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Old
12-11-2012, 01:36 AM
  #776
y2kcanucks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
I feel like Bozak is an overachieving 3rd liner, and Connolly is an underperforming 1st/2nd line center.

I dont neccessary like Connolly, but like you said I would rather buy low on him than pay a premium on Bozak.

Ie I would rather have a package with Connolly as a throw in/cap dump than a package where Bozak is the key piece coming our way.
You buy low on a guy like Connolly by sending a 5th round pick for him. Sending Roberto Luongo for him is paying a higher price than he's ever been worth even in his top season.

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Old
12-11-2012, 01:50 AM
  #777
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Originally Posted by Beer Me View Post
Lupul, Bozak, Kessel, JVR, Grabovski, Kulemin, Frattin, Gardiner, Gunnarson, Phanuef, Biggs, Rielly, 1st Rounders

Mclement, Franson, Blacker, Finn, Percy, McKegg, Liles, Ross, Kadri

Connolly, MacArthur, Lombardi, Steckel, Komisarek, Colborne, Ashton, Komarov,

Red = Won't be traded for Luongo

Orange = Players they probably will trade

Green = Lets make a deal



The problem is that all the players Vancouver would want for Luongo are in the red text, so basically the leafs, at this point, don't have the excess of quality players required to get Luongo without putting themselves in a bad position for the future.
bozak goes in the orange or green he will NOT be the sticking point in fixing the hole in net

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12-11-2012, 01:54 AM
  #778
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
bozak goes in the orange or green he will NOT be the sticking point in fixing the hole in net
They will not move Bozak unless they find a replacement first. It's counter productive. What if they can't sign a free agent centre or Connolly does a miserable job trying to fill in...they won't make the playoffs and that is basically the reason why the leafs want Luongo in the first place.

If they trade Bozak, they would probably have to trade for another centre potentially causing more holes in the line up.

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12-11-2012, 02:25 AM
  #779
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They will not move Bozak unless they find a replacement first. It's counter productive. What if they can't sign a free agent centre or Connolly does a miserable job trying to fill in...they won't make the playoffs and that is basically the reason why the leafs want Luongo in the first place.

If they trade Bozak, they would probably have to trade for another centre potentially causing more holes in the line up.
I don't if you trade tyler bozak and you get Luongo you'll have a hard time convincing one of the free agent centers to come to Toronto. Free agents look at the Leafs and they see a team with a lot of solid parts already in place good coach, talented wingers in Kessel, Lupul. JVR, Macarthur, Kulemin,

talented offensive d in Phaneuf, gardiner, liles with Reilly and finn on the way. You add a top 10 goalie to that group and I think free agents start to see Toronto as a desired place to play.

Call me a crazy Leafs fan if you must but i've always felt the basis of a Very solid team was here we just needed a guy that can soldify our net. I feel that getting Luongo can do for the Leafs what the trade with the marlins did for the jays.

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12-11-2012, 02:35 AM
  #780
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Originally Posted by Beer Me View Post
Lupul, Bozak, Kessel, JVR, Grabovski, Kulemin, Frattin, Gardiner, Gunnarson, Phanuef, Biggs, Rielly, 1st Rounders

Mclement, Franson, Blacker, Finn, Percy, McKegg, Liles, Ross, Kadri

Connolly, MacArthur, Lombardi, Steckel, Komisarek, Colborne, Ashton, Komarov,

Red = Won't be traded for Luongo

Orange = Players they probably will trade

Green = Lets make a deal



The problem is that all the players Vancouver would want for Luongo are in the red text, so basically the leafs, at this point, don't have the excess of quality players required to get Luongo without putting themselves in a bad position for the future.
This is the way I see it using your system.

Kessel, Phaneuf, Rielly, Gardiner, Lupul, JVR, Grabovski, Gunnarsson, Kulemin

Bozak, Frattin, Kadri, Biggs, Liles, MacArthur, Reimer, Franson, Percy, Finn, 1st round picks

Connolly, Lombardi, McClement, Steckel, Brown, Komisarek, Colborne, Ashton, Blacker, Scrivens, Komarov, Holzer

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12-11-2012, 05:48 AM
  #781
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Then there is no deal, Gardiner, and (Reilly or JVR) has to be part of the deal to get Luongo.


If those are the players that Mike Gillis is demanding in a trade, then there will be no deal between Toronto and Vancouver, and the possible destination pool for Roberto dwindles even further.

Oddly enough, I'm most looking forward to the post trade reaction thread that will appear on the Vancouver board once Roberto is traded for a less than stellar return.

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12-11-2012, 06:10 AM
  #782
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If those are the players that Mike Gillis is demanding in a trade, then there will be no deal between Toronto and Vancouver, and the possible destination pool for Roberto dwindles even further.

Oddly enough, I'm most looking forward to the post trade reaction thread that will appear on the Vancouver board once Roberto is traded for a less than stellar return.
It will be interesting seeing Leaf fans 'suddenly realizing' that Loungo's contract isn't bad once the trade does go down.

