datsyuk is far better than Jonathan Toews, he better still be winning Selkes regularly and putting up 90+ points every year.
Your linemate argument has already failed (and that argument is doomed for that from the beginning - do we label, say, John Tavares as an assured 100+ point player if given better linemates? No, we don't).

Again, if he is "much better," I want to see some proof on the ice. I don't see a difference on offense - there hasn't been one since 2009. Datsyuk gets a tiny edge defensively, and that may even be generous. We have two of the best defensive forwards in the league here.

Still wondering what exactly makes him the better player "by far." The only thing Wing fans have cited in response to that question so far is "Well, he scored 97 points four seasons ago."
Great. Unfortunately we're not talking about who has had the better career to date, we're talking about who's better right now. There is enough evidence to claim that Datsyuk has a small edge - just as I have done throughout this thread - but it reeks of bias to claim the gap is as large as some of you continue to insist.
Finally. Datsyuk is far better than Toews no matter how you look at it. Its really not even close.

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12-09-2012, 07:14 PM
  #54
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He was the most useless player on the roster last year. As I have been doing with Datsyuk, I am not referring to the player anyone used to be years ago.
Last year he sucked, but the year before he had 18 goals and the year before that he had 25. Far from useless. Maybe Chicago just wasn't using him right

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12-09-2012, 07:23 PM
  #55
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Finally. Datsyuk is far better than Toews no matter how you look at it. Its really not even close.
Uhh... not seeing how you proved me wrong?

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12-09-2012, 07:24 PM
  #56
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Last year he sucked, but the year before he had 18 goals and the year before that he had 25. Far from useless. Maybe Chicago just wasn't using him right
There was no way to use him "right." He was unbelievably slow, had no shot, and his puck pursuance was terrible. He also seemed to lose a great deal of the strength on the boards that made him so effective in prior years.

Please don't tell me you're seriously trying to argue Andrew Brunette was a competent top-six player last year. Hell, a competent player period.

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12-09-2012, 08:00 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by DatsyukianDeke View Post
Finally. Datsyuk is far better than Toews no matter how you look at it. Its really not even close.
I think you misread that quote bud.

and it's nice to see how blind you are to the game continue on.

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12-10-2012, 06:34 PM
  #58
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Uhh... not seeing how you proved me wrong?
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Originally Posted by sky04 View Post
I think you misread that quote bud.

and it's nice to see how blind you are to the game continue on.
Your blind if you can't see Datsyuk is by far better than Toews. Not even close. Poll says it all.

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12-10-2012, 06:53 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by DatsyukianDeke View Post
Your blind if you can't see Datsyuk is by far better than Toews. Not even close. Poll says it all.
Guess you don't know how to interpret data as well.

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12-10-2012, 07:00 PM
  #60
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Guess you don't know how to interpret data as well.
Data says Datsyuk is far better than Toews. 67% to 26% is huge. Datsyuk is better.

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12-10-2012, 10:01 PM
  #61
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Your best refutation is "you're wrong" and "look at the poll."

Again, there's the fallacy of believing an HF poll decides all things.

But I'll play your game, even if I think it's silly. You're claiming Datsyuk is far better and it's incredibly obvious. So why isn't he getting 90+% of the vote here? Why did more than just a few people vote against him?

You're simply a shameless homer, nothing wrong with that. I admire your passion for your hometown player. But it's evidently clouding your judgment.

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12-11-2012, 06:20 AM
  #62
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Your best refutation is "you're wrong" and "look at the poll."

Again, there's the fallacy of believing an HF poll decides all things.

But I'll play your game, even if I think it's silly. You're claiming Datsyuk is far better and it's incredibly obvious. So why isn't he getting 90+% of the vote here? Why did more than just a few people vote against him?

You're simply a shameless homer, nothing wrong with that. I admire your passion for your hometown player. But it's evidently clouding your judgment.
Datsyuk is by far better than Toews. I'm sorry you are unable to see it. By far better.

