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The Luongo Thread - "Make it stop, make it stop!"

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12-28-2012, 01:03 PM
  #451
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Ah...i knew i was forgetting someone. Even if the cap goes down to 60 you guys are good right? I had somebody trying to tell me you would be screwed, but going by capgeek you look ok.
Screwed? No, if we have a 60 mill cap, we have about 5.975 in salary walk in Raymond, Alberts and Malhotra, Ballard, assuming there is no season, will be buried, traded for peanuts or bought out (if there is an amnesty buy out clause), and we will stand pat on free agents, unless they sign for a huge discount. That's over 10 million we clear, and taking ELCs or bottom basement contracts in free agency to fill....well minor holes (a spare forward, a 4th line center/wing, a 5-6 Dman and a depth Dman), we're in no real danger.

We shall survive LL, we shall survive.

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12-28-2012, 01:07 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Screwed? No, if we have a 60 mill cap, we have about 5.975 in salary walk in Raymond, Alberts and Malhotra, Ballard, assuming there is no season, will be buried, traded for peanuts or bought out (if there is an amnesty buy out clause), and we will stand pat on free agents, unless they sign for a huge discount. That's over 10 million we clear, and taking ELCs or bottom basement contracts in free agency to fill....well minor holes (a spare forward, a 4th line center/wing, a 5-6 Dman and a depth Dman), we're in no real danger.

We shall survive LL, we shall survive.
That's what i thought. I told him to look at capgeek, but he figures the voices in his head are more accurate.

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12-28-2012, 01:09 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
We'd be pretty screwed, I think. Would definitely need to trade a goalie in the offseason, and even then we'd be in tough. Hopefully it winds up in the 62-63 million range.
Even at 60, it's easy to buyout Ballard and let a couple of your UFA's walk. Go with ELC guys or (and no, i'm not saying you should) trade Luongo for picks/prospects.

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12-28-2012, 01:16 PM
  #454
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Even at 60, it's easy to buyout Ballard and let a couple of your UFA's walk. Go with ELC guys or (and no, i'm not saying you should) trade Luongo for picks/prospects.
Even with the cap being at 60 million dollars, i am confident that some team will be interested for Ballard, and can you stop trying to get Luongo for cheap, its not going to happen, otherwise it already did. If there is indeed no deal then we will ride two goalies, it might not be such a bad idea after all in a shorten season.

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12-28-2012, 01:31 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Even at 60, it's easy to buyout Ballard and let a couple of your UFA's walk. Go with ELC guys or (and no, i'm not saying you should) trade Luongo for picks/prospects.
Our UFA's are pretty cheap already so we are not going to get anything close their quality if we let them go an sign players at even the same amount

Lapierre - 1.0 - replace with??????????
Higgins - 1.9 - replace with Jensen 0.89
Raymond - 2.25 - replace with Luongo proceeds?????
Malhotra - 2.5 - replace with Gaunce 1.087
Edler - 3.25 - resign at 5.0 (hopefully)
Alberts - 1.225 replace with Sauve 0.86

I fail to see any UFA savings. Ballard will need to go (and be replaced on the right side maybe with Luongo proceeds)

K-Con, Corrado are not going to help next year and Rodin is looking very suspect. From where I stand we are up against it for sure. Our window closes after this year (for a year at least). Next year could be ugly.I think it is imperative we re-up Lapierre and trade Raymond after a Lou deal is done.

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12-28-2012, 03:18 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
Even with the cap being at 60 million dollars, i am confident that some team will be interested for Ballard, and can you stop trying to get Luongo for cheap, its not going to happen, otherwise it already did. If there is indeed no deal then we will ride two goalies, it might not be such a bad idea after all in a shorten season.
Wow, did you miss the part were i said i don't think you should sell low. I have stated that if we are to have a shortened season, i have no interest in aquiring Luongo.

I was actually agreeing with you guys that you are good with the cap.....all this Luongo talk has everyone very defensive...geez.

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12-28-2012, 03:56 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
all this Luongo talk has everyone very defensive...geez.
Just what the hell is that supposed to mean?!

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12-28-2012, 03:57 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Wow, did you miss the part were i said i don't think you should sell low. I have stated that if we are to have a shortened season, i have no interest in aquiring Luongo.

I was actually agreeing with you guys that you are good with the cap.....all this Luongo talk has everyone very defensive...geez.
You did said flip Luongo for picks and prospects, it is indeed selling him low unless you are talking about Reilly and a roster player like Gardiner. Even for that package i am hesitated to move Luongo, for Reilly is still a question mark whether he can contribute immediately. We are a team that is currently in the window to win, that window might not last that long.

