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2012 CBA/Lockout talk, It's not looking good VI

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12-10-2012, 05:44 PM
  #601
Gee Wally
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They should meet at Rosie's Place or The Pine Street Inn . A ****ing dose of reality may be just what all those greedy ******** need.

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12-10-2012, 05:47 PM
  #602
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Without MASSIVE changes to what is being negotiated (i.e. number of games, number of teams, number of players in league, etc.), there is not a business on the planet that scraps the previous deal and starts from scratch for a new negotiation. It's not reality.
Sure they do, they do it all the time. Especially when the economic landscape changes drastically from one agreement to the next. And the NHL didn't "scrap" the previous agreement at all. They could, they could blow it all up and make demands (such as non guaranteed contracts) that would be hugely beneficial to their cause, but contrary to popular belief they do want hockey this year and they are being fair to the players (not because they're all hearts and rainbows but because not doing so isn't in their best interests for a plethora of reasons). The "they're being unfair" argument makes no sense, they are guaranteeing players millions and millions of dollars, give them incredible benefit packages, pay for the best trainers and medical staff, worry incessantly about player safety, etc... You'd have to be in a pretty opaque bubble to suggest the players aren't being treated fairly in the NHL. Many many things remain completely unchanged in this CBA. The economic landscape however has changed over the past 8 years so it only makes sense the economics in the CBA will as well. Players know this as do the owners, hence why the economics of the next CBA are already agreed upon.

Getting the owners to raise the make whole bar to 300 million was a huge concession in my opinion because I believe the economics changed to a point where a 57/43 split no longer made sense, the fact that so many teams are failing to turn a profit support that. Therefore I don't see 57% players share as the starting point for discussions and I don't see the huge concessions from the players side.

So they've dealt with those issues and agreed on 50/50 with 300 million make whole. Boom, that's he big issue taken care of... now the real hangup is the contract length issue. The owners have proposed a realistic solution to cap circumvention, something that absolutely needs to happen to protect the lower revenue teams rights and the overall parity of the league, which I still contend is the biggest reason for the increased popularity and revenue for the sport. The players of course want nothing to do with that, but why not? It's a loophole that was exposed in the last CBA, it's not a player right that's being taken away. The players don't want the loophole closed as it's existence forces GMs to lock them into long term lucrative contracts regardless of production or injury. Every employee of every company out there would love to do the same, to be able to guarantee compensation over an extended period of time regardless of how well they do that job, but not many business owners would support such a stipulation as it makes for a horrible business model.

It has nothing to do with mid tier contracts and everything to do with the way the top end players contracts are structured. Successful teams don't spend all their cap on one or two players, they spread it out over the entire roster for the best chance of success. Players suggesting it does is an insult to our intelligence, it might fool the pink hat fans but come on. Anyone with an understanding of the way NHL teams work under a cap can spot the error pretty easily.

Honestly, I can't figure the unwillingness to go to a 10 year CBA out at all. It makes so much sense for everyone. The only thing I can think of is players want a chance to reargue their share of revenues sooner rather then later if the NHL teams begin to make serious money, but that seems like an awfully individualistic goal to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMiller View Post
Westgarth says the owners brought in to flank Jacobs and Edwards didn't have much of a sense for where negotiations were or what proposals were made.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/10/sp...bor-talks.html
So he's suggesting Burkle showed up unprepared and uninformed? It'd be interesting, as it's not a position you usually find billionaires in when it comes to something that so affects their finances.


Last edited by Kaoz*: 12-10-2012 at 07:55 PM.
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12-10-2012, 05:48 PM
  #603
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they should meet at the pond where Bobby Orr used to play hockey as a kid to remind everyone involved what the game is all about.

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12-10-2012, 06:00 PM
  #604
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[QUOTE=Kaoz;56412641] You could completely swap out every Boston Bruin and every Montreal Canadian with hobos and people would still rail for blood when the two met. Same with the Rangers... those places are strong hockey markets and you'll continue to see fan interest in those places regardless of if you dressed an entire AHL team.

Yes, but: Remember what happened here before '07. It took many years of absorbing body blows from Jacobs & Sinden (and to a lesser extent, OC), but Bruins fans finally began voting with their feet.

Perhaps blind loyalty & rooting for the laundry will carry the day, as you suggest. But a lot of us "Superfans" won't be in a hurry to forgive & forget. If they come back, of course I'll watch, but with a newly detached, gimlet eye.

Perhaps my attitude is perverse, but if they blow up the season, I the league & its owners go away. The Bruins won it all in 2011, and I can die in peace. Life will go on without the NHL.

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12-10-2012, 06:32 PM
  #605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
So he's suggesting Burkle showed up unprepared and uninformed? It'd be interesting, as it's not a position you usually find billionaires in when it comes to something that so affects their finances.
Unless what they are there to negotiate doesn't really effect their finances much or they aren't really concerned with negotiating to begin with. If they are just there to help pass along a prearranged "offer" and storm out when it isn't accepted entirely, they wouldn't need much preparation or information about the course of negotiations at all.

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12-10-2012, 07:13 PM
  #607
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Still can't believe how stupid the players are...
You can't??? Ya recall the last lockout??

Their bodies of work are unprecedented

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Old
12-10-2012, 07:16 PM
  #608
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So you're suggesting they spent the day and a half in that hotel doing what? playing hopscotch?
In a touch of irony, I'll wager NHL13

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12-10-2012, 07:22 PM
  #609
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Originally Posted by RussellmaniaKW View Post
they should meet at the pond where Bobby Orr used to play hockey as a kid to remind everyone involved what the game is all about.
Too bad that pond was probably plowed to make way for a Condo complex or mini-mall.

