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The Luongo Thread - "Make it stop, make it stop!"

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Old
12-13-2012, 10:57 AM
  #276
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
So, it's your beleaf that Burke should aquire Luongo no matter what it costs? Luckily, Burke will draw a line. Yes, he has a need....but the cost MUST work. If he doesn't aquire him and it comes out that the cost was low...then i agree with you. BUT, if Gillis sticks to his price, fans nor media are going to call for his head for not pulling the trigger.


Not "no matter what it costs", but as long as he's able to protect the majority of his roster and Reilly, he should be open to anything else IMO.


Of course you're right, we will only know for sure once Luongo is dealt. But if at that time it is learned that the price was reasonable, or a comparable to something TO could have easily offered, his head should be on the chopping block. Exorbitant price no. Fair to cheap price, yes.



Basically, get out of you own way Burke and allow Luongo to carry your team to the playoffs.

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Old
12-13-2012, 05:10 PM
  #277
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After more days or discussion/arguments/banter, how are you guys feeling about these two trades for value?

To the Vancouver Canucks
Joffery Lupul [with contract extension]
1st Round Pick in 2014
Joe Colbourne
Matthew Lombardi

*Toronto trades Lupul if he does
not want to sign with Toronto but would agree
on a contract in Vancouver. If the the lockout
goes all year, drop Lombardi.


To the Toronto Maple Leafs
Roberto Luongo
1st Round Pick in 2014

or

To the Vancouver Canucks
Nikoali Kulemin
1st Round Pick in 2014
Carter Ashton/Stuart Percy

To the Toronto Maple Leafs
Roberto Luongo

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Old
12-13-2012, 05:16 PM
  #278
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Neither is ideal, but I'd have to take deal #1.

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Old
12-13-2012, 05:30 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
Neither is ideal, but I'd have to take deal #1.
You'd 'have to' as in if you had to pick one of those two?

Or you'd 'have to' as in considering the circumstances you would take #1?

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Old
12-13-2012, 05:39 PM
  #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
You'd 'have to' as in if you had to pick one of those two?

Or you'd 'have to' as in considering the circumstances you would take #1?
If those were Toronto's two last trades, considering Lupul is signed. I'd do deal #1 no question. So both.

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Old
12-13-2012, 05:41 PM
  #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
After more days or discussion/arguments/banter, how are you guys feeling about these two trades for value?

To the Vancouver Canucks
Joffery Lupul [with contract extension]
1st Round Pick in 2014
Joe Colbourne
Matthew Lombardi

*Toronto trades Lupul if he does
not want to sign with Toronto but would agree
on a contract in Vancouver. If the the lockout
goes all year, drop Lombardi.


To the Toronto Maple Leafs
Roberto Luongo
1st Round Pick in 2014

or

To the Vancouver Canucks
Nikoali Kulemin
1st Round Pick in 2014
Carter Ashton/Stuart Percy

To the Toronto Maple Leafs
Roberto Luongo
I don't even consider the 2nd deal one bit. Kulemin is a tweener (which we have plenty of already), 1st round pick isn't this year, and a decent prospect.

The 1st deal is much more intriguing, but Colborne screams bust to me.
Switch him to Kadri, or replace Lombardi and Colborne with Bozak and Frattin/Finn/Percy.

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Old
12-13-2012, 05:58 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
I don't even consider the 2nd deal one bit. Kulemin is a tweener (which we have plenty of already), 1st round pick isn't this year, and a decent prospect.

The 1st deal is much more intriguing, but Colborne screams bust to me.
Switch him to Kadri, or replace Lombardi and Colborne with Bozak and Frattin/Finn/Percy.
Hey thanks... yeah I'm just trying to gauge where the interest is currently at so we can see how it all turns out.

From what you're suggesting it sounds like...
- 1st
- Top six forward [25G/35A guy w/ pot. for maybe a little more.]
- Former First Round Pick [Kadri, MPS, Conolly, Kassin, Hodgson, etc.]
- Plus a project.

To me that's simply too much. That's considering everything that's been discussed: age, contract, team conditions, etc.

Plus I think it blows other offers out of the water from other teams.

Guess we'll see.

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Old
12-13-2012, 06:00 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
If those were Toronto's two last trades, considering Lupul is signed. I'd do deal #1 no question. So both.
Okay got ya.

