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Lockout continues Part V - Hockey cancelled till January 14th

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Old
12-11-2012, 10:25 AM
  #251
The Podium
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Originally Posted by Anthrax442 View Post
Last lockout addressed some issues but raised news ones. Can't put in a brand new financial system in and not expect any kinks.





If you think that every one of Apple's ideas was original and they haven't stolen a single piece of technology, you are sadly mistaken. These companies steal technology and ideas from each other on a daily basis.

The only difference between them is that one of them had a turtleneck and hipsters loved him.
No the only difference is gates was his apprentice he was working first hand on the project, then launched windows before jobs had a chance to launch apples OS. The 5 year project was then scrapped and apple had to start from the beginning. This in turned lead to the apple crash, Steve jobs being fired and starting Pixar, then coming back with the iPod. It's been all up hill from there, but gates back stabbing lead to jobs crash for a small period of time.

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12-11-2012, 10:26 AM
  #252
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crunch time
the final straw
D-Week

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Old
12-11-2012, 11:00 AM
  #253
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crunch time
the final straw
D-Week
If a new CBA deal is reached I'm hoping it doesn't happen for a few more weeks..

The WJC Christmas tournament is among my favourite hockey of the year.. A settlement in the next week or so could really screw up Team Canada at this event by losing key players to the NHL camps instead of playing for their country.

Since we have gone this long already, another week or so is just fine by me in order to protect the World Junior tournament this year. The lockout in fact could make this one of the best tournaments on talent available for all countries involved.

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12-11-2012, 11:14 AM
  #254
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is Jan 9th a significant date ?

thats when the half season started back in the 90s lockout i think
48 games
NJ won the cup

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12-11-2012, 11:14 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Pilky01 View Post
This 5 year contract limit is another example of how stupid the NHL is.

That would only benefit big market teams. Taking away the small market's opportunity to offer a ridiculous term negates their bargaining power. If five years is the max anybody can offer, then why wouldn't the players go to markets where they can maximize their off ice earning potential?

Half way through that CBA, when Nashville, Phoenix and Florida start losing marquee free agents to Toronto, New York and Detroit after just five years, those owners will start complaining that it is too short.

The owners will never settle on a solution. The grass will always be greener to them.

If the players do that, then they truly are as dumb as you say they are.
Because historically, it's known that those are exactly the teams that have not only benefited from cap circumventing contracts, but couldn't have survived without it. Where do you get all this ****?

It's teams like the Flyers, and Rangers - who can afford to sign those $100M contracts, and front load them so a player earns more than half of that in the first few years - that are trying to use unethical (not in the spirit of the old CBA) bullying tactics to get some free agents.

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12-11-2012, 11:15 AM
  #256
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No the only difference is gates was his apprentice he was working first hand on the project, then launched windows before jobs had a chance to launch apples OS. The 5 year project was then scrapped and apple had to start from the beginning. This in turned lead to the apple crash, Steve jobs being fired and starting Pixar, then coming back with the iPod. It's been all up hill from there, but gates back stabbing lead to jobs crash for a small period of time.
If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying.

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12-11-2012, 12:12 PM
  #257
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Bob McCown said it best - Fehr should be more concerned about growing the revenues overall and pushing GB to move more teams to proper markets and get rid of a couple.

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12-11-2012, 12:16 PM
  #258
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Bob McCown said it best - Fehr should be more concerned about growing the revenues overall and pushing GB to move more teams to proper markets and get rid of a couple.
While I completely agree, it's laughable that a player's union has to prescribe obvious business solutions to a commissioner.

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12-11-2012, 01:02 PM
  #259
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Bob McCown said it best - Fehr should be more concerned about growing the revenues overall and pushing GB to move more teams to proper markets and get rid of a couple.
A union leader that gets rid of jobs, ya that's likely...

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12-11-2012, 01:08 PM
  #260
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Lock out done by x-mas

I think all the "DRAMA" is done now, they will come to an agreement, I'll eat crow if we don't see NHL hockey in the new year, what do you think. Anyone agree or does anyone know how to cook a good crow.

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12-11-2012, 01:19 PM
  #261
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I think all the "DRAMA" is done now, they will come to an agreement, I'll eat crow if we don't see NHL hockey in the new year, what do you think. Anyone agree or does anyone know how to cook a good crow.
http://bertc.com/subfive/recipes/threecrows.htm

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12-11-2012, 01:24 PM
  #262
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He he snikker

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12-11-2012, 01:26 PM
  #263
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A union leader that gets rid of jobs, ya that's likely...
It's all business from both sides, noone wants to give up a cent. That's why I don't feel bad for the players, they'll make their dough, and keep on their lavish lifestyle no matter what. They don't care about none of us. I don't care about them. They are a product, just like yogurt is. I am a Leaf fan. I have seen what? 50 different players put on the Leaf jersey in the past 10 years? They'll come and go. Leafs are forever!

