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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VIIII: "We're Close" "We're Not Close" Edition

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Old
12-12-2012, 03:14 PM
  #651
Riche16
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Originally Posted by PassShootScore View Post
@TEAM1040: RT @jkthn: Hearing owners reverted to $211M make whole offer as today's starting point (plus $50M for pension). Curious.
Good.

"We'll bump it to 300M"

-silence-

"Okayyyyyyy"

At some point it's as good as its going to be... That was probably last week.

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Old
12-12-2012, 03:15 PM
  #652
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If I made an offer I thought was incredibly generous and that would be accepted right away, i'd probably b a little miffed and back up in future conversations if it got scoffed at.

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12-12-2012, 03:18 PM
  #653
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Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
Mediation and discussion today planned as a 1-day exercise. If subsequent meeting is called for tomorrow that will be a good thing.

Nick Kypreos ‏@RealKyper
#NHLPA's Ron Hainsey looks right at me in the lobby of the #CBA #NHL meeting and says "so much for the secret location"

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12-12-2012, 03:18 PM
  #654
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“@DarrenDreger: Mediation and discussion today planned as a 1-day exercise. If subsequent meeting is called for tomorrow that will be a good thing.”

“@DarrenDreger: ...By good thing, I don't mean an indication a deal is imminent. Going into the day it didn't sound like NHL was willing to be flexible.”

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12-12-2012, 03:19 PM
  #655
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That offer is just 39m less. The last one was 250 plus 50 pension.

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12-12-2012, 03:19 PM
  #656
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If I made an offer I thought was incredibly generous and that would be accepted right away, i'd probably b a little miffed and back up in future conversations if it got scoffed at.
Meh. I think it's all a game. These owners are all hardened business men and I am sure they were trying to make it seem like a better deal than it was.

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12-12-2012, 03:26 PM
  #657
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Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
@DarrenDreger: Mediation and discussion today planned as a 1-day exercise. If subsequent meeting is called for tomorrow that will be a good thing.

@DarrenDreger: ...By good thing, I don't mean an indication a deal is imminent. Going into the day it didn't sound like NHL was willing to be flexible.
The longer this goes the less flexible they will be.

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12-12-2012, 03:36 PM
  #658
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The longer this goes the less flexible they will be.
Then they're gonna lose a season

This isn't the time for either side to dig in about ****

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12-12-2012, 03:44 PM
  #659
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Then they're gonna lose a season

This isn't the time for either side to dig in about ****
Depends. Maybe they moved a bit on contract terms as a result.

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12-12-2012, 03:48 PM
  #660
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Depends. Maybe they moved a bit on contract terms as a result.
Perhaps, but doing so would mean they're being flexible. There's gotta be some give and take at this point and both sides gotta realize it's time to get something done

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12-12-2012, 04:04 PM
  #661
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Perhaps, but doing so would mean they're being flexible. There's gotta be some give and take at this point and both sides gotta realize it's time to get something done
Well to be fair, if you want to call the baseline the point where the two sides were before last week's players/owners meeting, then the owners did move on the make-whole, and it was met with crickets.

Don Fehr and the PA's fatal flaw has been treating the baseline as if its the last CBA. If you look at it that way, then its easy to stir up the base into believing they're the ones making major concessions.

Nevermind that most of them are critical to the long-term success of a 30 team NHL, that carries 750 PA jobs with it.

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12-12-2012, 04:06 PM
  #662
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
That offer is just 39m less. The last one was 250 plus 50 pension.
Yeah, the fewer games they can get in makes the make-whole number proportionately higher. That $39 million likely reflects that.

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12-12-2012, 04:08 PM
  #663
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Yeah, the fewer games they can get in makes the make-whole number proportionately higher. That $39 million likely reflects that.
Maybe both sides will eventually realize the dollars they're fighting over in the future are the ones they're losing today.

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Old
12-12-2012, 04:09 PM
  #664
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Maybe both sides will eventually realize the dollars they're fighting over in the future are the ones they're losing today.
You still have hope for that? You're a patient gent.