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Old
12-13-2012, 06:04 PM
  #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
After more days or discussion/arguments/banter, how are you guys feeling about these two trades for value?

To the Vancouver Canucks
Joffery Lupul [with contract extension]
1st Round Pick in 2014
Joe Colbourne
Matthew Lombardi

*Toronto trades Lupul if he does
not want to sign with Toronto but would agree
on a contract in Vancouver. If the the lockout
goes all year, drop Lombardi.


To the Toronto Maple Leafs
Roberto Luongo
1st Round Pick in 2014

or

To the Vancouver Canucks
Nikoali Kulemin
1st Round Pick in 2014
Carter Ashton/Stuart Percy

To the Toronto Maple Leafs
Roberto Luongo
I won't comment on value...but i've got to ask, why would Lupul not want to resign here? He gets to play 1st line minutes with Kessel and seems to love the spotlight.

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Old
12-13-2012, 06:12 PM
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I won't comment on value...but i've got to ask, why would Lupul not want to resign here? He gets to play 1st line minutes with Kessel and seems to love the spotlight.
No reason. I firmly believe he will resign in TO. I'm just trying to be creative and please some people here.

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Old
12-13-2012, 06:13 PM
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
Hey thanks... yeah I'm just trying to gauge where the interest is currently at so we can see how it all turns out.

From what you're suggesting it sounds like...
- 1st
- Top six forward [25G/35A guy w/ pot. for maybe a little more.]
- Former First Round Pick [Kadri, MPS, Conolly, Kassin, Hodgson, etc.]
- Plus a project.

To me that's simply too much. That's considering everything that's been discussed: age, contract, team conditions, etc.

Plus I think it blows other offers out of the water from other teams.

Guess we'll see.
First off, it's not just a 1st round pick (which is in 2014 btw, not nearly as valuable as a 1st this year). In your offer, the Canucks include their 2014 1st. The Leafs could very well be a playoff team in 2014, so moving up a few spots isn't worth as much as you're making it out to be.
I'd be fine with what I offered, but removing the 1sts and the Leafs include their 2013 2nd round pick.

Second, I said Kadri because you also included Lombardi. I think Jordan Schroeder would be a better 3rd line center than him, and Schroeder doesn't have a $3.5 mil cap hit. We also already have someone with a big cap hit on our 4th line, we don't need a 2nd player like that.

A top 6 winger, a 2nd round pick, a 3rd line center, and a good prospect for an all-star goalie with a good cap hit for the foreseeable future isn't as outrageous as some Leafs fans think it is.
(this is if you replace Kadri + Lombardi with Bozak + Frattin/Finn/Percy)

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Old
12-13-2012, 06:31 PM
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
After more days or discussion/arguments/banter, how are you guys feeling about these two trades for value?

To the Vancouver Canucks
Joffery Lupul [with contract extension]
1st Round Pick in 2014
Joe Colbourne
Matthew Lombardi

*Toronto trades Lupul if he does
not want to sign with Toronto but would agree
on a contract in Vancouver. If the the lockout
goes all year, drop Lombardi.


To the Toronto Maple Leafs
Roberto Luongo
1st Round Pick in 2014

or

To the Vancouver Canucks
Nikoali Kulemin
1st Round Pick in 2014
Carter Ashton/Stuart Percy

To the Toronto Maple Leafs
Roberto Luongo
First one I like, second one not so much. Getting Toronto's first, which, playoffs or not, I expect to be lower, is a nice touch, but Luongo for Lupul, Colborne and salary in Lombardi is closer to the value I want then previous offers, the swap of picks is alright too. I'd honestly rather add something other then the first, a roster player perhaps, but if that was the trade, I'd be fine with it as is.

Edit: I just noticed it was for 2014. In that case, since we're expecting improvements in Toronto, downgrade our pick or drop in entirely, that's about the only ways I'll still be ok with the return I think.

Second one I really don't care for. Ashton and Percy don't thrill me, at all. Kulemin is expected to be the bulk of the value, and I just don't feel he is that valuable to the Canucks. Wings are pretty well set with Daniel-Booth-Higgins and Burrows-Raymond-Hansen, not counting Kassian or the possibility of Jensen, and I just don't see Kulemin being a big enough improvement on what we have available already. It's not his value that's the problem, its the value of a marginal possible increase on what we don't have to surrender assets for.

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Old
12-13-2012, 06:32 PM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
After more days or discussion/arguments/banter, how are you guys feeling about these two trades for value?