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12-11-2012, 01:38 PM
  #264
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Well in the west the propagand is the old KGB is now the organized crime of Russia, and while there is and has probably always been organized crime in North America, most people are not involved. However, for those that are it would be called brutal.

However, as far as monetary compensation, the government doesn't pay exceptional contracts at any time (except for hidden expense claims), so not surprising if Tretiak and Larionov weren't well paid. Go back in time though NHL players didn't make enough money during the season and had to have summer jobs.

Times change, and thanks to organizing the NHL players now make plenty. Free market has forced other leagues around the world to follow suit.
Very much agree with your "compesation statements", the professional athletes of the 1970s-1990s weren't THAT much more above the rest. Most just received "special treatment" and were celebrated as national heros, so even though they would not have become millionares, their lifestyles were often MUCH better than the average doctors or scientist because they had first dibs on vacationing on the black sea resorts in the summer time, mountains in the winter, etc.

With regards to organized crime, it really blew up post 1991 and yes many ex-KGB folks involved but also a ton of opportunists who were in charge of lets say an oil refinary or a lumber mill. They found ways to "purchase" these assests from the government and become virtually instantly rich (often through violence).

The thing with organized crime though is that generally it doesn't affect regular citizens and if often MUCH less traumatic to society that gangs and drug cartels. I work in a related field now here in Canada so speaking from experience.

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The fist unclenched somewhat past Andropov. Chernenko was mild and he was very sick and passed fairly quickly. I remember being in a shoe store when they announced his death with my mother. One of the cashiers started crying. Gorbachev was all about carving his name in history, a lot of reforms and lifting of the iron curtain.
Agreed, i have read about Andropov and Chernenko. My dad has relatively positive things to say. Similarly, most people probably wouldn't realize, but many people loved Lenin. Right up until he died he was very concerned about Stalin coming into power because Stalin's views were very much against what Lenin had hoped for.

Anyway, can get really political quickly hehe...


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While I appreciate the first hand account, I cannot agree with it.

The Soviet Union may not have been as bad as it was from the 1920's on through to the 1960's, but it was still a totalitarian state. Citizens were not entitled to a public or private life, the KGB was active and as brutal as ever, dissent was put down with violence, a Russification policy was still being pursued, and most relevant to the topic at hand, wages were insignificant.

The average citizen had difficulty putting food on their table. It is outrageous to compare what Soviet hockey players earned under such a disgusting regime to NHL players who, in theory at least, get paid what the market gives them (when the NHL is not trying to artificially drive down wages).
The average citizens were not hunted by the KGB in the 1980s and 90s. I was born and grew up in Kiev, Ukraine. Although it is true that Russian was enforced as the primary language in all parts of the Soviet Union, noone held a gun to your head if you spoke Ukrainian. School was taught in Russian but we still have Ukraining classes every single day and all kids i knew where fluent in both languages.

As i briefly mentioned in my first post, my family WAS NOT anywhere near middle-class...we were pretty dirt poor in comparisson to the rest. Largely because of the fact that both of my parents where nuclear physicist's and got paid by the state institute which wasn't able to pay their staff from time to time. At one point in ~1993-1994 my parents had worked for 6+months without a pay cheque but the institute kept operating and most people kept coming to work because the average person in the USSR was actually a very honest and decent individual (i would have ****ed off a long time ago but my parents are better people ).

Its not to say that there was no propaganda, obviously the Soviets had their spin but my point really is that the Western view on what was going on inside the USSR was also twisted and often based on some biased opinion. The truth is not on either side, its somewhere in the grey middle.

You are right about the wages and really most of my first post was not revelant to hockey (since i am quite annoyed with both NHL and NHLPA), i thought it would be fun to change topics a bit and hopefully some of you believe my account of what occured.


What i have always said to people who i meet here in North America on the subject is that even though there was all kinds of crap that went on in the soviet union and people in satellite states got the short end of the stick most of the time, terrible murders and artificial famines that happened throughout 1920s-1960s...all caused some either political maneuvering or personal greed.....BUT moving into the 1980s and 1990s most of the day-to-day people who lived in the Soviet Union were actually quiete honest and caring for their neighbor many time more so than what we see today in North America. With no way to rely on the state, people relied on each other and life was ok....not brutal as many will try to portray. The brutalities really weren't as frequent as some may want to make you believe.