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12-12-2012, 04:17 PM
  #665
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https://twitter.com/RealKyper/status/278985595827654656

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#CBA meeting over. No progress. #NHL remains firm on "take it or leave it" last offer to #NHLPA.
What were they talking about all that time then?

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12-12-2012, 04:26 PM
  #666
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Well to be fair, if you want to call the baseline the point where the two sides were before last week's players/owners meeting, then the owners did move on the make-whole, and it was met with crickets.

Don Fehr and the PA's fatal flaw has been treating the baseline as if its the last CBA. If you look at it that way, then its easy to stir up the base into believing they're the ones making major concessions.

Nevermind that most of them are critical to the long-term success of a 30 team NHL, that carries 750 PA jobs with it.
I don't believe you can just arbitrarily pick a point in time and call that the baseline. The PA is absolutely correct to be looking at the last CBA as a starting point to all of this, and they've given up a pretty good amount at that point. The only true concession the NHL has made is more revenue sharing, which was easy since they ultimately aren't "losing" that money to the PA. The NHL has gained the biggest win with the 50-50 and they have the players willing to put limits on contracts, even if the details aren't agreed on.

I also don't believe this fixes the leagues long term health. The NHL has been run poorly for decades and slashing the players share every new CBA will only get you so far and ultimately will do nothing at all to solve the real problems of revenue disparity around the league.

This CBA plan is at best a bandaid

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12-12-2012, 04:26 PM
  #667
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
https://twitter.com/RealKyper/status/278985595827654656



What were they talking about all that time then?
I don't know, but there's a way to spin that as a good sign. It means the NHL finally isn't making things up when they say this is their best offer.

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Old
12-12-2012, 04:30 PM
  #668
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https://twitter.com/SunGarrioch/stat...88147617067008

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Here's what the players have to decide: Is the deal going to ge better the longer they wait? Doesn't sound like it. #NHL #NHLPA
https://twitter.com/MattBarnaby3636/...88506402000896

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That's what i asked goodenow lol @SunGarrioch

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Old
12-12-2012, 04:33 PM
  #669
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Well so far it has gotten better the longer they've waited, despite people asking that question repeatedly

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Old
12-12-2012, 04:35 PM
  #670
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
https://twitter.com/RealKyper/status/278985595827654656



What were they talking about all that time then?
Maybe the location offered free coffee?

Im surprised the mediator hasnt thrown himself out the window yet after running between rooms filled with these idiots.

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Old
12-12-2012, 04:40 PM
  #671
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I don't believe you can just arbitrarily pick a point in time and call that the baseline. The PA is absolutely correct to be looking at the last CBA as a starting point to all of this, and they've given up a pretty good amount at that point. The only true concession the NHL has made is more revenue sharing, which was easy since they ultimately aren't "losing" that money to the PA. The NHL has gained the biggest win with the 50-50 and they have the players willing to put limits on contracts, even if the details aren't agreed on.

I also don't believe this fixes the leagues long term health. The NHL has been run poorly for decades and slashing the players share every new CBA will only get you so far and ultimately will do nothing at all to solve the real problems of revenue disparity around the league.

This CBA plan is at best a bandaid
I agree with the latter part of this. But these people are on the payroll to say that hockey and hockey players are the greatest thing since sliced bread. There aren't going to be any structural changes to the game until they realize it is indeed and niche sport. Some magic bullet certainly isnt going to happen now, so late into these so-called negotiations.

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Old
12-12-2012, 04:47 PM
  #672
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https://twitter.com/KatieStrangESPN/...93566620082177

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#CBA Bill Daly said nothing new to report. Two sides were never in same room. Unclear whether two sides will meet again tmrw
Not in the same room figuratively, or were they actually not in the same room?

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Old
12-12-2012, 04:49 PM
  #673
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Seems like every member of the media has jumped on the "offer is only getting worse, players should cave" train.

They're all sheep.

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Old
12-12-2012, 04:50 PM
  #674
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
https://twitter.com/KatieStrangESPN/...93566620082177


Not in the same room figuratively, or were they actually not in the same room?
They were in separate rooms. The mediators go back and forth between the rooms with the others side views/ideas.

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12-12-2012, 04:55 PM
  #675
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$18-20 million dollar loss PER day...

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