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2012 CBA/Lockout talk, It's not looking good VI

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Old
12-07-2012, 08:23 AM
  #151
Spooner st
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Originally Posted by Caballo Blanco View Post
You think Jacobs considers all of this a mess when some are still going to pay 150 bucks for tickets and 10 bucks for a beer after a cancelled season and a diminished payroll? He's laughing on his way to the bank.
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Originally Posted by Caballo Blanco View Post
Hockey is also the only major sport where players have to share rooms with teammates on the road.

Dude you cant compare hockey to the 3 major pro sports, you just cant.

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12-07-2012, 08:28 AM
  #152
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Hockey is also the only major sport where players have to share rooms with teammates on the road.
These guys have it rough

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12-07-2012, 08:32 AM
  #153
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Gut feeling says a CBA deal is very close. This mess yesterday was a public show and the last step before apologies, smiles and makeup-sex.


Public make-up sex?

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12-07-2012, 08:32 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Caballo Blanco View Post
Hockey is also the only major sport where players have to share rooms with teammates on the road.
THE HORROR!!!!!

These guys make more money than most of us will ever see in our lives and it's insulting to have them say things like they are being treated like "cattle" when unemployment in this country is so high and the average worker is just trying to live paycheck to paycheck. You're right though, they have to share hotel rooms, the owners are greedy ********.

I was pretty neutral in this whole thing until this week but the players have turned me with their clown show. It's pretty clear they don't want to play, they want to win. When the Pens co-owner who has literally won awards from unions calls them out that says something.

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12-07-2012, 08:34 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Spooner st View Post
Dude you cant compare hockey to the 3 major pro sports, you just cant.
The pro-owner crowd does it when it comes to 50-50 splits and all that stuff. Its been used on both sides. I do agree.. It shouldn't be brought up in my of these arguments. It just turns into whos more "right" or "wrong".

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12-07-2012, 08:34 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
Ron Burkle, Co-Owner, Pittsburgh Penguins

"The idea to put players and owners together in the same room was a refreshing idea. Commissioner Bettman should be thanked for proposing it and the Fehrs should be thanked for agreeing to it.

The players came with a strong desire to get back to playing hockey. They were professional and did a good job of expressing their concerns and listening to ours. We wanted to move quickly and decisively. We have all spent too much time without any real progress at the expense of our fans, our sponsors and the communities we serve. It was time to make bold moves and get a deal. Many people think we got over our skis and they are probably right, but we wanted to do everything we could to get back to hockey now. We didn't hold back.

We made substantial movement on our end quickly, but unfortunately that was not met with the same level of movement from the other side. The players asked us to be patient and keep working with them. |t's not what they do and they wanted us to know they were committed.

We understood and appreciate their situation. We came back with an aggressive commitment to pensions which we felt was well received. We needed a response on key items that were important to us, but we were optimistic that we were down to very few issues. I believe a deal was within reach.

We were therefore surprised when the Fehrs made a unilateral and "non-negotiable" decision - which is their right, to end the player/owner process that has moved us farther in two days than we have moved at any time in the past months.

I want to thank the players involved for their hard work as we tried to reach a deal.

I hope that going backwards does not prevent a deal."
Holy shiat. I'm going to have to read the last thread to see how this happened but it sounds like Fehr really ****ed things up last night

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12-07-2012, 08:35 AM
  #157
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Public make-up sex?

Yup.. lol

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12-07-2012, 08:37 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
That hasn't been proven conclusively.

That's just my take, doesn't make it right, but I never saw the starting point as a 57/43 split in the players favor. That number is dictated by the demands of the business, there is no entitlement to it on the players part. Say the last CBA was a 10 year agreement, would you want to use the fiscal landscape from a decade ago as a place to begin bargaining? I can't think of many companies that would.