I will also be awaiting for request for Burke to be fired on the Leaf's board for giving up too much for Luongo

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12-11-2012, 06:17 AM
  #783
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
It will be interesting seeing Leaf fans 'suddenly realizing' that Loungo's contract isn't bad once the trade does go down.

I will also be awaiting for request for Burke to be fired on the Leaf's board for giving up too much for Luongo
thats the interesting thing you will see that you will also see some VERY pissed off nuck fans. It doesn't matter how this ends a lot of fans on both sides will be pissed.

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12-11-2012, 09:01 AM
  #784
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1sts need to be in the red can't see one going
The longer this lockout goes (the shorter the season) i tend to agree. I don't want to risk a lottery pick in a dash for cash 48 or less game season. To many variables. We don't know how the coaching will change things, we don't know how JVR plays....Hell, at this point, we don't know who our starting 6 on defense are.

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12-11-2012, 09:06 AM
  #785
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Halak also had only played 101 regular season games...
I am an Oiler fan . I do not like the Canucks . You can not compare Halak to Lou . Halak played lights out for one playoff run , that is it . Lou has been good for years . His contract is too long ,his pay per year is good for a goalie of his caliber . I know people are going to come back and say he sucked in the playoffs . I say he played good , 3 shutouts . Where was the defence , where were the Sedins ?
I do think Lou gave up in a few games when Boston was up by 3 goals and no one on his team was helping . I would bet that him on The Oilers would make us a playoff team . He is that good

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12-11-2012, 09:11 AM
  #786
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
The longer this lockout goes (the shorter the season) i tend to agree. I don't want to risk a lottery pick in a dash for cash 48 or less game season. To many variables. We don't know how the coaching will change things, we don't know how JVR plays....Hell, at this point, we don't know who our starting 6 on defense are.
if lou is the goalie the last thing i worry about is the 1st being a lottery pick

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12-11-2012, 09:11 AM
  #787
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I am an Oiler fan . I do not like the Canucks . You can not compare Halak to Lou . Halak played lights out for one playoff run , that is it . Lou has been good for years . His contract is too long ,his pay per year is good for a goalie of his caliber . I know people are going to come back and say he sucked in the playoffs . I say he played good , 3 shutouts . Where was the defence , where were the Sedins ?
I do think Lou gave up in a few games when Boston was up by 3 goals and no one on his team was helping . I would bet that him on The Oilers would make us a playoff team . He is that good
Then it's time to follow that up wit a proposal. All they are looking for is a legit top 6 forward, your 1st round pick and a top prospect.

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12-11-2012, 09:15 AM
  #788
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if lou is the goalie the last thing i worry about is the 1st being a lottery pick
In a 70 game or more season, i'd agree, but if it's a 48 game or less, we can't afford a learning curve. We lose 5-8 in a row (which is normal for us) we're done.

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12-11-2012, 09:21 AM
  #789
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Then it's time to follow that up wit a proposal. All they are looking for is a legit top 6 forward, your 1st round pick and a top prospect.
Maybe ,but i still do not think we would win in the playoffs with him at this time . I think Lou gets us there , but we lack grid and a true number 1 D man . I was hoping for a season as i think we will suck for this year and start coming up fast after that . If we sucked we could take care of one of our big needs , A big physical # 2 center or a # 1 D man . It would cost us more to do a deal with the Canucks , hell they are not going to want to play against Lou that often with out a big over payment from us . We need our first rd picks to fill out our team still . Maybe if there was a season and we were sucking at the trade deal line we could do a package of PRV , Gagner and a couple of second rd picks we have

This is provided that we were going to have a high enough pick to take care of one of our needs , as I mention . We can then address the other throw FA

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Old
12-11-2012, 09:27 AM
  #790
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Maybe ,but i still do not think we would win in the playoffs with him at this time . I think Lou gets us there , but we lack grid and a true number 1 D man . I was hoping for a season as i think we will suck for this year and start coming up fast after that . If we sucked we could take care of one of our big needs , A big physical # 2 center or a # 1 D man . It would cost us more to do a deal with the Canucks , hell they are not going to want to play against Lou that often with out a big over payment from us . We need our first rd picks to fill out our team still . Maybe if there was a season and we were sucking at the trade deal line we could do a package of PRV , Gagner and a couple of second rd picks we have

This is provided that we were going to have a high enough pick to take care of one of our needs , as I mention . We can then address the other throw FA
And you have described us to a tee. A fringe playoff team with Luongo. Not a contender. That's the same reason it doesn't make sense to deal our 1st plus other top young pieces. I have agreed on a couple of proposals, but once they get extreme, i'm out.

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12-11-2012, 09:56 AM
  #791
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I am an Oiler fan . I do not like the Canucks . You can not compare Halak to Lou . Halak played lights out for one playoff run , that is it . Lou has been good for years . His contract is too long ,his pay per year is good for a goalie of his caliber . I know people are going to come back and say he sucked in the playoffs . I say he played good , 3 shutouts . Where was the defence , where were the Sedins ?
I do think Lou gave up in a few games when Boston was up by 3 goals and no one on his team was helping . I would bet that him on The Oilers would make us a playoff team . He is that good
Okay, but why would Vancouver trade Luongo to Edmonton? Why would Luongo waive his NTC to play in Edmonton? I don't see this having any opportunity to occur.

