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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VIIII: "We're Close" "We're Not Close" Edition

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12-08-2012, 05:41 AM
  #301
Maineice11
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Quote:
Resnick said. “It seems like we might not be too far away from a deal here on a CBA, so what everyone is hoping is that he can get onto the ice with the Rangers as soon as possible.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...nkkkqmRpGKKfvO

Interesting article by Brooksie in the post. Mostly talking about Rick Nash's injury, (that is who he refers to in the quote above). He did interview Rick's agent and that is what the agent had to say about the lockout.

*I hope he is right!*

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12-08-2012, 05:45 AM
  #302
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@RealKyper
"Many NHL clubs giving #WJC Can team no guarantees #NHL prospects won't b pulled back after roster locked Dec 26th bcove.me/t6gokpj"

if that is true I hope that means the nhl clubs do feel they are close and there will be a season. (that is just speculation on my part after reading that tweet)

(sorry for 3 separate posts, after I finished one I found another quote and I hate editing posts)

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12-08-2012, 06:32 AM
  #303
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Peel away the BS. They are close to a deal. Bettman is pissed about compromising on some more issues. Fehr knows he will have to give some more. Term limits. CBA term length. Compliance issues. PA wants an easier transition. NHL has proposed a $60M cap for 13-14. No compliance buyouts. Players in the AHL counting against the cap. The NHL brass and some owners are intent on punishing the big market teams but they want those teams $ in increased revenue sharing.

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12-08-2012, 07:00 AM
  #304
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Peel away the BS. They are close to a deal. Bettman is pissed about compromising on some more issues. Fehr knows he will have to give some more. Term limits. CBA term length. Compliance issues. PA wants an easier transition. NHL has proposed a $60M cap for 13-14. No compliance buyouts. Players in the AHL counting against the cap. The NHL brass and some owners are intent on punishing the big market teams but they want those teams $ in increased revenue sharing.
Seems like the PA went to bat for teams on some issues this time around. Tried to fix the cap floor, revenue sharing... small franchise help. Now he is going after the buyout and still has to settle the AHL salary issue... big team help.

I know that all of it impacts the players positively, I'm not naive. But should revenue sharing be such a battle? Teams are allegedly worse off after your last cba, this at the least needs to be fixed equally by both sides.

The big teams stepped up ultimately. Don't screw the over now. It's like they capitulated on revenue sharing and the small teams said gee thanks, what else? They can't even compromise with each other and make this an easy transition.

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12-08-2012, 07:14 AM
  #305
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Your welcome 2k2. And I absolutely remembered that thread and loved it.
Scary thing was that there were huge numbers of us actually supporting each idea. It wasn't just done in jest.

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12-08-2012, 07:15 AM
  #306
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PA has proposed the cap being set at $67.25M for this and next season. $64.3M and $70.2M. $67.25M is the midpoint. NHL is at $70.2M and then $60M. NHL proposed salaries above $105,000 NHL in the AHL counting against the cap. PA proposed salaries about $1M in the AHL counting but only for new contracts signed under new CBA. The Toronto Star reported a deal would be made at the league minimum salary but the PA later proposed $1M only for new contracts. There is some leeway there but the NHL is being stubborn. Either give one compliance/amnesty buyout or allow teams to dump an existing contract in the AHL. Fehr was correct to shut it down. Bettman has to back off some more because the PA will need concede more ground on term limits and CBA lengh.

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12-08-2012, 07:18 AM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Maineice11 View Post
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...2KKcblDgRCPvfP

interesting article in the post by Everson
This guy lost credability in my eyes when he started suggesting candidates, especially Gretzkey and Lemieux.

Say what you want about Bettman, he is a shrewd business man. He can speak the language fortune 500 chairmans (aka owners), understands better than business people many areas of business. He should not directly be credited for the league's growth but his savvy and adaptability allowed the vision to be implemented and executed.

I do not like or agree with this lockout but I also don't believe there are more than a couple people who can do his job effectively and on a daily basis.