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12-11-2012, 06:33 AM
  #63
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Datsyuk
Toews
Hossa
Zetterberg
Kane

IMO

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12-11-2012, 08:56 AM
  #64
Chris Hansen
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Originally Posted by DatsyukianDeke View Post
Datsyuk is by far better than Toews. I'm sorry you are unable to see it. By far better.
When you get into an argument, you don't win by just repeating a conclusion five or six times.

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12-11-2012, 09:43 AM
  #65
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jesus.. datsyuk is way better than toews, no arguments necessary

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12-11-2012, 11:25 AM
  #66
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jesus.. datsyuk is way better than toews, no arguments necessary
If it is so obvious, I don't understand why nobody's been able to put up a convincing argument yet.

An argument that doesn't, of course, consist of "Datsyuk scored 97 points three years ago so he's better now."
Nope. Hasn't put up better offensive numbers than Toews since the year before Chicago's Cup season.

Comparable defensively, I'll give a slight edge to Datsyuk.

So once again, what makes him "way better than Toews?"
Is Datsyuk currently as good as Malkin? That's a player I'd consider "way better" than Toews. Heh, he's way better than anyone in the league period, save maybe his teammate if he's healthy.

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12-11-2012, 12:11 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by DatsyukianDeke View Post
Data says Datsyuk is far better than Toews. 67% to 26% is huge. Datsyuk is better.
Once again you do not know how to interpret the data. All that says is that more people think Datsyuk is better, it has no bearing on how much better they actually think he is.

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12-11-2012, 06:17 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by DatsyukianDeke View Post
Data says Datsyuk is far better than Toews. 67% to 26% is huge. Datsyuk is better.
Poll: Which number is higher? A) 99 or B) 100?

100% of participants choose B.

Is 100 much higher than 99?

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12-11-2012, 06:22 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Datsyuk Is Better
Poll: Which number is higher? A) 99 or B) 100?

100% of participants choose B.

Is 100 much higher than 99?
Except its 67% to 27%. Datsyuk is far better.

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12-11-2012, 06:23 PM
  #70
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Once again you do not know how to interpret the data. All that says is that more people think Datsyuk is better, it has no bearing on how much better they actually think he is.
It does.. Datsyuk is easily by far better player. Not even close.

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12-11-2012, 06:32 PM
  #71
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It does.. Datsyuk is easily by far better player. Not even close.
lol just a troll ignore him guys, he can't even come up with a reasonable argument.

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Old
12-11-2012, 06:39 PM
  #72
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I'll take a Conn Smythe over a couple Selke trophies personally, so that's a moot point. Datsyuk hasn't had a season well over a point per game in a couple years, it seems kinda odd to use that when determining a present All-Star. Datsyuk is still one of the best players in the league but he's clearly not scoring like he was from 2005-2006 to 2008-2009, whereas Toews is only 23 and consistently improving his game, he very well could outscore Datsyuk next season. Looking at the past 3 seasons (which, keep in mind, dates back to when Toews was only 21), Datsyuk has 0.95 points per game and Toews has 0.93 points per game. I'm not saying you shouldn't pick Datsyuk, but it's definitely close either way. I don't see how you can disagree with that, both players are producing at pretty similar rates, with Toews being one of the very few forwards in the NHL who can rival Datsyuk defensively.
So you'd take Mike Vernon over Henrik Lundqvist?

Great logic...

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12-11-2012, 06:48 PM
  #73
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lol just a troll ignore him guys, he can't even come up with a reasonable argument.
Go ahead. because Datsyuk will still be by far the better player.

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Old
12-13-2012, 02:13 PM
  #74
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Who needs stats to prove datsyuk is better? He's better. End of story.

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12-13-2012, 03:10 PM
  #75
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Who needs stats to prove datsyuk is better? He's better. End of story.
This x 10.

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