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RFA Signs with KHL for Two Years with NHL out (if better deal)

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Old
12-09-2012, 01:15 AM
  #1
RedWingsNow*
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RFA Signs with KHL for Two Years with NHL out (if better deal)

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/blog/ey...-deal-with-khl

O'Reilly becomes one of the first North American players who will use the KHL as leverage for a better NHL deal.

Interesting that the statement from the team isn't just that he has an out, but that.... he has an out IF the NHL offer is BETTER than theirs.
Quote:
Quote:
"It has been agreed by mutual consent that if Ryan is offered a contract on more lucrative terms in the National Hockey League, Metallurg will not interfere in that contract being concluded."

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12-09-2012, 02:28 AM
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At least they play hockey there. Meaning, he will get paid.

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12-09-2012, 02:29 AM
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Interesting. Since the only team he can negotiate with are the Avalanche, this puts a ton of leverage on O'Reilly's side. "Beat my offer in Metallurg, or lose me."

Considering O'Reilly is no scrub, he could have received a very lucrative offer from the Russian team. The terms were undisclosed.

It puts pressure on the Avalanche, once the season resumes, to either pay him or trade his rights. No matter what, O'Reilly is getting paid by someone.

Wonder if any other players who are RFA's (in the future, not just now) will try this to gain leverage.

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12-09-2012, 02:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan The Parade View Post
Interesting. Since the only team he can negotiate with are the Avalanche, this puts a ton of leverage on O'Reilly's side. "Beat my offer in Metallurg, or lose me."

Considering O'Reilly is no scrub, he could have received a very lucrative offer from the Russian team. The terms were undisclosed.

It puts pressure on the Avalanche, once the season resumes, to either pay him or trade his rights. No matter what, O'Reilly is getting paid by someone.

Wonder if any other players who are RFA's (in the future, not just now) will try this to gain leverage.
Too true. Maybe he is just breaking new ground here and this may well be the norm in the future. On the other hand, all the more reasons to end the lockout now as it is hurting both players and owners alike

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12-09-2012, 04:30 AM
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Interesting. This sort of market pressure will benefit the fans in the long run.

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12-09-2012, 04:48 AM
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Interesting. This sort of market pressure will benefit the fans in the long run.
You're going to have to explain how that works.

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12-09-2012, 10:00 AM
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MOD NOTE: This nominally belongs on Trade board, not BOH. (Unless there is a specific **business** aspect of a player transaction, in this case using leverage of KHL to get NHL deal, eventually.)


So, no player specific comments, head over to the Trade board for those.

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12-09-2012, 10:04 AM
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Mark Giordano did this with Calgary a few years ago, when they would not give him the one-way deal that he wanted. So he played with Dynamo Moscow for a year, came back and got his one-way, and the rest is history.

Although I think O'Reilly is the first North American that is already an established NHLer to use the KHL in this way. Really interesting, and given the improvement of the league since its inception, could make it a viable leverage option even without a lockout.

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12-09-2012, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan The Parade View Post
Interesting. Since the only team he can negotiate with are the Avalanche, this puts a ton of leverage on O'Reilly's side. "Beat my offer in Metallurg, or lose me."

Considering O'Reilly is no scrub, he could have received a very lucrative offer from the Russian team. The terms were undisclosed.

It puts pressure on the Avalanche, once the season resumes, to either pay him or trade his rights. No matter what, O'Reilly is getting paid by someone.

Wonder if any other players who are RFA's (in the future, not just now) will try this to gain leverage.
He's an RFA that can negotiate with any team in the NHL.

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12-09-2012, 11:00 AM
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Would be more helpful assessing how much leverage the KHL contract creates or doesn't if we knew what the salary was on it.

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12-09-2012, 12:40 PM
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He's looking out for #1.


Worked for Mark Giordano

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12-09-2012, 12:45 PM
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I can't imagine it will be something that'll be used in the future. Most RFA situations sort themselves out by the time training camp starts. A lockout year is a special case. Also, there are several risks to it. You could get injured. You might get greedy and the NHL team will let you stay in Russia for years.

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12-09-2012, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I can't imagine it will be something that'll be used in the future. Most RFA situations sort themselves out by the time training camp starts. A lockout year is a special case. Also, there are several risks to it. You could get injured. You might get greedy and the NHL team will let you stay in Russia for years.

Doesn't this overlook the fact that the NHL offer has to be higher than what the player is being paid in the KHL? In other words, he cannot get a release from the contract unless it's for a higher amount.

It's not just that they can come back for any NHL contract.

I also don't get why you would get into the unnecessary labeling of any of this as greedy. Is an NHL team not being greedy by trying to pay less money, and thus keep more for itself? When a player tries to maximize his earnings, in that case it's greed? Just unnecessary for people like you who can argue all the finer points of the economic discussion.

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12-09-2012, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Interesting. This sort of market pressure will benefit the fans in the long run.
What the players want and what fans want are mutually exclusive. In terms of contracts that is, everyone wants the cup.

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12-09-2012, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mant View Post
You're going to have to explain how that works.
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Originally Posted by Hynh View Post
What the players want and what fans want are mutually exclusive. In terms of contracts that is, everyone wants the cup.

I guess the point I was trying to make was that if there is another league that had the capital and level of interest to compete with the NHL for the same pool of players, than the NHL would have a stronger incentive to establish labor peace with it's union.

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12-09-2012, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Doesn't this overlook the fact that the NHL offer has to be higher than what the player is being paid in the KHL? In other words, he cannot get a release from the contract unless it's for a higher amount.

