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Paul Krugman Calls Out Republican Hypocrisy on the "Fiscal Cliff"

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01-01-2013, 03:40 PM
  #401
Led Zappa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugmo View Post
Was he talking about all of them... even the middle class tax cuts?

If so, that's fascinating - not too often that I agree entirely with a Republican and disagree completely with a Democrat.
From 2010:

Rep. Darrell Issa, a California Republican, says he'll oppose any compromise that fails to make permanent Bush-era tax cuts for the most wealthy Americans.
Issa, in line to head the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, said Monday on ABC's "Good Morning America" that "tax certainty" is probably more important for investors than for other Americans, to give them incentives to make investments that create jobs.


So, here he is essentially saying tax cuts pay for themselves and today saying they were never payed for and we need to cut stuff.

So, which Issa are you agreeing with


http://www.cnbc.com/id/40067741/Rep_..._Bush_Tax_Cuts




Hence my use of the emoticon. I shoulda used a bazillion of em.

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Old
01-01-2013, 03:41 PM
  #402
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Ah, okay, thanks. So it's starve the beast all over again. I should have known.

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01-01-2013, 04:20 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by Lost Horizons View Post
You seem to be ignoring the fact that revenue was highest under Bush and hasn't come close since. Even when adjusting for inflation no other presdent comes close. You can keep saying raise more revenue when it has been shown that even when tax rates were higher and when you adjust for inflation we still can't cover Obama's spending
Why is it "Obama's spending"? Fiscal Year 2009 included TARP, and of course the spending as percentage of GDP rose in 2009 when you include stimulus and TARP plus the economy shrinking significantly due to the GFC. You're trying to turn this into a partisan issue by pinning the whole thing on Obama when in reality, spending grew drastically under Bush and has continued to grow under Obama, but at a lower rate.

If you really care about deficits and the national debt, then you should support higher taxes. If you're a partisan stooge, as you appear to be, then you blame one guy or one party and say things like "it's not a revenue problem."

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01-01-2013, 04:22 PM
  #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
Why is it "Obama's spending"? Fiscal Year 2009 included TARP, and of course the spending as percentage of GDP rose in 2009 when you include stimulus and TARP plus the economy shrinking significantly due to the GFC. You're trying to turn this into a partisan issue by pinning the whole thing on Obama when in reality, spending grew drastically under Bush and has continued to grow under Obama, but at a lower rate.

If you really care about deficits and the national debt, then you should support higher taxes. If you're a partisan stooge, as you appear to be, then you blame one guy or one party and say things like "it's not a revenue problem."
He has no idea what he's talking about, Ilkka. Anyone who parrots an article like that joke of one by the former Reagan stooge deserves to be treated as a buffoon.

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01-01-2013, 04:32 PM
  #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
He has no idea what he's talking about, Ilkka. Anyone who parrots an article like that joke of one by the former Reagan stooge deserves to be treated as a buffoon.
He's still talking about taxation like reducing taxes makes revenue go up. I thought the appropriately-named Laffer Curve was debunked years ago. Turns out that some are still fighting that war.

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01-01-2013, 04:52 PM
  #406
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Luke Russert ‏@LukeRussert RT: @JimPethokoukis: "We are raising our odds of a debt default from 10% to 20%." - Washington Research Group

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01-01-2013, 05:04 PM
  #407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
The government is raking in $1,800,000,000,000 in Income taxes alone. Explain to me how that is a "revenue problem."
Because u have to have spending on ****. The military is not the only thing that needs spending.

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01-01-2013, 06:30 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
The government is raking in $1,800,000,000,000 in Income taxes alone. Explain to me how that is a "revenue problem."
But there are over 300,000,000 people in America! That's a big number too!!!

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01-01-2013, 08:06 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
He has no idea what he's talking about, Ilkka. Anyone who parrots an article like that joke of one by the former Reagan stooge deserves to be treated as a buffoon.
I see you've glossed over the WP article that confirms Obama spending streak. Although I bet you didn't even read it because again like i said before it basically disproved your article on Obama's spending.

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01-01-2013, 08:14 PM
  #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
Why is it "Obama's spending"? Fiscal Year 2009 included TARP, and of course the spending as percentage of GDP rose in 2009 when you include stimulus and TARP plus the economy shrinking significantly due to the GFC. You're trying to turn this into a partisan issue by pinning the whole thing on Obama when in reality, spending grew drastically under Bush and has continued to grow under Obama, but at a lower rate.
Tarp programs and stimulus bills like Obama 890+ billion were supplemental bills and not included in the budgets for those years much like the Iraq and Afgahnisthan wars were not in the budgets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
If you really care about deficits and the national debt, then you should support higher taxes. If you're a partisan stooge, as you appear to be, then you blame one guy or one party and say things like "it's not a revenue problem."
It's a spending problem. The budget went from $2.9 trillion to $3.7 trillion in 6 years. If the Budget stayed the same from from then we would only have about $400 billion dollar deficit instead we have a current $1.3 trillion dollar deficient.

If you think higher taxes are going to solve anything look at what just happens. The feds just look at it as a reason to spend.

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01-01-2013, 08:17 PM
  #411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Horizons View Post
Tarp programs and stimulus bills like Obama 890+ billion were supplemental bills and not included in the budgets for those years much like the Iraq and Afgahnisthan wars were not in the budgets.



It's a spending problem. The budget went from $2.9 trillion to $3.7 trillion in 6 years. If the Budget stayed the same from from then we would only have about $400 billion dollar deficit instead we have a current $1.3 trillion dollar deficient.

