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The Luongo Thread - "Make it stop, make it stop!"

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Old
12-21-2012, 04:29 PM
  #426
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No point in holding on to Luongo until the trade deadline. Too much of a distraction that he doesn't deserve. I don't want to hear the excuses that 'our new players need a good training camp with the rest of the team to fit in'. Get some players back for him and let's go beast. The last thing we would need is for Luongo to outplay Schneider and then have another goalie controversy again.

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12-21-2012, 05:09 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
The mid-pack mentality is where TOR is right now. There's no changing it because Burke traded away prime picks to "accelerate" the process. The best course of action for a new GM is to gut that team and rebuild, but it isn't going to happen as long as Burke's at the helm. Nor should it. Ownership would not readily accept a complete course change at this late stage of the game (for Burke). Burke has to continue to act according to his "plan". If the plan is scrapped now after 4 years, then you have to question the guy making it... In for a penny, in for a pound.
I don't know, Burke didn't move any assets at the deadline to push for a playoff spot and wound up with a top 5 pick. If the Leafs get out to a poor start, maybe he holds on and looks for another top 10 pick.

It just doesn't make any sense for Burke to acquire Luongo before the season starts IMO. Luongo typically takes around 10 games to find his form and this season he'll be dealing with an extra 4 month layoff. No rush when the player you're looking to bring in doesn't excel early in the season.

I would be surprised if Luongo was a Leaf to start next season. Gillis' demands likely won't come down enough that early on and Burke shouldn't be in any hurry to get the deal closed.

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12-21-2012, 07:59 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
It just doesn't make any sense for Burke to acquire Luongo before the season starts IMO. Luongo typically takes around 10 games to find his form and this season he'll be dealing with an extra 4 month layoff. No rush when the player you're looking to bring in doesn't excel early in the season.
True but it's tough to gauge exactly how well he'll do given that I highly suspect the Leafs will play a far more disciplined (eg., defensive) style this upcoming season. They have a coach that preaches that (weakness at center I think forces them into that style of play to be effective).

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12-22-2012, 03:51 AM
  #429
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Not sure why people continue coming to these boards arguing about the desire of teams to acquire Luongo. Hello. We 'know' 6 teams were calling Gillis prior to any CBA finalization. That means, 6 teams were calling looking to acquire a $40+M contract on a 33 yr old goaltender_Before_ they knew what the landscape looked like. In a business world, which the NHL is, that's a very risky proposition. Yet, they still called. So clearly, 6 teams were highly interested.

What we don't know is 'who' all those teams were, 'if' they are all still interested after a new CBA, and 'what' other teams might join the race. So please, stop the insanity, he's not some asset that nobody never wanted. He's not going to get traded for scraps.

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12-22-2012, 09:53 AM
  #430
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Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
Not sure why people continue coming to these boards arguing about the desire of teams to acquire Luongo. Hello. We 'know' 6 teams were calling Gillis prior to any CBA finalization. That means, 6 teams were calling looking to acquire a $40+M contract on a 33 yr old goaltender_Before_ they knew what the landscape looked like. In a business world, which the NHL is, that's a very risky proposition. Yet, they still called. So clearly, 6 teams were highly interested.

What we don't know is 'who' all those teams were, 'if' they are all still interested after a new CBA, and 'what' other teams might join the race. So please, stop the insanity, he's not some asset that nobody never wanted. He's not going to get traded for scraps.
I'll agree with most of your post, but the bolded is presumptuous. Some of those teams where probably calling to see if they could get him cheap.

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12-22-2012, 02:26 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
I don't know, Burke didn't move any assets at the deadline to push for a playoff spot and wound up with a top 5 pick. If the Leafs get out to a poor start, maybe he holds on and looks for another top 10 pick.

It just doesn't make any sense for Burke to acquire Luongo before the season starts IMO. Luongo typically takes around 10 games to find his form and this season he'll be dealing with an extra 4 month layoff. No rush when the player you're looking to bring in doesn't excel early in the season.

I would be surprised if Luongo was a Leaf to start next season. Gillis' demands likely won't come down enough that early on and Burke shouldn't be in any hurry to get the deal closed.