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12-28-2012, 04:02 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
You did said flip Luongo for picks and prospects, it is indeed selling him low unless you are talking about Reilly and a roster player like Gardiner. Even for that package i am hesitated to move Luongo, for Reilly is still a question mark whether he can contribute immediately. We are a team that is currently in the window to win, that window might not last that long.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Even at 60, it's easy to buyout Ballard and let a couple of your UFA's walk. Go with ELC guys or (and no, i'm not saying you should) trade Luongo for picks/prospects.
Uhh?

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12-28-2012, 06:07 PM
  #460
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This could put Philly into the mix, buy out Bryz...just saying

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12-28-2012, 06:14 PM
  #461
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This could put Philly into the mix, buy out Bryz...just saying
Nah, don't see it happening. If they're getting rid of Bryz, I doubt they want another goalie with a 10 year contract.
And I don't think they'd be willing to offer much for Luongo.

The buyout would happen in the off-season, so they would probably offer a contract to Backstrom, Nabokov, or Mike Smith.

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12-28-2012, 06:57 PM
  #462
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
That's what i thought. I told him to look at capgeek, but he figures the voices in his head are more accurate.
Every team has a way out, in the event every thing gets blown to hell in the CBA negotiations. I mean...even Chicago had a way out of cap hell. It wasn't preferable, but it got them to keep the core, and it's not like they lost the chance to repeat.

Just another epiphany from me on an unrelated note. I think think that Hansen is ready for a top six role, and we should be putting our focus into a solid two-way 2nd line center as a centerpiece for Luongo. Higgins and Hansen have great chemistry, and moving Hansen to 2RW with Kesler, as Hansen has shown playmaking skill, and Higgins just seems to compliment Kesler in general, we have a slightly weaker second line, and finding a playmaker that is strong enough defensively to play with Raymond (or Kassian, or hopefully Jensen) and Booth, and we have a terrifying line up.

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12-29-2012, 12:06 AM
  #463
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I'll agree with most of your post, but the bolded is presumptuous. Some of those teams where probably calling to see if they could get him cheap.
Perhaps,but my presumption comes with the fact GMs were looking to acquire a very long contract on a 33 yr old player before they had any idea what the landscape was. It is a very large risk on their part. I'd assume they were willing to take that risk due to their desire to acquire said player. Not sure what teams were calling to get him cheap, we've never been given that indication by the media - except perhaps Burkie (wanting a cap dump included). But there were 5 other teams calling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
The delay in the trade due to the CBA is affecting perception IMO. We are thinking like the season is still going on and Luongo has yet to move. Like there is difficulty in moving him. When really, GMs haven't been able to talk to each other about deals for a long time. So it's skewing the view on his value... something difficult to move must not have value etc...
Def agree with you on that. Impatience and inability to see the circumstances (lockout = no communication about players) are starting to get to people.

On a sidenote, NHLs agreed to buyouts not counting under cap (but under players share instead). I'm really interested to see whether Philly uses it on Bryz. I believe they want him off their team and payroll, wouldn't be surprised if they did. Also, LeBrun said the $60M cap isn't going to fly with the players. It's something they're willing to fight for. I'm guessing the cap will be around $63 or $64M for 2013-14 season - which would put Nucks in a good spot assuming they can trade Ballard.


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12-29-2012, 01:56 AM
  #464
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Every team has a way out, in the event every thing gets blown to hell in the CBA negotiations. I mean...even Chicago had a way out of cap hell. It wasn't preferable, but it got them to keep the core, and it's not like they lost the chance to repeat.

Just another epiphany from me on an unrelated note. I think think that Hansen is ready for a top six role, and we should be putting our focus into a solid two-way 2nd line center as a centerpiece for Luongo. Higgins and Hansen have great chemistry, and moving Hansen to 2RW with Kesler, as Hansen has shown playmaking skill, and Higgins just seems to compliment Kesler in general, we have a slightly weaker second line, and finding a playmaker that is strong enough defensively to play with Raymond (or Kassian, or hopefully Jensen) and Booth, and we have a terrifying line up.
Hansen on the second line would be a curious endeavor, although I am somewhat wary if he could make the transition into a 50+ point player. Certainly worth a dice roll during the season to see what he's capable of given more minutes. We did manage to turn Burrows into a steal. In this case, Booth and Raymond/Jensen might pair well together on a sort of B second line if we could acquire someone with a little speed. Should the Habs fall flat again, Plekanec could very well be an option. Kadri remains the piece of interest from Toronto and Nielsen is promising if we could pitch something Long Island would get on board with.

Edit: Because I forgot Booth.