If you think higher taxes are going to solve anything look at what just happens. The feds just look at it as a reason to spend.
What new policies did Obama implement and what were their costs by year?

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01-01-2013, 08:19 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
What new policies did Obama implement and what were their costs by year?
From 2010 :


Mandatory spending: $2.173 trillion (+14.9%)
$695 billion (+4.9%) Social Security
$571 billion (+58.6%) Unemployment/Welfare/Other mandatory spending
$453 billion (+6.6%) Medicare
$290 billion (+12.0%) Medicaid
$164 billion (+18.0%) Interest on National Debt

US receipt and expenditure estimates for fiscal year 2010.

Discretionary spending: $1.378 trillion (+13.8%)
$663.7 billion (+12.7%) Department of Defense (including Overseas Contingency Operations)
$78.7 billion (−1.7%) Department of Health and Human Services
$72.5 billion (+2.8%) Department of Transportation
$52.5 billion (+10.3%) Department of Veterans Affairs
$51.7 billion (+40.9%) Department of State and Other International Programs
$47.5 billion (+18.5%) Department of Housing and Urban Development
$46.7 billion (+12.8%) Department of Education
$42.7 billion (+1.2%) Department of Homeland Security
$26.3 billion (−0.4%) Department of Energy
$26.0 billion (+8.8%) Department of Agriculture
$23.9 billion (−6.3%) Department of Justice
$18.7 billion (+5.1%) National Aeronautics and Space Administration
$13.8 billion (+48.4%) Department of Commerce
$13.3 billion (+4.7%) Department of Labor
$13.3 billion (+4.7%) Department of the Treasury
$12.0 billion (+6.2%) Department of the Interior
$10.5 billion (+34.6%) Environmental Protection Agency
$9.7 billion (+10.2%) Social Security Administration
$7.0 billion (+1.4%) National Science Foundation
$5.1 billion (−3.8%) Corps of Engineers
$5.0 billion (+100%-NA) National Infrastructure Bank
$1.1 billion (+22.2%) Corporation for National and Community Service
$0.7 billion (0.0%) Small Business Administration
$0.6 billion (−14.3%) General Services Administration
$0 billion (−100%-NA) Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP)
$0 billion (−100%-NA) Financial stabilization efforts
$11 billion (+275%-NA) Potential disaster costs
$19.8 billion (+3.7%) Other Agencies
$105 billion Other


Awful lot of + there

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01-01-2013, 08:21 PM
  #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lost horizons View Post
from 2010 :


Stuff


awful lot of + there
NEW POLICIES BY OBAMA......


xxx

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01-01-2013, 08:27 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
NEW POLICIES BY OBAMA......


xxx
Green energy,stimulus projects,Obamacare etc

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01-01-2013, 08:28 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by Lost Horizons View Post
It's a spending problem.
Forget it. You keep repeating the same garbage. I don't disagree that spending has grown excessively, but if you're just going to keep repeating the dumbass talking point that "it's a spending problem" and "they just look at revenue as an excuse to grow the government" then I'm not going to waste my time with your posts.

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01-01-2013, 08:28 PM
  #416
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Originally Posted by Lost Horizons View Post
Green energy,stimulus projects,Obamacare etc
Numbers please.

Obamacare hasn't even been implemented. I'd love to see the numbers on that which helped increase his past deficits.

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01-01-2013, 08:32 PM
  #417
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Here, I'll give you some help:



And that includes the Stimulus which many of us believe were necessary and a large percentage of which were TAX CUTS.

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01-01-2013, 08:37 PM
  #418
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Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
Forget it. You keep repeating the same garbage. I don't disagree that spending has grown excessively, but if you're just going to keep repeating the dumbass talking point that "it's a spending problem" and "they just look at revenue as an excuse to grow the government" then I'm not going to waste my time with your posts.
Can't deal with the truth then? If the budget froze back to 2008 levels we would only have a few hundred billion instead of the trillion we have now. The budget has gone from $2.9 to $3.8 trillion in 5 years. You can't tax this country high enough to close that gap. You have to cut spending. You want new taxes? I want a national sales tax just for reducing the debt but we ain't going to get it.

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01-01-2013, 08:40 PM
  #419
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
Numbers please.
I'm not breaking down EPA budget but when you see an increase of 34% over the previous year it's not by accident.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
Obamacare hasn't even been implemented. I'd love to see the numbers on that which helped increase his past deficits.
The first money for Obama care started being doled to states and counties out in 2010


Last edited by Lost Horizons: 01-01-2013 at 08:50 PM.
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01-01-2013, 08:48 PM
  #420
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So what? We have to invest in order to get out of this mess. You want the middle class to pay for the mistakes and crimes of the corporate executive class.

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01-01-2013, 08:55 PM
  #421
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Originally Posted by Lost Horizons View Post
I'm not breaking down EPA budget but when you see an increase of 34% over the previous year it's not by accident.
Actually it was completely by accident; the EPA budget skyrocketed that year because that was the year that the enormous Gulf of Mexico oil spill happened. The EPA budget fell by $1.5b from 2010 to 2011, and almost $2b from 2010 to 2012.

The EPA funding went down during Bush's administration (not surprising at all). From the last year of the Bush Administration, EPA funding ($8.5b in 2012) increased by 11.5%. From the last year of the Clinton Administration, EPA funding increased by 10%. Is 10% an outrageous increase over a 12 year period?


Last edited by Ilkka Sinisalo: 01-01-2013 at 09:07 PM.
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01-04-2013, 03:06 AM
  #422
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Uncle Joe to the rescue saves the day.

Biden 2016!

Still remember him schooling Eddie Munster in the VP debate.

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