What could Burke deal at the deadline? He wasn't going to deal a high pick, he was burned by that already. Roster pieces? Then he would have to ensure he wasn't taking away more than he was adding. So a trade, a significant one at least, was a very risky proposition for a team on the bubble.



It makes complete sense for Burke to acquire Luongo before the season starts. The table is set optimally, right now, for Burke. Head into the season, and other factors will change his position. Whether it's in Gillis's best interest is another story. His demands have to come down first, and I don't see that happening until Luongo plays a few games in a Canuck sweater, and he gets the lay of the land so to speak.




Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
Not sure why people continue coming to these boards arguing about the desire of teams to acquire Luongo. Hello. We 'know' 6 teams were calling Gillis prior to any CBA finalization. That means, 6 teams were calling looking to acquire a $40+M contract on a 33 yr old goaltender_Before_ they knew what the landscape looked like. In a business world, which the NHL is, that's a very risky proposition. Yet, they still called. So clearly, 6 teams were highly interested.

What we don't know is 'who' all those teams were, 'if' they are all still interested after a new CBA, and 'what' other teams might join the race. So please, stop the insanity, he's not some asset that nobody never wanted. He's not going to get traded for scraps.



The delay in the trade due to the CBA is affecting perception IMO. We are thinking like the season is still going on and Luongo has yet to move. Like there is difficulty in moving him. When really, GMs haven't been able to talk to each other about deals for a long time. So it's skewing the view on his value... something difficult to move must not have value etc...



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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I'll agree with most of your post, but the bolded is presumptuous. Some of those teams where probably calling to see if they could get him cheap.


...And some were increasing their offers based on others (EDM did it to TOR, which in turn did it back). So not presumptuous I don't think.

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12-22-2012, 02:48 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
What could Burke deal at the deadline? He wasn't going to deal a high pick, he was burned by that already. Roster pieces? Then he would have to ensure he wasn't taking away more than he was adding. So a trade, a significant one at least, was a very risky proposition for a team on the bubble.



It makes complete sense for Burke to acquire Luongo before the season starts. The table is set optimally, right now, for Burke. Head into the season, and other factors will change his position. Whether it's in Gillis's best interest is another story. His demands have to come down first, and I don't see that happening until Luongo plays a few games in a Canuck sweater, and he gets the lay of the land so to speak.









The delay in the trade due to the CBA is affecting perception IMO. We are thinking like the season is still going on and Luongo has yet to move. Like there is difficulty in moving him. When really, GMs haven't been able to talk to each other about deals for a long time. So it's skewing the view on his value... something difficult to move must not have value etc...







...And some were increasing their offers based on others (EDM did it to TOR, which in turn did it back). So not presumptuous I don't think.
The post i was responding to said 6 teams were "highly interesred", you have listed 2. And those 2 aren't interested enough to come close to Gillis' inflated pricetag.

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12-22-2012, 03:29 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
The post i was responding to said 6 teams were "highly interesred", you have listed 2. And those 2 aren't interested enough to come close to Gillis' inflated pricetag.


What did that post list as the criteria for being "highly interested". They looked at all the factors prior to _phoning_ Gillis to inquire about Luongo. This, SunshineRays equates to having high interest. 6 teams did call...



Your rebuttal proposes the content of those phone calls. How do you know what the content was? How do you know the level of interest? Who is being more presumptuous? The person recognizing there were calls made, or the person inferring the details of those calls without any inside knowledge?

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12-22-2012, 06:28 PM
  #434
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For those interested in FLA prospects San Antonio (farm team of FLA) is on SN right now.

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12-22-2012, 06:49 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
It makes complete sense for Burke to acquire Luongo before the season starts. The table is set optimally, right now, for Burke. Head into the season, and other factors will change his position. Whether it's in Gillis's best interest is another story. His demands have to come down first, and I don't see that happening until Luongo plays a few games in a Canuck sweater, and he gets the lay of the land so to speak.
Would you move Gardiner or your 1st for Luongo before the season starts? I know I wouldn't.

I just don't see a deal getting done here until Burke see's how his team performs, more importantly, how Reimer performs. Just no rush considering Luongo's history of coming out of the gate slowly.

Still think this is a deal that would get done closer to the deadline.

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12-22-2012, 08:57 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by HamhuisHip View Post
For those interested in FLA prospects San Antonio (farm team of FLA) is on SN right now.



