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Old
12-07-2012, 08:49 PM
  #1
Vankiller Whale
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More Luongo Talk

Last one was way over, so I started a new one.



Moderator Edit: A reminder to you all as stated in the previous Luongo threads:

Get an infraction in here, get removed from the entire trade board.

previous thread


Last edited by spiny norman: 12-07-2012 at 10:33 PM. Reason: added note
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Old
12-07-2012, 08:51 PM
  #2
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
makes this _not_ a choice. He's made the decision. Now Gillis has to abide by it eventually. It's not necessary that he goes to TO either, but they have the greatest need and have been hotly rumoured in talks. Does that mean he has to go there? No, of course not. But it does mean that it makes a lot of sense for him to go there.
I disagree that Luongo specifically wants out, I think it's more likely he just want to be a full-time starter. If push comes to shove I don't see trading Schneider as completely out of the question.

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12-07-2012, 09:07 PM
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I disagree that Luongo specifically wants out, I think it's more likely he just want to be a full-time starter. If push comes to shove I don't see trading Schneider as completely out of the question.

I do. Schneider was just re-signed. Just played over Luongo in the playoffs. He isn't going anywhere. Luongo understands this, and this is why the "it's time to move on" comment came out. He's accepted the fact that Schneider is now in VAN's current and future plans.

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12-07-2012, 09:09 PM
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Halak, after singlehandedly almost leading the Habs to the promiseland, was younger, and was only able to fetch Lars Eller. Why would you think Luongo deserves substantially more.


Luongo's record is much stronger, and more consistent. Multiple Vezina nominations should clue you into that. These goalies are not of the same calibre.

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12-07-2012, 09:12 PM
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Luongo's record is much stronger, and more consistent. Multiple Vezina nominations should clue you into that. These goalies are not of the same calibre.
Halak also didn't have one of the worst contracts in the league. I'd say the returns will be similar

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12-07-2012, 09:15 PM
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I do. Schneider was just re-signed. Just played over Luongo in the playoffs. He isn't going anywhere. Luongo understands this, and this is why the "it's time to move on" comment came out. He's accepted the fact that Schneider is now in VAN's current and future plans.
By the start of next season, if Gillis hasn't found someone willing to meet his asking price, Schneider will have been signed for over a year. "It's time to move on" is hardly a binding statement to leave. In fact, if the difference in return between Schneider and Luongo was significant enough, I would much prefer we deal Schneider.

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12-07-2012, 09:18 PM
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Halak also had only played 101 regular season games...

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12-07-2012, 09:20 PM
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Halak also didn't have one of the worst contracts in the league. I'd say the returns will be similar


Neither does Luongo. In fact, he has one of the best. So much so that they are being attacked by the owners in CBA talks. So he should get more by comparison.



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By the start of next season, if Gillis hasn't found someone willing to meet his asking price, Schneider will have been signed for over a year. "It's time to move on" is hardly a binding statement to leave. In fact, if the difference in return between Schneider and Luongo was significant enough, I would much prefer we deal Schneider.


I will bet you Schneider won't move, ok? How much you want to wager on it. PM me and we will work out payment and mailing addresses.



There is _no_ way, Schneider moves now, barring Schneider himself demanding a trade.

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12-07-2012, 09:24 PM
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Please read my earlier post, perhaps you missed it, when I said that this is a "what have you done for me lately league." Please don't give me stats from 5 years ago. I guess, according to you, AO is the best player in the league.
And I guess according to you, Matt Moulson is better than Ovechkin now? At least he would be if you were consistent in applying that Eddie Murphy Raw logic.

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12-07-2012, 09:26 PM
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Most of us think he will get us into the playoffs, but we worry about the subtraction of paying for him. The Lupuls/Kuleman/Bozak talks all hurt our offense, and in Kuleman's case our defense.

In theory we are going to be a parenial contender when our young guys and prospects step up and can get a playoff spot. Yet to any Leaf fan we are more than just Roberto Luongo away from being a contender. So who is truly expendable ?

Certainly not our 1rst round picks until we get a center (even if traded to do so). Lupul ? Maybe but his production with Kessel is tasty.
Kuleman , our best defensive forward who can score ?
JVR no, Kadri no, Rielly no, Finn no.

Grabovski ? I think he is long term but short term that would hurt, to me still doable but many Leaf fans disagree..

Bozak, ok, but he isn't enough. CMac, yes, but he is not greatly valued. Prospects like Blacker and Percy, ok. A goalie prospect maybe. Komi, sure, Lombardi, sure, Connolly if we keep Bozak. Any pick not our first for however many years, ok.

So its not that we don't wan't Luongo, it's that we can only pay so much without a great step backward and many of the pieces we could trade arent especially of value to a stacked team like Vancouver.

I think the only way a trade can work between the two is if Gillis will take quantity of 2nd/3rd line talent forwards, and second tier prospects like Blacker and Percy (though he is pretty good) and other picks not a first rounder. If not I don't see a trade happening.
You have to give to get.