It's not just that they can come back for any NHL contract.

I also don't get why you would get into the unnecessary labeling of any of this as greedy. Is an NHL team not being greedy by trying to pay less money, and thus keep more for itself? When a player tries to maximize his earnings, in that case it's greed? Just unnecessary for people like you who can argue all the finer points of the economic discussion.
I think that was just the agreement in this case. There are no formal rules for this.

It's even possible the KHL team could decide to screw the player are refuse to terminate the contract, even if they agreed with the player to do it. It's highly unlikely but possible.

I don't think you understood the context the word "greedy" was used. It was only used to describe a situation where the players KHL contract is so rich that the NHL team don't want to match it and then the player is stuck in Russia. It had nothing to do with describing any characteristic of a players personality.

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12-09-2012, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I think that was just the agreement in this case. There are no formal rules for this.

It's even possible the KHL team could decide to screw the player are refuse to terminate the contract, even if they agreed with the player to do it. It's highly unlikely but possible.

I don't think you understood the context the word "greedy" was used. It was only used to describe a situation where the players KHL contract is so rich that the NHL team don't want to match it and then the player is stuck in Russia. It had nothing to do with describing any characteristic of a players personality.

Maximizing your own revenue or profit is the biggest defense offered up for the NHL's lockout. You cannot support that as a legitimate business goal on the one hand, but label someone else's efforts to maximize their own earnings as an emotional/value judgement-- like greed.

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12-09-2012, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Maximizing your own revenue or profit is the biggest defense offered up for the NHL's lockout. You cannot support that as a legitimate business goal on the one hand, but label someone else's efforts to maximize their own earnings as an emotional/value judgement-- like greed.
I wrote that the context I used greed in "had nothing to do with describing any characteristic of a players personality" and you respond claiming I did. Seriously?


Last edited by Crease: 12-09-2012 at 02:26 PM. Reason: Take it to PMs
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12-09-2012, 02:27 PM
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This is news because...?

He signed a deal to play overseas, like 200 other players. Of course he'll return when the NHL starts again.

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12-09-2012, 02:38 PM
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This is news because...?

He signed a deal to play overseas, like 200 other players. Of course he'll return when the NHL starts again.
He signed for 2 years not 1 like the rest, he doesn't have a contract and is an RFA, Colorado has a history for low balling its RFA's, this could pave the way to RFA's threatening to leave if not given a better offer meaning teams may no longer be able to underpay their RFA's comparable to what they would get on the open market.

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12-09-2012, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I think that was just the agreement in this case. There are no formal rules for this.

It's even possible the KHL team could decide to screw the player are refuse to terminate the contract, even if they agreed with the player to do it. It's highly unlikely but possible.

I don't think you understood the context the word "greedy" was used. It was only used to describe a situation where the players KHL contract is so rich that the NHL team don't want to match it and then the player is stuck in Russia. It had nothing to do with describing any characteristic of a players personality.
If the out clause is written into the terms of the contract, O'Reilly can take his case to court and force them to honor the deal, but even with all of the talk of shady characters in Russian hockey, I can't see them pulling a stunt like that. The potential backlash wouldn't be worth it.

It's likely that O'Reilly will go the Phil Kessel route to a new NHL club; a team will negotiate a trade contingent upon a deal being reached by O'Reilly's new club. I have a hard time seeing a team hang on to a player in this situation. Whether or not such a scenario emerges again remains to be seen.

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12-09-2012, 02:43 PM
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He signed for 2 years not 1 like the rest, he doesn't have a contract and is an RFA, Colorado has a history for low balling its RFA's, this could pave the way to RFA's threatening to leave if not given a better offer meaning teams may no longer be able to underpay their RFA's comparable to what they would get on the open market.
Yeah, but do you believe any of that for a second? If the KHL could compete in salary terms, they'd have done it years ago. This is bluster. This is the same smack Alex Ovechkin is talking. It's not like if the players sign the owners offer, the KHL will suddenly be financially competitive with the NHL. Not by a light year.

And even if Russia blew half it's GDP on signing one NHLer and his home team can't match it, good luck to him. He'll be the one lonely NHLer over there sucking up 3/4 of his team's payroll.

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12-09-2012, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Yeah, but do you believe any of that for a second? If the KHL could compete in salary terms, they'd have done it years ago. This is bluster. This is the same smack Alex Ovechkin is talking. It's not like if the players sign the owners offer, the KHL will suddenly be financially competitive with the NHL. Not by a light year.
We don't know any of that since the terms were not released only time will tell, but if this is a serious threat it could make a big difference for RFA's.

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12-09-2012, 02:48 PM
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We don't know any of that since the terms were not released only time will tell, but if this is a serious threat it could make a big difference for RFA's.
I'm just saying that nothing has changed about the KHL's finances. If they were in a position to bid up NHL free agents, they'd have been doing it all along. This doesn't smack of being business news. This is a angsty player telling his mom that he's going to run away from home because he doesn't have to live by her rules. He'll be back as soon as he runs out of peanut butter.

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12-09-2012, 02:51 PM
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I'm just saying that nothing has changed about the KHL's finances. If they were in a position to bid up NHL free agents, they'd have been doing it all along. This doesn't smack of being business news. This is a angsty player telling his mom that he's going to run away from home because he doesn't have to live by her rules. He'll be back as soon as he runs out of peanut butter.
The difference is KHL teams haven't been able to out bid all 30 nhl teams but they only have to outbid Colorado who have offered very little to ROR, if Colorado increases their offer at all then this tactic worked.

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