I was a little more angry at the whole situation last night after watching Fehr spout an endless stream of ridiculousness honestly. Now I guess I'm just more resigned then anything. At this point, I wouldn't blame the owners one bit for saying "Make Whole is off the table, there won't be hockey until there is a true 50/50 split, contract limits will be 5 years, and the CBA will extend out for 10 years. Feel free to negotiate amongst yourselves but until you come back to the table understanding those 4 very basic premises as fact you won't be playing hockey. Have fun in Russia." The very real situation for the players here is that the owners don't have to give them anything, they can try their hand in the courtroom but chances aren't very likely any of them would want to live like the rest of us for the 2 or so years it would take to get anti trust lawsuits through the system. Without the NHL owners are still filthy rich. Without the NHL the players are packing up and selling their wares over seas to leagues with far far far more realistic salaries and owners who will make NHL owners look like Mary Poppins. The owners have just as much right to make money at the NHL as the players do, you take that right away from the owners and you don't have an NHL. It would be different if the owners were being unreasonable imo, if two other leagues just hadn't settled for a 50/50 revenue split themselves, two leagues that bring in far more revenue then the NHL.

Regardless, the players already offered the same 50/50 split if they got 393 million when the owners were offering just 200 million. The owners split the difference and conceded to 300 million so long as they got the 10 year CBA length and 5 year contract limit. That should have been the end of it right there. Give a little, take a little. But Fehr and Co. now won't agree to CBA length because they don't want players of the future to miss out on their chance to go through one of these "bargaining sessions"? That one statement made by Fehr during his presser pretty much sums it all up for me. Fehr doesn't care that 10 years would be a plus for everyone, that the stability would likely generate more revenue for the NHL in terms of fan and sponsor support and actually mean more money for the players he represents. It's about winning all the little battles so they can eventually say they managed to win the war.

We are now at the point where the players and Fehr have managed to turn even the moderate owners off.
Couldn't agree more with you Kaoz. As you said the NHL has the upper hand, are the owners losing money? Absolutely, but in other ventures they'll make their money, they'll be ok. Players on the other hand, like you said above, won't have nearly that luxury. Like it or not, it's a fact and life isn't fair, the players have to react to that.

The moderate and fair owners in the room pretty much put their foot down saying nows the time to concede in one area and make the offer. The NHL came down to the middle and were willing to concede in the money aspects, as long as the players were willing to concede in a few areas as well. It's give and take, simple business and bargaining.

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12-07-2012, 08:39 AM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
Ron Burkle, Co-Owner, Pittsburgh Penguins

"The idea to put players and owners together in the same room was a refreshing idea. Commissioner Bettman should be thanked for proposing it and the Fehrs should be thanked for agreeing to it.

The players came with a strong desire to get back to playing hockey. They were professional and did a good job of expressing their concerns and listening to ours. We wanted to move quickly and decisively. We have all spent too much time without any real progress at the expense of our fans, our sponsors and the communities we serve. It was time to make bold moves and get a deal. Many people think we got over our skis and they are probably right, but we wanted to do everything we could to get back to hockey now. We didn't hold back.

We made substantial movement on our end quickly, but unfortunately that was not met with the same level of movement from the other side. The players asked us to be patient and keep working with them. |t's not what they do and they wanted us to know they were committed.

We understood and appreciate their situation. We came back with an aggressive commitment to pensions which we felt was well received. We needed a response on key items that were important to us, but we were optimistic that we were down to very few issues. I believe a deal was within reach.

We were therefore surprised when the Fehrs made a unilateral and "non-negotiable" decision - which is their right, to end the player/owner process that has moved us farther in two days than we have moved at any time in the past months.

I want to thank the players involved for their hard work as we tried to reach a deal.

I hope that going backwards does not prevent a deal."
I have to laugh

Of course a lot of this is probably posturing on the NHL owners' part, but it's pretty sad that the players are running the show and Fehr is getting them nowhere.