Let me break down the trade proposal a few pages back that a lot of people liked. I believe it was Luongo for:

Kadri
Frattin
Finn
Bozak

Kadri - this is the most valuable asset coming to the Canucks in this deal. He is one of the Leafs top forward prospects, understandable, but the Leafs have one of the best odds of getting Mackinnon if we don't have a season this year. And really, I don't see much of a spot for Kadri on the Leafs. He isn't good enough (in my opinion) to be a #1C and Grabovski has the #2C spot locked down. I guess he could convert to wing, but I'm not sure how that would work.

Frattin - he is a decent player who throws the body around and I understand that Burke values him a fair bit. But how many 2nd/3rd line tweeners do the Leafs already have? Quite a few. On the Canucks he would probably be an excellent fourth line guy/decent 3rd line winger.

Finn - solid defense prospect that was recently drafted. But last time I checked, the Leafs were looking pretty good on D. Phaneuf, Gardiner, Gunnarsson, Rielly to name a few. Seems expandable to me.

Bozak - soon to be UFA

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Old
12-07-2012, 09:31 PM
  #11
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I will bet you Schneider won't move, ok? How much you want to wager on it. PM me and we will work out payment and mailing addresses.


There is _no_ way, Schneider moves now, barring Schneider himself demanding a trade.
All I said is if no one meets Gillis' price, he will move Schneider instead of going with both. I think that it is far more likely someone does end up offering a deal he likes. But he is not going to be forced to trade him for something that does not help us, and I think he would, and should, deal Schneider if no such offer exists.

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12-07-2012, 09:37 PM
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You have to give to get.

Let me break down the trade proposal a few pages back that a lot of people liked. I believe it was Luongo for:

Kadri
Frattin
Finn
Bozak

Kadri - this is the most valuable asset coming to the Canucks in this deal. He is one of the Leafs top forward prospects, understandable, but the Leafs have one of the best odds of getting Mackinnon if we don't have a season this year. And really, I don't see much of a spot for Kadri on the Leafs. He isn't good enough (in my opinion) to be a #1C and Grabovski has the #2C spot locked down. I guess he could convert to wing, but I'm not sure how that would work.

Frattin - he is a decent player who throws the body around and I understand that Burke values him a fair bit. But how many 2nd/3rd line tweeners do the Leafs already have? Quite a few. On the Canucks he would probably be an excellent fourth line guy/decent 3rd line winger.

Finn - solid defense prospect that was recently drafted. But last time I checked, the Leafs were looking pretty good on D. Phaneuf, Gardiner, Gunnarsson, Rielly to name a few. Seems expandable to me.

Bozak - soon to be UFA
Alot of people liked it??? Maybe Vancouver fans. Leaf fans clearly wouldn't go near it.

How about you try peddling him elsewhere.

My offers have gone up and you still aren't happy. Greedy greedy fans.


Last edited by spiny norman: 12-07-2012 at 10:34 PM. Reason: not needed
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Old
12-07-2012, 09:40 PM
  #13
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All I said is if no one meets Gillis' price, he will move Schneider instead of going with both. I think that it is far more likely someone does end up offering a deal he likes. But he is not going to be forced to trade him for something that does not help us, and I think he would, and should, deal Schneider if no such offer exists.
Nah. The only way Schneider goes anywhere is if the season began, and he was given the reigns and he pooped the bed.Otherwise Luongo is long gone. MG will take the best of the underwhelming offers and he happy he got anything for Luongo at all with that horrific contract.

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12-07-2012, 09:42 PM
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Alot of people liked it??? Maybe Vancouver fans. Leaf fans clearly wouldn't go near it.

How about you try peddling him elsewhere.

My offers have gone up and you still aren't happy. Greedy greedy fans.
Sure. Have fun not trying to improve your team by filling it's biggest hole. Oh, and I'm sure Kessel's going to bolt too after the Leafs still haven't made the playoffs once his contract is up.


Last edited by spiny norman: 12-07-2012 at 10:34 PM. Reason: qep
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12-07-2012, 09:43 PM
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All I said is if no one meets Gillis' price, he will move Schneider instead of going with both. I think that it is far more likely someone does end up offering a deal he likes. But he is not going to be forced to trade him for something that does not help us, and I think he would, and should, deal Schneider if no such offer exists.


It does not matter what you think he would or should do. I'm saying unequivocally, he will not deal Schneider under any circumstances, before he deals Luongo. If you think otherwise, PM me and we'll work out a bet.



You really should drop the line of reasoning that has 0% percent chance of occurring, despite what you think would or should happen. It's a poor argument from the outset.

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12-07-2012, 09:44 PM
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Alot of people liked it??? Maybe Vancouver fans. Leaf fans clearly wouldn't go near it.

How about you try peddling him elsewhere.