To the Vancouver Canucks
Joffery Lupul [with contract extension]
1st Round Pick in 2014
Joe Colbourne
Matthew Lombardi

*Toronto trades Lupul if he does
not want to sign with Toronto but would agree
on a contract in Vancouver. If the the lockout
goes all year, drop Lombardi.


To the Toronto Maple Leafs
Roberto Luongo
1st Round Pick in 2014

or

To the Vancouver Canucks
Nikoali Kulemin
1st Round Pick in 2014
Carter Ashton/Stuart Percy

To the Toronto Maple Leafs
Roberto Luongo
Both trades are terrible. Wouldn't consider either of them.

Second one I don't even consider.

First one, drop Lombardi, make the Leafs 1st round pick a 2013 1st round pick, and drop the 1st rounder going back from Vancouver because that's just absurd. Not a Colborne fan either, make that someone useful like Matt Finn or even Tyler Biggs.

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:32 PM
  #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
First off...
Yeah sorry, I for got the exchange of the 1sts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
First one I like...
Okay so between you two: [for Lu alone]
- 1st Rounder, Top 6 Forward [Lupul] & a B-Prospect
- Top 6 Forward [Lupul], High Upside Prospect [Kadri], Bottom Six Center, & 2nd Rounder.

I still think that's high, just because of the specific players and the draft pick being Toronto's and say not Chicago's or Sj's. Thanks for the input. We'll see.

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:55 PM
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
Yeah sorry, I for got the exchange of the 1sts.



Okay so between you two: [for Lu alone]
- 1st Rounder, Top 6 Forward [Lupul] & a B-Prospect
- Top 6 Forward [Lupul], High Upside Prospect [Kadri], Bottom Six Center, & 2nd Rounder.

I still think that's high, just because of the specific players and the draft pick being Toronto's and say not Chicago's or Sj's. Thanks for the input. We'll see.
I'm still waiting for your response to me asking who you think are top 5 goalies in the league. I recall your absurd analysis of Luongo's stats based on their year to year rank as the reason why he's not a top 5 goalie. Then, when confronted with stats of other goalies like Lundqvist and how he hasn't had stats in the top 5 at a more consistent rate than Luongo either, you just sorta disappeared. Discuss.

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Old
12-13-2012, 10:53 PM
  #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
After more days or discussion/arguments/banter, how are you guys feeling about these two trades for value?

To the Vancouver Canucks
Joffery Lupul [with contract extension]
1st Round Pick in 2014
Joe Colbourne
Matthew Lombardi

*Toronto trades Lupul if he does
not want to sign with Toronto but would agree
on a contract in Vancouver. If the the lockout
goes all year, drop Lombardi.


To the Toronto Maple Leafs
Roberto Luongo
1st Round Pick in 2014
While I doubt such prearrangements would be made, as they are not common in the NHL. We'll assume for argument sake, but I would say no. Vancouver is not in the position to trade our first unless a marquee talent is coming back, which Lupul is not. Furthermore, we are accepting far too much salary in this proposal. I'd say simplify it: Luongo for Lupul and a small plus.

If you want to add salary than I'll toss you

Lupul
Connolly

for

Luongo
Raymond

Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
To the Vancouver Canucks
Nikoali Kulemin
1st Round Pick in 2014
Carter Ashton/Stuart Percy

To the Toronto Maple Leafs
Roberto Luongo
Swap in Kadri as the prospect and I'd be more interested; I'd do it if that pick were 2013.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:01 PM
  #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post

Okay so between you two: [for Lu alone]
- 1st Rounder, Top 6 Forward [Lupul] & a B-Prospect
- Top 6 Forward [Lupul], High Upside Prospect [Kadri], Bottom Six Center, & 2nd Rounder.

I still think that's high, just because of the specific players and the draft pick being Toronto's and say not Chicago's or Sj's. Thanks for the input. We'll see.
If it makes you feel any better, I'd probably throw in Raymond for cap and roster number purposes.

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12-13-2012, 11:04 PM
  #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
After more days or discussion/arguments/banter, how are you guys feeling about these two trades for value?

To the Vancouver Canucks
Joffery Lupul [with contract extension]
1st Round Pick in 2014
Joe Colbourne
Matthew Lombardi

*Toronto trades Lupul if he does
not want to sign with Toronto but would agree
on a contract in Vancouver. If the the lockout
goes all year, drop Lombardi.