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Old
12-07-2012, 08:39 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Caballo Blanco View Post
Hockey is also the only major sport where players have to share rooms with teammates on the road.
And quite frankly, many of them like that. That's how these friendships are being created, the road trips, sharing rooms. All you have to do is watch one of the 24/7 series to see that. B's players talk about it all the time.

Sure there will be outliers and babies that want their own room, but i guarantee the majoriy of the players don't care.

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12-07-2012, 08:42 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Bruins Stooge View Post
Couldn't agree more with you Kaoz. As you said the NHL has the upper hand, are the owners losing money? Absolutely, but in other ventures they'll make their money, they'll be ok. Players on the other hand, like you said above, won't have nearly that luxury. Like it or not, it's a fact and life isn't fair, the players have to react to that.

The moderate and fair owners in the room pretty much put their foot down saying nows the time to concede in one area and make the offer. The NHL came down to the middle and were willing to concede in the money aspects, as long as the players were willing to concede in a few areas as well. It's give and take, simple business and bargaining.
the bold is the key to who has the power here. Which owner makes his money from the NHL team he owns? most of them are lucky to break even with their team. The owners might be losing a little money but they have other incomes. The players only get money from playing. A few might have endorsement deals but for the most part it is their one and only source of income.

in the waiting game it is the owners who have the advantage.

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12-07-2012, 08:43 AM
  #162
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The guys on Sportsnet and TSN mentioned that what happened last night was all posturing and the sides still remain close. I'm hoping that's the case.

BTW why was Kelly ousted as the head of the PA?

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12-07-2012, 08:45 AM
  #163
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The guys on Sportsnet and TSN mentioned that what happened last night was all posturing and the sides still remain close. I'm hoping that's the case.

BTW why was Kelly ousted as the head of the PA?
It's exactly what's happening

The players will eventually make it happen

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Old
12-07-2012, 08:46 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Caballo Blanco View Post
Hockey is also the only major sport where players have to share rooms with teammates on the road.
OMG! I didn't know that! The poor guys...they get all my sympathy now!

I'm teasing you, and hopefully you simply forgot one of these but seriously, what's next? They'll have to carry their own bags through airports?

Cue the old "You can't compare professional athletes with average people" argument, but thousands if not millions of people would kill to be able to share ANY room with ANYBODY, let alone the luxurious hotels NHL players stay in.

Oh, and they don't pay for those rooms either. The rooms are paid for in addition to their salaries.

And they get more meal money per day than I spend on food in a week on top of their salaries!

The lowest paid NHL player earned more last year than I've earned in 35 years of working.

The average player earned more last year than many of us will earn in our entire lives.

And people talk about the players getting screwed because they gave up 7% of revenues?

Spare me.

I keep hearing how they got screwed with the last CBA, yet the average salary has doubled since then.

I haven't had a raise in pay since before the last lockout, but my health insurance has gone up substantially, the value of my home has dwindled, the price of food and fuel has nearly doubled, etc., etc.

And I'm ecstatic to even have a job, because my brother and at least 3 of my close friends have been out of work for quite sometime.

Yeah, the owners are really screwing the players....

Good, cuz they can all go screw!

End of my

Happy Friday everybody!!

P.S. Caballo Blanco, the players should listen to the guy in your avatar.

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12-07-2012, 08:48 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Paddington View Post
The guys on Sportsnet and TSN mentioned that what happened last night was all posturing and the sides still remain close. I'm hoping that's the case.

BTW why was Kelly ousted as the head of the PA?
Captain Planet!

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12-07-2012, 08:50 AM
  #166
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Spot on Roll

It's laughable

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12-07-2012, 08:50 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Roll 4 Lines View Post
OMG! I didn't know that! The poor guys...they get all my sympathy now!

I'm teasing you, and hopefully you simply forgot one of these but seriously, what's next? They'll have to carry their own bags through airports?

Cue the old "You can't compare professional athletes with average people" argument, but thousands if not millions of people would kill to be able to share ANY room with ANYBODY, let alone the luxurious hotels NHL players stay in.