My offers have gone up and you still aren't happy. Greedy greedy fans.
speak for your switch finn for blacker and this Leaf fan is all over it


Last edited by spiny norman: 12-07-2012 at 10:35 PM. Reason: qep
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12-07-2012, 09:44 PM
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Alot of people liked it??? Maybe Vancouver fans. Leaf fans clearly wouldn't go near it.

How about you try peddling him elsewhere.

My offers have gone up and you still aren't happy. Greedy greedy fans.


Your offers have been atrocious. I'm not surprised you aren't getting the agreement you seek.


Last edited by spiny norman: 12-07-2012 at 10:35 PM. Reason: qep
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12-07-2012, 09:47 PM
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It does not matter what you think he would or should do. I'm saying unequivocally, he will not deal Schneider under any circumstances, before he deals Luongo. If you think otherwise, PM me and we'll work out a bet.


You really should drop the line of reasoning that has 0% percent chance of occurring, despite what you think would or should happen. It's a poor argument from the outset.
Yeah, except if I think it has, say, a 10% chance of occurring I'm not going to put a bet on it.

If Gillis was offered, say, Lombardi + 2nd for Luongo, but Gardiner + Kadri for Schneider, and both offers don't improve before the start of next season, I think he would absolutely trade Schneider. He will not be forced to dump Luongo as long as he has Schneider as an alternate trading chip.

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12-07-2012, 09:49 PM
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Your offers have been atrocious. I'm not surprised you aren't getting the agreement you seek.
where have I seen something like this recently? hmmmm THATS RIGHT! the CBA

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12-07-2012, 09:52 PM
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speak for your switch finn for blacker and this Leaf fan is all over it
VAN adds a 3rd if TOR keeps Finn

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12-07-2012, 09:55 PM
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You have to give to get.

Let me break down the trade proposal a few pages back that a lot of people liked. I believe it was Luongo for:

Kadri
Frattin
Finn
Bozak

Kadri - this is the most valuable asset coming to the Canucks in this deal. He is one of the Leafs top forward prospects, understandable, but the Leafs have one of the best odds of getting Mackinnon if we don't have a season this year. And really, I don't see much of a spot for Kadri on the Leafs. He isn't good enough (in my opinion) to be a #1C and Grabovski has the #2C spot locked down. I guess he could convert to wing, but I'm not sure how that would work.

Frattin - he is a decent player who throws the body around and I understand that Burke values him a fair bit. But how many 2nd/3rd line tweeners do the Leafs already have? Quite a few. On the Canucks he would probably be an excellent fourth line guy/decent 3rd line winger.

Finn - solid defense prospect that was recently drafted. But last time I checked, the Leafs were looking pretty good on D. Phaneuf, Gardiner, Gunnarsson, Rielly to name a few. Seems expandable to me.

Bozak - soon to be UFA
If we threw in a first it would be more realistic, 5 pieces for one unreal contract.

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12-07-2012, 09:56 PM
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VAN adds a 3rd if TOR keeps Finn
i was very happy with the finn pick so i'd rather see blacker go

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12-07-2012, 09:56 PM
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It does not matter what you think he would or should do. I'm saying unequivocally, he will not deal Schneider under any circumstances, before he deals Luongo. If you think otherwise, PM me and we'll work out a bet.



You really should drop the line of reasoning that has 0% percent chance of occurring, despite what you think would or should happen. It's a poor argument from the outset.
saying there is 0% chance Schneids moves is ignorant. nothing is predictable, that being said i agree with you i highly doubt schneids moves.

and to the leafs fans not wanting Luongo, thats fine if YOU dont want him but Burke has expressed interest in him and Toronto is a likely destination IF Luongo is traded(hoping hes not traded this year atleast). you as fans have no barring on what pieces would be traded, so saying something like "Luongo wont fetch a 1st rounder" or "Luongo will get a capdump a medium prospect and a 3rd" is foolish. just because you want something to be true doesnt mean it will be, and criticizing people who offer more than YOU as a FAN would give up is idiotic.

now i hope luongo fetches something decent. my trade is Luongo for Bozak, Biggs/Percy and a 1st(2013 or 2014 doesnt matter)

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12-07-2012, 09:56 PM
  #24
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Who's better, Holzer or Blacker?

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12-07-2012, 09:58 PM
  #25
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Sure. Have fun not trying to improve your team by filling it's biggest hole. Oh, and I'm sure Kessel's going to bolt too after the Leafs still haven't made the playoffs once his contract is up.
Why do Vancouver fans think that Luongo is the only answer Toronto has? I'll tell ya. You recognize that the Leafs could be in the market for a goalie and you're all trying to talk up Luongo even though you all know you're screwed cause your stuck with him and his stupid contract. Go ahead, keep him. I give it a year, than you'll all be calling for both his head and MG's head. Luongo will become your scapegoat and MG, you'll curse his name for offer such a monumental mistake.

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