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12-08-2012, 07:47 AM
  #308
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I think he makes huge blunders and the league survives and does well regardless. He thinks he nails the cba and then he is back at the drawing board.

Or he just does what the owners wants and in that case why is he glorified/vilified? And no, he doesn't do a good job of getting 30 guys to agree. They can't work together and even transition smoothly. Screwing each other over.

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12-08-2012, 08:03 AM
  #309
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Originally Posted by in the hall View Post
This guy lost credability in my eyes when he started suggesting candidates, especially Gretzkey and Lemieux.

Say what you want about Bettman, he is a shrewd business man. He can speak the language fortune 500 chairmans (aka owners), understands better than business people many areas of business. He should not directly be credited for the league's growth but his savvy and adaptability allowed the vision to be implemented and executed.

I do not like or agree with this lockout but I also don't believe there are more than a couple people who can do his job effectively and on a daily basis.
True dat. Ken Dryden otoh...

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12-08-2012, 09:39 AM
  #310
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The First Hockey Game

(whenever it is played) should be played in front of an empty arena. The negotiations over the last three months have been laughable. A hollywood screenwriter couldn't come up with more ridiculous drama. Both sides have shown blatant disrespect to the fans above all else. A message needs to be sent. When they drop the puck again no one should be there to support either side.

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12-08-2012, 09:42 AM
  #311
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I'm such a sucker and I'd be...sucked into it. I can't deny my Rangers love.

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12-08-2012, 09:48 AM
  #312
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honestly this won't happen. I was at an AHL Showcase game at the Verizon Center in DC on Thursday, and although it was minor league hockey, it was hockey. About 70-75% of the arena was filled and a bunch of people I talked to said, "hockey is hockey" the fans will continue to show up.

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12-08-2012, 10:05 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by TrueBlue9 View Post
(whenever it is played) should be played in front of an empty arena. The negotiations over the last three months have been laughable. A hollywood screenwriter couldn't come up with more ridiculous drama. Both sides have shown blatant disrespect to the fans above all else. A message needs to be sent. When they drop the puck again no one should be there to support either side.
It's a nice thought, and I'd truly love to see that, but it would never happen.

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12-08-2012, 10:17 AM
  #314
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You see, if there was some level of agreement this week, hockey would have resumed on Dec. 22 with a 60-game schedule. It now appears we will lose that window and probably negotiate our way to a 48 game schedule that begins in mid-January. That's a 20 per cent reduction in games from Dec. 22 and therefore a 20 per cent reduction on the already prorated salaries. The players should be asking: If by waiting these additional few weeks, will they receive an offer that will compensate for the loss of that 20 per cent of salaries? They should also be asking, would accepting the owners' demands radically affect the projected growth potential of the game over the next decade?
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-l...s_in_jeopardy/

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12-08-2012, 12:02 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by TrueBlue9 View Post
(whenever it is played) should be played in front of an empty arena. The negotiations over the last three months have been laughable. A hollywood screenwriter couldn't come up with more ridiculous drama. Both sides have shown blatant disrespect to the fans above all else. A message needs to be sent. When they drop the puck again no one should be there to support either side.
Since this won't happen, maybe turning backs at opening faceoff or something. Silly probably, but at least it's something.

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12-08-2012, 12:20 PM
  #316
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From the same article, gary is asked if a prolonged lockout could jeopardize the franchises financially. Response: I'm afraid the wrong deal will do more harm.

Hmm, doesn't 50% essentially address the financial issues for the most part? That part is there. We are hung up on contracts now.

I'm not against some structure here. Its two fold. Loopholes and competitive balance. The players relented and agreed to controls, loopholes closed. I get the league's stance with balance. Put the franchises on equal footing and disperse the talent evenly. Big markets can't trump the rest and throw huge long term deals even w/o variance.

But how is that working in the NBA. Everyone's fear is an MLB type of talent concentration. But 4 (5 home town) year caps opened the door to super teams. Players scout the up and coming team and flock to that city. They circumvent the cba with sign and trades which kind of render the hometown thing as a farce.