Seen a bit of them over the course of the season. Shore is good, but needs to improve the pace in his skating. Petrovic is further away. Howden seems to get lost in the play.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Would you move Gardiner or your 1st for Luongo before the season starts? I know I wouldn't.

I just don't see a deal getting done here until Burke see's how his team performs, more importantly, how Reimer performs. Just no rush considering Luongo's history of coming out of the gate slowly.

Still think this is a deal that would get done closer to the deadline.





If I'm Burke, I would move a protected 1st (top10) before the season started.



If Reimer is good enough to carry them to the deadline and still have them within striking distance of the playoffs, why make the trade at all? Burke has had 82 games + to see what Reimer is capable of. He has stated, explicitly, that he's looking for a goaltending upgrade. This tells me he's made up his mind. His team fell off a cliff last year, and now suddenly he's got faith again? I don't see it. His motivation is to fix that hole and fix it fast. Whether he will submit to Gillis's price is an altogether different matter.



If no trade goes down before the season starts, then it will be clear the Gillis has still refused to move off his sky-high price. That's why a deal won't get done early. For Gillis, it's prudent to take Luongo into the season and see how Schneider does with a safety net in tow. For Burke, running with Reimer is again like rolling the dice on the season. A 10 or 20 game sample isn't going to show him enough to go against that viewpoint... or at least it shouldn't. The sample is too small, compared to the larger, more negative sample he already has.

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12-24-2012, 05:08 PM
  #437
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Luongo could "veto" any trade, and...

...i think Vancouver could be better off. Anything could happen in the season. Two competitive goaltender (the best duo in the league) could take the Canucks to the promised land. I don't see the need to trade him or cater to his request.

Do you think Van could compete well with him and Cory Schneider and win it all on goaltending alone?

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12-24-2012, 05:18 PM
  #438
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Great goaltending won't get you far in the playoffs if the team in front of you commits rookie defensive mistakes or can't generate any offense outside of the Sedin line. I think they could keep both goalies and win it all, they went to game 7 of the SCF with this duo. The problem is that with Schneider's new contract, the cap situation would be awfully tight with $9.3M cap hit tied up in the two of them. Adding to that problem is very little push for spots from cheaper rookie players on the farm. There is little room for error and guys like Kesler and Edler need to be in top form.

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Old
12-24-2012, 05:20 PM
  #439
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All depends on the new CBA.

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12-24-2012, 05:24 PM
  #440
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I think our goaltending could win us Championships, but it's more likely we falter. It's a team game, I know some people are prone to forgetting that when one guy makes a questionable play but it is a team game. When our team isn't doing too well as we've seen in the past Luongo usually doesn't do well and Schneider doesn't fare much better either. Playing a strong team game with a certain player stepping up every night is what got us to the Stanley Cup Finals in 2011 and I believe that is what it will take for us to get back there.

Having a goaltending duo such as Roberto and Cory is rare and a blessing, but I feel the team is much stronger if we could get contributing piece(s) to add to our line-up. We have more depth where we need it.

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12-24-2012, 06:17 PM
  #441
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It's nice to have two goalies the calibre or Luongo and Schneider in the Regular Season as it takes the workload off one another, I think that changes in the playoffs though. I don't like the idea of constantly swapping goalies in the playoffs because if one of them wins a game, that leaves the other to pitentially be rusty the next game they get in. One of them loses and the other goalie replaces then next game so the one that lost cant have a bounce back game instead they can dwell on that loss.

I also don't like the idea of having a good asset sit on the bench whereas we could use that asset to fill a need in our scoring issues.

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12-24-2012, 07:07 PM
  #442
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All depends on the new CBA.
Everybody seems to be ignoring this little fact. There is no point even discussing any potential trade until the CBA gets resolved.