To the Toronto Maple Leafs
Roberto Luongo
1st Round Pick in 2014

or

To the Vancouver Canucks
Nikoali Kulemin
1st Round Pick in 2014
Carter Ashton/Stuart Percy

To the Toronto Maple Leafs
Roberto Luongo
Ya... You can keep those.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:09 PM
  #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
If it makes you feel any better, I'd probably throw in Raymond for cap and roster number purposes.
Which is funny because people treat Kulemin like he has value, yet some of our fans would just dump Raymond? Makes no sense. Raymond is equal to Kulemin in terms of production.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:23 PM
  #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Which is funny because people treat Kulemin like he has value, yet some of our fans would just dump Raymond? Makes no sense. Raymond is equal to Kulemin in terms of production.
I'm not just dumping him.
If adding him would get a deal done, I'd do it, since there would be zero room for him on the top 9.

But yeah, I think they have similar value, although the edge goes to Kulemin. He isn't an upcoming UFA, and he's more physical (but slower) which is something you would want for someone playing in the bottom 6.

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Old
12-14-2012, 12:04 AM
  #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Which is funny because people treat Kulemin like he has value, yet some of our fans would just dump Raymond? Makes no sense. Raymond is equal to Kulemin in terms of production.
Raymond is also equal to Jannik Hansen in terms of production. Are Hansen and Raymond equals as well?

Kulemin is a much much better fit on this team than Raymond. I don't even want to think about the makeup of our 3rd line with Schroeder and Raymond on it. Tiny and easy to play against.

MPS' upside is Nik Kulemin. How could you want MPS but not Kulemin? Makes no sense.

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12-14-2012, 03:41 AM
  #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
After more days or discussion/arguments/banter, how are you guys feeling about these two trades for value?

To the Vancouver Canucks
Joffery Lupul [with contract extension]
1st Round Pick in 2014
Joe Colbourne
Matthew Lombardi

*Toronto trades Lupul if he does
not want to sign with Toronto but would agree
on a contract in Vancouver. If the the lockout
goes all year, drop Lombardi.


To the Toronto Maple Leafs
Roberto Luongo
1st Round Pick in 2014

or

To the Vancouver Canucks
Nikoali Kulemin
1st Round Pick in 2014
Carter Ashton/Stuart Percy

To the Toronto Maple Leafs
Roberto Luongo
Is that a joke? no to both proposal.

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Old
12-14-2012, 06:12 AM
  #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I'm still waiting for your response to me asking who you think are top 5 goalies in the league. I recall your absurd analysis of Luongo's stats based on their year to year rank as the reason why he's not a top 5 goalie. Then, when confronted with stats of other goalies like Lundqvist and how he hasn't had stats in the top 5 at a more consistent rate than Luongo either, you just sorta disappeared. Discuss.


He won't answer you. Not with any logical argument anyways. I don't think he understands that Canucks fans have picked apart Luongo stats for years now, and they've come to their conclusions as a result. For some one not as familiar with the minutia, it seems a daunting task to come up with a reasoned counter-argument looking at those same stats. It's akin to taking the same data and drawing the complete opposite conclusion just out of preference - it won't fly.


Frankly, marty111 avoiding to answer your query is perhaps the smartest thing he has done in this thread.

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12-14-2012, 07:51 AM
  #299
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I think next year we'll have a lot of prospects challenging for roster spots. Kassian, Jensen, Schroeder, Connauton, and Corrado all have a decent shot at making the team. That will give us a lot more cap flexibility if we let Raymond and Malhotra walk, and trade Ballard for picks.

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12-14-2012, 08:22 AM
  #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I think next year we'll have a lot of prospects challenging for roster spots. Kassian, Jensen, Schroeder, Connauton, and Corrado all have a decent shot at making the team. That will give us a lot more cap flexibility if we let Raymond and Malhotra walk, and trade Ballard for picks.


If the cap shrinks to 60m, Connauten, Schroeder, Lack and of course Kassian will be on the team. Possibly Kadri too . One more ELC Dman would have been great (damnit Shultz) as well.


Agree with Raymond, Malhotra walking (although I hope Raymond gets traded this year), and Ballard being moved for picks. Altogether, it should be enough to re-sign Edler, Higgins and Lapierre. With that, I still like this team's chances moving forward.

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