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12-29-2012, 11:59 AM
  #465
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Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
Perhaps,but my presumption comes with the fact GMs were looking to acquire a very long contract on a 33 yr old player before they had any idea what the landscape was. It is a very large risk on their part. I'd assume they were willing to take that risk due to their desire to acquire said player. Not sure what teams were calling to get him cheap, we've never been given that indication by the media - except perhaps Burkie (wanting a cap dump included). But there were 5 other teams calling.



Def agree with you on that. Impatience and inability to see the circumstances (lockout = no communication about players) are starting to get to people.

On a sidenote, NHLs agreed to buyouts not counting under cap (but under players share instead). I'm really interested to see whether Philly uses it on Bryz. I believe they want him off their team and payroll, wouldn't be surprised if they did. Also, LeBrun said the $60M cap isn't going to fly with the players. It's something they're willing to fight for. I'm guessing the cap will be around $63 or $64M for 2013-14 season - which would put Nucks in a good spot assuming they can trade Ballard.
I don't think we would need to, if that is where the cap falls. I can make a 60 mil Vancouver team and keep Edler at a raise without Ballard. It just means we bring in a few rookies. So with 64 mil, it would give us a lot more flexibility. We still might I guess, but the key is we would not have to and would not need to sell low.

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12-29-2012, 06:10 PM
  #466
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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
We'd be pretty screwed, I think. Would definitely need to trade a goalie in the offseason, and even then we'd be in tough. Hopefully it winds up in the 62-63 million range.


As long as Luongo and Ballard are dealt, we would be fine. Edler is a sticking point though because he would have to take a 5m max salary. But if he does, then everything will fit.



Check the armchair thread for some rosters. "Pretty screwed" is not a term I would use to describe them...

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12-29-2012, 06:17 PM
  #467
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
As long as Luongo and Ballard are dealt, we would be fine. Edler is a sticking point though because he would have to take a 5m max salary. But if he does, then everything will fit.



Check the armchair thread for some rosters. "Pretty screwed" is not a term I would use to describe them...
The situation with Ballard looks like it's going to work out for us. He'll get this season to improve his trade value or it looks like we'll be able to buy him out next offseason with no cap penalty if it comes to that.

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12-30-2012, 06:03 AM
  #468
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Edler just had more surgery and therapy, plus Gillis didn't re-sign him. Does this mean Edler is done in Vancouver, no, but it's trending that way. Mike Gillis lives in his own world, but has shown he can re-sign guys. Yet, no deal for Edler. Why? Is it an oversight?

Mike Gillis doesn't make mistakes. You could ask him, he'll admit it. He won't buy out a contract that he negotiated because that would be admitting an error. He already looks errorish over the Luongo contract, so I don't think he'll risk the optics.

I think it is much more likely that Edler is just allowed to follow Ohlund, Mitchell and Salo. As far as Ballard being bought out, I doubt it. He could have been moved by now, after it became apparent that Vignault won't use him.

The answer must come from the Luongo trade, if it comes at all. Luongo has to go for the team to be viable on the ice and in compliance. This should come after this core makes its last run at the cup.

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12-30-2012, 12:53 PM
  #469
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I find it laughable once again how the media is trying to lower luongo's value. lol @ buying him out

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12-30-2012, 01:03 PM
  #470
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Hansen on the second line would be a curious endeavor, although I am somewhat wary if he could make the transition into a 50+ point player. Certainly worth a dice roll during the season to see what he's capable of given more minutes. We did manage to turn Burrows into a steal. In this case, Booth and Raymond/Jensen might pair well together on a sort of B second line if we could acquire someone with a little speed. Should the Habs fall flat again, Plekanec could very well be an option. Kadri remains the piece of interest from Toronto and Nielsen is promising if we could pitch something Long Island would get on board with.

Edit: Because I forgot Booth.
Well he's like Henrik in that he is so eager to set up a play, that he often misses shooting the puck. I think we could have a match, look at the HBK line from a few years ago. Higgins-Kesler-Hansen would be a terrific shut down line, or a balanced scoring line that is great defensively.

Booth-???-Jensen has speed on the wings and some size, or Raymond, if Jensen doesn't make the Canucks when we're back, could work well as both are North-South players, with Raymond definately showing he is capable of playing defense. Kassian would make a heck of an impact with Booth if he gets his offense together at the NHL level a lot of us are expecting him to. I think the style of play that line plays would be 100% dependant on the center we have. Lapierre would make it more of a grind line, ditto Arnott, but someone like, hear me out here, Bozak, could have Booth and Raymond/Jensen/Kassian contributing offensively. Schroeder could go either way. Kadri would be all offense or nothing IMO.

Pleks would be GOLDEN if we could meet Montreal's asking price. I just don't want to strip our prospect cupboard bare again, and I'd rather keep our first this year...so that...kind of leaves us out of the running. Ballard, Raymond and a second?