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12-25-2012, 10:50 AM
  #443
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Everybody seems to be ignoring this little fact. There is no point even discussing any potential trade until the CBA gets resolved.
No sane people are ignoring it, only those whose arguements are hurt by realizing that a new CBA could make or break any Luongo trade and his value could either sky rocket or plummet, depending on the "Retirement" type contracts and who takes the hit for when he retires.
If the team taking the contract is the one taking the hit, it lowers what the Canucks will get. But, if the Canucks are the ones who take the cap hit when Luongo retires ( it is predicted he calls it a day either after the 17/18 season when his physical pay is 3.5mill or 18/19 season when he would earn only 1.6 mill a year). The cap hit could be up to 3mill a year for the teams involved for the final three years.

here is the math

If Luongo calls it a day after the 17/18 season he would have earned 57mill over 8 season meaning his cap hit would have been 7.125 and not the 5.333333mill that it was. Meaning for 8 seasons some one got 1.791 extra cap that they should not have gotten.
If he quits after the 18/19 season the difference is Luongo would have earned 60.832 mill with a cap hit of 6.719mill with a cap saving of 1.35 for the previous 9 years.

It is a lot of what ifs and or buts. If there is a penalty to the team taking that contract and they did not have the cap space from the previous 8 or 9 year or how ever long the time decided is, that will, in my opinion hurt the value.

But, if the team taking the contract gets off scot free, Luongos value goes through the roof and Gillis scores big time on the market.

Until the new CBA is in place it is only guessing what could happen

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12-26-2012, 05:58 PM
  #444
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...i think Vancouver could be better off. Anything could happen in the season. Two competitive goaltender (the best duo in the league) could take the Canucks to the promised land. I don't see the need to trade him or cater to his request.

Do you think Van could compete well with him and Cory Schneider and win it all on goaltending alone?
We did last year!!!

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12-27-2012, 11:26 AM
  #445
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Great goaltending won't get you far in the playoffs if the team in front of you commits rookie defensive mistakes or can't generate any offense outside of the Sedin line. I think they could keep both goalies and win it all, they went to game 7 of the SCF with this duo. The problem is that with Schneider's new contract, the cap situation would be awfully tight with $9.3M cap hit tied up in the two of them. Adding to that problem is very little push for spots from cheaper rookie players on the farm. There is little room for error and guys like Kesler and Edler need to be in top form.
If there is a season this year, cap space is a non issue because there are no quality FA's left

If its a full season lockout, then we are actually in a very good situation having assets to trade and a lot of free agents available

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12-28-2012, 09:30 AM
  #446
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Hi guys...just a question. TSN released a post saying the NHL tabled a new CBA offer to the PA on Friday. (link is on the Leafs board in the lockout thread, i'm on my phone and can't post links) It includes 1 compliance buyout prior to the 13-14 season which does not count against the cap....you think Gillis buys out Luongo?

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12-28-2012, 09:42 AM
  #447
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Hi guys...just a question. TSN released a post saying the NHL tabled a new CBA offer to the PA on Friday. (link is on the Leafs board in the lockout thread, i'm on my phone and can't post links) It includes 1 compliance buyout prior to the 13-14 season which does not count against the cap....you think Gillis buys out Luongo?
Not a chance. Ballard if anyone, which really wouldn't surprise me if the cap drops below last year's figure. Hopefully they can still pick him back up for cheap, but I'm not really sure how that would work.

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12-28-2012, 11:06 AM
  #448
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Not a chance. Ballard if anyone, which really wouldn't surprise me if the cap drops below last year's figure. Hopefully they can still pick him back up for cheap, but I'm not really sure how that would work.
Ah...i knew i was forgetting someone. Even if the cap goes down to 60 you guys are good right? I had somebody trying to tell me you would be screwed, but going by capgeek you look ok.

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12-28-2012, 12:39 PM
  #449
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Ah...i knew i was forgetting someone. Even if the cap goes down to 60 you guys are good right? I had somebody trying to tell me you would be screwed, but going by capgeek you look ok.
If we can buyout or dump Ballard, let Raymond and Malhotra walk(replacing them with Jensen and Schroeder on ELCs) and have Edler re-sign for a bit of a discount, maybe 5 mil, then we should be okay. Obviously trading Luongo would make it easier, but we wouldn't be the worst off if the cap drops to 60 mil.

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12-28-2012, 01:00 PM
  #450
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Ah...i knew i was forgetting someone. Even if the cap goes down to 60 you guys are good right? I had somebody trying to tell me you would be screwed, but going by capgeek you look ok.
We'd be pretty screwed, I think. Would definitely need to trade a goalie in the offseason, and even then we'd be in tough. Hopefully it winds up in the 62-63 million range.

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