Alright...back to work lol

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Old
12-11-2012, 03:54 PM
  #265
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One of the reasons they were getting paid less, with the exception of the whole Communism thing, most Russian or "Soviet" athletes were holding a Semi Professional status. This way they could participate in the Olympics, and the NHLers couldn't. It was true in many other sports. They dominated in Universiades too in the same way.

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12-11-2012, 09:20 PM
  #266
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*IF* The New CBA resticts conracts to 5 years, is that huge for Burke?

He has no problem handing out big contracts for 5 years, but hardly lifts a finger in trying to sign anyone that wanted a long-term "Retirement" contract.

With Burke having a ton of cap room to play with, could this big a big bonus for him as it lifts his personal restrictions against signing UFA's or any of his own players.

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12-11-2012, 09:24 PM
  #267
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If you're referring to players coming here I'm saying doubtful cause Toronto isn't usually first on people's destinations to sign list

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12-11-2012, 09:25 PM
  #268
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If you're referring to players coming here I'm saying doubtful cause Toronto isn't usually first on people's destinations to sign list
A lot of UFA's don't sign with contenders.

Point being is the 8-15 year contracts were never going to happen with Burke.

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12-11-2012, 10:11 PM
  #269
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He has no problem handing out big contracts for 5 years, but hardly lifts a finger in trying to sign anyone that wanted a long-term "Retirement" contract.

With Burke having a ton of cap room to play with, could this big a big bonus for him as it lifts his personal restrictions against signing UFA's or any of his own players.
The shorter the term the lower the odds of signing UFAs becomes, because more teams now enter the picture if contract lengths and front loaded contract (which benefit rich teams) is the new CBA operating practice.

The more teams involved in pursuit of a UFA the lesser the odds of success becomes due to competition numbers for the same players.

Also with NHL's latest offer of 5 years for UFA players but 7 year contracts allowed for re-signing your own players, more players will take the 7 years security and stay and that dries up the UFA market.

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12-11-2012, 10:21 PM
  #270
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you mean luongo.

how many yr are left on his contract ?

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12-11-2012, 10:28 PM
  #271
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MEDIATORS TO JOIN NHL-NHLPA TALKS AT A PRIVATE LOCATION WEDNESDAY
the canadian press 12/11/2012 7:05:54 PM

The sides are set to resume talks at an undisclosed location Wednesday with U.S. federal mediators Scot L. Beckenbaugh and John Sweeney rejoining the process. Those men first met with league and union leaders Nov. 27 and 28 before deciding they couldn't help negotiations along.

"My comments from a couple of days ago stand on their own," Fehr said Saturday. "I think we were very close."
"It's good they're talking and hopefully something good comes out of it," Penguins captain Sidney Crosby told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette on Tuesday.


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12-12-2012, 06:55 AM
  #272
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Didn't the mediators run to the hills last time around?

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12-12-2012, 09:19 AM
  #273
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These 2 clowns look like a couple of failed used car salesmen on their way to another job interview!

Or the greedy whiny failed union heads of a hockey PA that has flushed millions & millions of dollars in their membership's contract salaries down the sewer? LOL



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Old
12-12-2012, 09:31 AM
  #274
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Didn't the mediators run to the hills last time around?
Bettman and the Owners reluctantly have them back into the meetings at Fehr's request as its the NHLPA's desire to get a deal done.

Hopefully the mediators can talk some sense into the NHL and find some middle ground and get Bettman off his take it or leave it bargaining strategy. Since they were in the meeting last the Owners have upped their "make whole" portion of existing contracts from $211 mil to $300, which brought the sides closer together.

The two sides apparently are close on the money, and just need to iron out player contracting rights, CBA length and transition terms.

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12-12-2012, 09:38 AM
  #275
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Bettman and the Owners reluctantly have them back into the meetings at Fehr's request as its the NHLPA's desire to get a deal done.

Hopefully the mediators can talk some sense into the NHL and find some middle ground and get Bettman off his take it or leave it bargaining strategy. Since they were in the meeting last the Owners have upped their "make whole" portion of existing contracts from $211 mil to $300, which brought the sides closer together.

The two sides apparently are close on the money, and just need to iron out player contracting rights, CBA length and transition terms.
How do you know the Owners are reluctant?

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