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12-30-2012, 07:23 PM
  #471
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Edler just had more surgery and therapy, plus Gillis didn't re-sign him. Does this mean Edler is done in Vancouver, no, but it's trending that way. Mike Gillis lives in his own world, but has shown he can re-sign guys. Yet, no deal for Edler. Why? Is it an oversight?

Mike Gillis doesn't make mistakes. You could ask him, he'll admit it. He won't buy out a contract that he negotiated because that would be admitting an error. He already looks errorish over the Luongo contract, so I don't think he'll risk the optics.

I think it is much more likely that Edler is just allowed to follow Ohlund, Mitchell and Salo. As far as Ballard being bought out, I doubt it. He could have been moved by now, after it became apparent that Vignault won't use him.

The answer must come from the Luongo trade, if it comes at all. Luongo has to go for the team to be viable on the ice and in compliance. This should come after this core makes its last run at the cup.
Gillis can't force Edler to sign an extension. Pretty sure he will stay and will be a key player for us for years to come.

And it is only fans and Brian Burke that don't like long contracts. The fans don't understand how contracts work or that his contract is good market value for a #1 goalie. Brian Burke also doesn't understand, but he will once the star player that he mortgaged the entire future of the franchise walks away at the end of next season.

Hamilton and Seguin will be like a bad dream for the next decade for Leafs fans, and for what? Seems that he should have signed him to a long term deal eh?

What should we have done? Signed Lou to a three year deal? He would be gone with NO return at the end of this season. The fact that he is locked up until he retires is actually positive selling point, no team can wait till he is a UFA, he's never going to be one again. Even better considering that the luxury is about to not exist anymore.

But go ahead, keep suggesting that our team should be run like the Maple Leafs.

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12-30-2012, 10:58 PM
  #472
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I don't think we would need to, if that is where the cap falls. I can make a 60 mil Vancouver team and keep Edler at a raise without Ballard. It just means we bring in a few rookies. So with 64 mil, it would give us a lot more flexibility. We still might I guess, but the key is we would not have to and would not need to sell low.
Ya, that's a good point. I haven't mapped it out on capgeek. I've forgotten Raymonds $2.3M and Malhotras $2.5M will be off the books, likely. Canucks also have a number of young guys who will be pushing for roster spots next yr (Connauton, Jensen, Schroeder, Lack - perhaps Corrado). Plus, whatever ELC they get in a goalie trade. They might be fine. I've always thought the cap would be around $63-64M next season, $65M tops. It seems to be heading that way.


Sidenote, Gary Valk said last night he heard a rumor Eddie Lack might need surgery on his hip now. He hasn't played since Nov.

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12-30-2012, 11:17 PM
  #473
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Burke may want Luongo to save his job but I don't think that means it's what is best for the organization. All Luongo does is bring them to respectability - he doesn't make them a serious contender.

If a new GM took over the reins right now for Burke do you think he should move quality young assets to acquire a 34 year old goaltender? I know it's not something I would look at if the goal was to build a championship calibre team. The building blocks simply aren't in place and all Luongo does is hurt the franchises ability to bring in those type of talents.

You bring in a Luongo before the season starts and run the risk of Jay Feaster'ing the organization. The race for 8th mentality just isn't the right one IMO.

Hopefully Burke feels pressured into paying a hefty price for Luongo. However, that doesn't make it the right play.

That's actually impossible to gauge. What will be true(if the Leafs are lucky enough to get Luongo) is that a top 10 scoring team from last year will add a world class goaltender. If you look at all the top ten scoring teams from last year, only the Bruins and Preds had a goaltender of Luongo's calibre, and Thomas will be strapped to a bed somewhere next season anyways lol.

You'd have to think that Burke won't stop there if he got Luongo, he claimed that their would be major overhaul in the off-season once the CBA was settled so I don't think he'd stop at one move IMHO. I can see him really eyeing a player like Stastny, and the addition of both a Stastny type and a Luongo make the Leafs a contender IMHO.

OR, we just hope the season fails and pick up Mike Smith or someone in the off-season lol.

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12-30-2012, 11:19 PM
  #474
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Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
You did said flip Luongo for picks and prospects, it is indeed selling him low unless you are talking about Reilly and a roster player like Gardiner. Even for that package i am hesitated to move Luongo, for Reilly is still a question mark whether he can contribute immediately. We are a team that is currently in the window to win, that window might not last that long.
To be fair, if a team offers you a lottery pick for a what is essentially a salary dump(on your part) you take it.

Rielly currently leads all Dmen in scoring at the WJC as well, he'd be a great addition to any organization.

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12-30-2012, 11:22 PM
  #475
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To be fair, if a team offers you a lottery pick for a what is essentially a salary dump(on your part) you take it.
Except Luongo really isn't.

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