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12-11-2012, 10:00 AM
  #792
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And you have described us to a tee. A fringe playoff team with Luongo. Not a contender. That's the same reason it doesn't make sense to deal our 1st plus other top young pieces. I have agreed on a couple of proposals, but once they get extreme, i'm out.
I must disagree. The Leafs have a lot of good pieces (Very good defense; top forwards) they lack quality goaltending to match. With Luongo the Leafs would compete for the top 4 spots in the Easter Conference. Plus, they would have a good chance to go deep into the play-offs. I do believe your analysis of the quality of the Leafs' players only suggests the Canucks would not want any in trade.

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12-11-2012, 10:01 AM
  #793
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Okay, but why would Vancouver trade Luongo to Edmonton? Why would Luongo waive his NTC to play in Edmonton? I don't see this having any opportunity to occur.
We would trade him to Edmonton if we got what we needed. Lui would go as it was his favorite team growing up as a child as Fuhr was his favorite goalie... and as much as I hate to say it, they have what looks to be a very bright future.

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12-11-2012, 10:09 AM
  #794
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It will be interesting seeing Leaf fans 'suddenly realizing' that Loungo's contract isn't bad once the trade does go down.

I will also be awaiting for request for Burke to be fired on the Leaf's board for giving up too much for Luongo
It will be more like 'nucks fans overrating Bozak and Kadri once it happens.

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12-11-2012, 10:13 AM
  #795
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I must disagree. The Leafs have a lot of good pieces (Very good defense; top forwards) they lack quality goaltending to match. With Luongo the Leafs would compete for the top 4 spots in the Easter Conference. Plus, they would have a good chance to go deep into the play-offs. I do believe your analysis of the quality of the Leafs' players only suggests the Canucks would not want any in trade.
They don't, unless it's our top young guys our 1st line winger. And even Lupul needs our 1st added to him according to most.

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12-11-2012, 10:15 AM
  #796
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We would trade him to Edmonton if we got what we needed. Lui would go as it was his favorite team growing up as a child as Fuhr was his favorite goalie... and as much as I hate to say it, they have what looks to be a very bright future.
Thank you for the history lesson. I did not know Luongo was an Oilers (Fuhr) fan growing up. Still, I don't see that childhood love of the Oilers superseding his current love for his wife and children. However, if the impossible were to occur, the Canucks would insist on Eberle.

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12-11-2012, 10:17 AM
  #797
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Thank you for the history lesson. I did not know Luongo was an Oilers (Fuhr) fan growing up. Still, I don't see that childhood love of the Oilers superseding his current love for his wife and children. However, if the impossible were to occur, the Canucks would insist on Eberle.
If the Canucks were to insist on Jordan Eberle, Mike Gillis would get a quick dial tone in response.

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12-11-2012, 10:24 AM
  #798
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They don't, unless it's our top young guys our 1st line winger. And even Lupul needs our 1st added to him according to most.
I don't know what the Canucks would want in trade, but I could guess Gillis values many of the Leafs more than you do. Players can appear to be playing poorly, because their goalie never covers up for any of their mistakes. Luongo did this a lot in Vancouver, and would do the same in Toronto. His play, would build confidence in his teammates. Confident players, play much better than ones who lack it. If Luongo is traded to Toronto, fans will be shocked how much better the Leafs' players appear to playing with a true #1.

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12-11-2012, 10:34 AM
  #799
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If Luongo is traded to Toronto, fans will be shocked how much better the Leafs' players appear to playing with a true #1.
Big revelation right there. But all he would do is mask inefficiencies within the organization. Roberto won't be making any players better.

Roberto would certainly be a great netminder for Toronto for a year, maybe two. The issues begin when he begins his decline and then it's the Leafs stuck in the unenviable position of trying to unload an albatross contract.

The very nature of that situation and the tenuous position it will leave the team that acquires Roberto in means the Canucks can't be expecting any top prospects or even good prospects.

Show me an example in the past of a player that was Roberto's age, signed for another decade, and asked for a trade returning significant assets? It hasn't happened and Roberto certainly won't be setting a precedent in this instance.

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12-11-2012, 10:38 AM
  #800
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thats the interesting thing you will see that you will also see some VERY pissed off nuck fans. It doesn't matter how this ends a lot of fans on both sides will be pissed.
Why would Canucks fans be pissed? Even if we get a 5th for Luongo we'd still be considered contenders... The only way I'm pissed when the session starts is if it isn't this year.

If I was a Leafs fan that was desperate to see my team in the playoffs, and I know a few, I'd be happy with any deal where Luongo is moved for futures, even 3 unprotected firsts, and pissed if he goes any where else.

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