The worst answer is "I don't know what the answer is to this problem of..." and here it is with talent distribution. I don't know how to fix it beyond the draft. But the league is going to "die on this hill" when we are seeing it might have the opposite effect anyway. And with Gary's track record, he has a tendency to miss the mark with these initiatives.
Am I wrong here? Do contract controls have an impact on the revenue that I'm not seeing?

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12-08-2012, 12:42 PM
  #317
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I was dwelling on why the players are losing support in the PR battle and I'm left with this thought:

!)like them or hate them everyone understands who the owners are and what they are trying to accomplish. Whether it's because of fines, whatever, We hear nothing from the owners.

2)The players start out as the guys we root for and the guys we generally like. As they become more vocal (and we hear their views) through the media/tweeting their support simply erodes.

Maybe they should be coached like the pitcher in the movie Major League:

1)I'm just happy to be here, and I hope I can help the hockey club.

2) I just wanna give it my best shot, and good Lord willing things will work out.

3)You got to play ‘em one day at a time.


nuff said.


Before this lockout I was ticked off at the owners (NY) raising my ticket prices yet again. How long will I keep paying $90 per seat? Now: Due to the lockout I've realized that both parties are sharing the proceeds evenly from increased ticket prices. When each side receives 50% of the proceeds I'm on my own.


Last edited by ltrangerfan: 12-08-2012 at 01:05 PM.
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12-08-2012, 01:37 PM
  #318
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I went to school with Bettiman and anyone who believes he is not exceptionally bright is mistaken.

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12-08-2012, 01:46 PM
  #319
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I went to school with Bettiman and anyone who believes he is not exceptionally bright is mistaken.
True, but that doesn't make him any less incompetent.

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12-08-2012, 01:57 PM
  #320
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If the league would have not allowed the salary cap circumventing contracts over the last few years we would most likely be watching NHL action already. Every contract that is signed has to pass through the league for approval. The league is tough on CBA negotiating but lax when it comes to running the leagues day to day operations.

Looking forward to watching football tomorrow. Hockey is missed but not as much as both sides think.

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12-08-2012, 01:57 PM
  #321
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True, but that doesn't make him any less incompetent.
What?

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12-08-2012, 02:01 PM
  #322
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Three thoughts I have from the past few days of debacle:

1. I can't believe that the "public" honestly has any allegiance to either of these sides at this point. All this talk about PR and frankly, I think both sides have acted with a blatant disregard for their fans, the "public," and I don't see how anybody can possibly be firmly behind either group. I understand the owners' desires more but if I saw one I'd tell him where to shove his lockout. Neither deserves anything like credit or what we'd call "good PR" and I really doubt that either side has much to speak of. Also, from day 1 I've failed to understand what the hell having the PR advantage is actually worth since it's impossible for fans to support JUST players or JUST owners. They're both arguing about all of our money. If you go to a game you support both. If you buy a jersey you support both. If you watch on TV you support both, etc. etc. etc.

2. I think a lot of the people who tend to side with the PA are drastically underestimating Bettman because he was pissed off and flustered after talks broke down. He may be calculating and devious but he is absolutely not stupid or weak. He will not be trampled in this. Neither will Fehr for his part. I'd bet almost anything that when this thing is said and done both sides will have semi-legitimate arguments about why their side won.

3. I am so, so glad that Prust isn't on this team anymore after being pretty bummed about losing him initially. He's great as a player on the ice, but boy is he terrible as a PA personality.

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12-08-2012, 02:04 PM
  #323
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Marty Biron is one of the chattiest guys in the league and he has been graceful enough to not vent via twitter. Del Zotto is the biggest violator in that regard.

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12-08-2012, 02:04 PM
  #324
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What?
I think he is saying results and IQ are not one and the same.

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12-08-2012, 02:10 PM
  #325
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Marty Biron is one of the chattiest guys in the league and he has been graceful enough to not vent via twitter. Del Zotto is the biggest violator in that regard.
DZ hasn't been bad IMO. Maybe I have a bias but I honesty don't remember much complaining from DZ. rupper has been pretty bad.

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