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12-10-2012, 07:23 PM
  #610
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It getting like no one really cares anymore.

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12-10-2012, 07:28 PM
  #611
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Originally Posted by BrainOfJ View Post
So you're suggesting they spent the day and a half in that hotel doing what? playing hopscotch?
That would have been more productive.

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12-10-2012, 07:29 PM
  #612
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Originally Posted by bruinmann77 View Post
It getting like no one really cares anymore.
"QFT," with thanks to the HF fellow traveler who introduced me to the acronym.

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12-10-2012, 07:42 PM
  #613
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"just drop it"

Superfans, Unite!

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/

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12-10-2012, 09:41 PM
  #615
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the nhl13 fell through when they couldn't agree who was going get to be the home team twice in the best of three mini series they were going to play.

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12-10-2012, 09:42 PM
  #616
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the nhl13 fell through when they couldn't agree who was going get to be the home team twice in the best of three mini series they were going to play.
I heard they also couldn't agree on period lengths.

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12-10-2012, 09:49 PM
  #617
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Roman Hamrlik just told me on http://nextsportstar.com that he would support the NHLPA taking a vote on the owners last offer.

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12-10-2012, 10:35 PM
  #618
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Josh Rimer ‏@JoshRimerHockey
Roman Hamrlik just told me on http://nextsportstar.com that he would support the NHLPA taking a vote on the owners last offer.
Gotta admire Hammer standing firm even with his own teammate (Brouwer) threatening that he wont support or protect him on ice

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12-11-2012, 03:36 AM
  #619
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Gotta admire Hammer standing firm even with his own teammate (Brouwer) threatening that he wont support or protect him on ice
Brouwer sounds like a *****

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12-11-2012, 05:33 AM
  #620
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Gotta admire Hammer standing firm even with his own teammate (Brouwer) threatening that he wont support or protect him on ice
Hammer longest consecutive tenured NHLer?

I know Jagr is all that is left from NHL 93 but he sort of doesn't count with his break.


Roman Hamerlik has logged a ton of minutes in the NHL and picked up NHL paychecks for decades. When guys like him and Recchi just want everyone to shut up and play hockey it carries a lot more wieght than some of these babies.

Particularly since the Prusts and Brouwers of the world are the most replacable players there are. They aren't Chara's with unique game changing skillsets or Malkins who sell tickets.

Anyone in business who is an entrepreneur always takes sales that are 10-20% below your targeted profit margin no matter who you are or what you do. Its just bad business to turn down money, turn a positive number and keep things moving.

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12-11-2012, 05:37 AM
  #621
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Been saying since day 1.

The NHLPA is a joke.

Players are a joke.

Owners are the ones that make this league great. The put out the money. They should have the league run the way they want. And if Crosby, Malkin (et al.) doesn't like it they can go to the KHL full time

I would rather watch people who enjoy playing the game. The Whitfield's, the BTibb18's, and even a Jeff Lazaro if he decided to come back for a year

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12-11-2012, 05:47 AM
  #622
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Originally Posted by zylos45 View Post
Been saying since day 1.

The NHLPA is a joke.

Players are a joke.

Owners are the ones that make this league great. The put out the money. They should have the league run the way they want. And if Crosby, Malkin (et al.) doesn't like it they can go to the KHL full time

I would rather watch people who enjoy playing the game. The Whitfield's, the BTibb18's, and even a Jeff Lazaro if he decided to come back for a year
Agree with you.

I think the owners are dumb because right now 10+ of the biggest US hockey markets are doing better than ever and overall are more sucessful than their NBA counterparts despite hoops being more popular in this country (NYR, Philly, Detroit, Boston, Chicago, LAK, SJ, Washington, Buffalo) AND they just screwed NBC and got a better TV deal than they deserved AND the NHL in canada is untouchable and in its own planet in terms of popularity. So they shouldn't be risking that over details.

But you're right these players are greedy swine. Now this has gone so far I want someone to pay for what they have done to me. I am screwed financially I break my back to pay for my tickets they sucked money I didn't have out of me this summer and still have it it could have gone to more important things. I'd LOVE to see some of these babies never set foot on NHL ice it would warm my heart truly to know they won't ever make that kind of money again. And I will clap guys who have been away from the game a few years and get another crack at it.

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Old
12-11-2012, 06:08 AM
  #623
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I am quickly losing interest in hockey this time around. Last time, I was vested in finding hockey to watch and had my money piled up to go back to the barn once the lockout was over. This time around I really don't feel too affected. Shame on both parties for letting formerly loyal fans get to the point that they don't care.

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12-11-2012, 06:42 AM
  #624
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Originally Posted by zylos45 View Post
Been saying since day 1.

The NHLPA is a joke.

Players are a joke.

Owners are the ones that make this league great. The put out the money. They should have the league run the way they want. And if Crosby, Malkin (et al.) doesn't like it they can go to the KHL full time

I would rather watch people who enjoy playing the game. The Whitfield's, the BTibb18's, and even a Jeff Lazaro if he decided to come back for a year
Easy to see that kind of game for cheap right now in the AHL.

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Old
12-11-2012, 06:58 AM
  #625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zylos45 View Post
Been saying since day 1.

The NHLPA is a joke.

Players are a joke.

Owners are the ones that make this league great. The put out the money. They should have the league run the way they want. And if Crosby, Malkin (et al.) doesn't like it they can go to the KHL full time

I would rather watch people who enjoy playing the game. The Whitfield's, the BTibb18's, and even a Jeff Lazaro if he decided to come back for a year
So why do you watch? I'm sorry, but this league was doing so well because fans pay to see the great talent this league has to offer.

This league has always been run half assed, it's been going on for decades.

Maybe you can attend the board of govenors meetings and see the greatness that is

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