Oh, and they don't pay for those rooms either. The rooms are paid for in addition to their salaries.

And they get more meal money per day than I spend on food in a week on top of their salaries!

The lowest paid NHL player earned more last year than I've earned in 35 years of working.

The average player earned more last year than many of us will earn in our entire lives.

And people talk about the players getting screwed because they gave up 7% of revenues?

Spare me.

I keep hearing how they got screwed with the last CBA, yet the average salary has doubled since then.

I haven't had a raise in pay since before the last lockout, but my health insurance has gone up substantially, the value of my home has dwindled, the price of food and fuel has nearly doubled, etc., etc.

And I'm ecstatic to even have a job, because my brother and at least 3 of my close friends have been out of work for quite sometime.

Yeah, the owners are really screwing the players....

Good, cuz they can all go screw!

End of my

Happy Friday everybody!!

P.S. Caballo Blanco, the players should listen to the guy in your avatar.
Funny how the players were so ******** with that deal but would have played under those same rules this year and as many following as they could get.

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12-07-2012, 08:51 AM
  #168
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Captain Planet!
I prefer raving socialist... but at least your name is more positive... man.. my feelings on the players have dwindled.. i'm starting to go towards your side (the dark side ).. Where can i find my new jacobs avatar?

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12-07-2012, 08:52 AM
  #169
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I prefer raving socialist... but at least your name is more positive... man.. my feelings on the players have dwindled.. i'm starting to go towards your side (the dark side ).. Where can i find my new jacobs avatar?
I have grown to like the name "the finger" myself. I will always remember that moment and smile.

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12-07-2012, 08:52 AM
  #170
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Harvey Dent "The night is darkest just before dawn."

prediction: phone call mid day Saturday between deal makers; meeting in secured place that even Steve Burton doesn't know about Sunday and agreed upon. Leaks Sunday night around 6 and players vote and done by Monday or Tuesday.

They CAN NOT get a better deal after next week becasue the revenue streams will be lessened if this gets tanked.

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12-07-2012, 08:54 AM
  #171
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I prefer raving socialist... but at least your name is more positive... man.. my feelings on the players have dwindled.. i'm starting to go towards your side (the dark side ).. Where can i find my new jacobs avatar?
Muahahah love this!

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12-07-2012, 08:55 AM
  #172
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I prefer raving socialist... but at least your name is more positive... man.. my feelings on the players have dwindled.. i'm starting to go towards your side (the dark side ).. Where can i find my new jacobs avatar?
You dont just decide to come to our side... you have to acquire the knowledge first.

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12-07-2012, 08:55 AM
  #173
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Funny how the players were so ******** with that deal but would have played under those same rules this year and as many following as they could get.
Good point by the Wham Man!

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12-07-2012, 08:58 AM
  #174
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I prefer raving socialist... but at least your name is more positive... man.. my feelings on the players have dwindled.. i'm starting to go towards your side (the dark side ).. Where can i find my new jacobs avatar?
Welcome.

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12-07-2012, 08:59 AM
  #175
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The cynic in me wonders about the puppet show of having the "moderate" owners come in and get all flustered and voice their frustration with the process/Fehr. Another way to drive the wedge between players and union leadership. Now it is not just the bogeymen Bettman and Jacobs railing against Fehr. The good guy owners have had it too. Let us not overlook the dramatic flourish on exhibit here - though I don't doubt that DF's strategy the past 24 hours did break down some meaningful progress. If the players are ever going to revolt against Fehr that time is probably now. He has been pushed into the corner fairly effectively as the villain this week and the players either will or will not bite on the bait. I still say they stick with him but we shall see.

Neither side has the deal they will sign off on yet and there's a lot of public teeth gnashing while they wait for that to materialize; a lot of posturing and maneuvering and pressure increasing is going on at this juncture. It's tedious at best to watch. But it will end someday, in 3 days or 9 months, this we know. This will end someday.

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