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NHL Lockout XXIV: Oi! Get your filthy hands off my desert!

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Old
12-08-2012, 08:50 AM
  #126
swimmer77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC24 View Post
Rimer posted it all from his interview, pure gold I might add.


http://www.nextsportstar.com/index.p...2012-part-two/

Interview starts 3:30 in.

Here are the tweets if you don't want to listen:

https://mobile.twitter.com/JoshRimerHockey/tweets
I hope the current crop of NHL players listened to that. I can't help to wonder how much Fehr could have negotiated off of that original October proposal and had the players playing by now and earning paychecks.

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12-08-2012, 08:53 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Awwufelloff View Post
Roenick Favoring the owners as well and considers himself a "player" guy as we would expect. He implies Fehr is the real problem in all of this when the players were ready to sign a deal and Fehr said to hold out for more. I am through with Fehr he needs to go, he was a horrible choice as a negotiator for this.
I don't believe the players brought him in to negotiate. IMO it's yet to be seen what his true intentions are but I believe he will go for the cap in the end. Just my gut feeling of course but he hasn't shown much by way of negotiating and every offer appears to be an attempt to delink the players from HRR. I don't think the majority of player will be better off for his involvement than they would have been with Kelly.

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Old
12-08-2012, 09:06 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Pyromaniac3 View Post
Looks like the star players may need to sign smaller deals?
A lower max salary would actually be a pretty good control to go along with a five year max to avoid those kinds of issues, but the stars/people who think they'll be stars will never go for it. Similar to how cranking up the revenue sharing is a non-starter for Montreal, etc.

The problems are pretty small and simple, but there's no way these negotiations will be nice to everyone.

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Old
12-08-2012, 09:12 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by SerenityRick View Post
Which is EXACTLY why that wouldn't happen, Backes....

Goodluck giving Crosby 10-12 million per year on a 5 year deal and making the playoffs.

Could GMs and teams do that? Sure.. but it's suicide. The short term gain you'd get from jersey sales and the like would be peanuts compared to the money lost when your team is now a bottom feeder for the next 5 years.

GMs and agents will now have to work together more closely to figure out what's a fair salary for a top end player without gimping the team he's on or joining.

This isn't basketball... having a couple star players will not make you a Stanley Cup favorite. You can't compare the two at all.
I dumbfounded that people haven't talked about reducing what a player can count against the teams cap. Surely 20% isn't sustainable.

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Old
12-08-2012, 09:15 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Some Other Flame View Post


He's not getting paid during a lockout. Neither is Bettman for that matter.

Look forward to how that the pro-owners fanboys spin that into a reason why Fehr's holding up negotiations.

*pop*
Neither are getting paid during the lockout. You really think they won't be fully compensated the moment signatures go on a new CBA?

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Old
12-08-2012, 09:16 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Bagel Bites View Post
On the other hand Dave Backes came out and said this recently about contract terms:

Backes explained: ďIf (Sidney) Crosby is an unrestricted free agent and signs a five-year deal for $8-12 million (per year), then everyone is slotted under there. If Crosby gets five years, Iím lucky if I get two. If heís making $12 million and doesnít take term to have security in exchange for lower numbers at the end, then his salary-cap hit is that high number and you end up with a basketball system where you have LeBron (James), (Dwyane) Wade and (Chris Bosh) making all the money. Hockey is not like that. You canít play five guys the whole game.Ē
IMO, Backes is right and wrong about this. He's right in that super star like Crosby will get paid no matter what. But regardless of the length of the contract, the middle guy always get screwed unless you really grew the game to a point where everyone gets paid. IMO, these 10+ years contract will end up biting guys like Backes in the butt down the road

For example, 10 years from now $15m of Minny cap space will go to Suter and Parise (at which point they are shadows of what they are now). Then Minny will actually have to dish out even more money to new stars in 10 years time. So in a sense, all these long term contract will get pileup. Teams will have so many obsolete players taking cap space in their book as well as dishing out even more money to top tier guys. Which leaves even less space for the middle guy

Of course I would imagine Backes not really caring much for what happen to contract situation 10 years from now....

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Old
12-08-2012, 09:27 AM
  #132
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People tend to forget that its 7 YEARS IF YOU ARE SIGNING WITH THE SAME TEAM.

There is already a loophole in the system as the player could ask to get resigned for 7 years and ask them to trade him to a club of his choice, this way he gets extra 2 years and the club could get something in return and not lose star players for nothing.

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12-08-2012, 09:27 AM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Jones View Post
The OP posts an interesting link to a story about Carrie Underwood and Mike Fisher. Poor people - they don't understand the difference between a lockout and house arrest.

Memo to Mike Fisher - you can leave Nashville and follow your wife around while she's on tour. I think that's allowed.

I also think they've invented something called an airplane - you can use that to go visit her wherever she's singing.

Wow.

Link: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/l...041/story.html

The wow here is how badly you missed what was being said in that article.

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Old
12-08-2012, 09:28 AM
  #134
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I have obviously been on the owners side... but I feel they can move a tiny bit on contracts. 7 year max... 8 for a team re-signing their own players. It's still near impossible to front/back load a contract for a 25-29 year old to circumvent the cap on a 7 year deal.

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Old
12-08-2012, 09:29 AM
  #135
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Question about the Draft. I see a lot of people saying that without a CBA there can't be a draft. The NFL was lockout out when they held their draft. There was a provision in the expired CBA that allowed them to lift the lockout for the draft weekend and conduct the draft as usual.

Are we sure that the NHL won't be able to hold a draft, or is there a provision that allows the draft to go on?

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Old
12-08-2012, 09:33 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by colchar View Post
The wow here is how badly you missed what was being said in that article.
What? That Mike can only work out in Nashville because other places (Like Edmonton and Calgary) don't have decent facilities? Or that he can't find his way to an airport and get to one of the cities where she's playing?

I see that Carrie has a stop in Des Moines for example - I think Mike can figure out a way to get there and they do have ice there as they have a couple of high end hockey teams (Tier One Elite Midget and USHL Juniors to name just two) who would probably love to have him share a skate and practice. Think of the PR potential for both Mike and Carrie.


Last edited by Mike Jones: 12-08-2012 at 09:44 AM.
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Old
12-08-2012, 09:39 AM
  #137
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that carrie underwood story is exactly why people are anti-player

poor carrie, people working 12 hours, 60 hour weeks, for 40-60K yearly, barely making enough to feed there kids and im suppose to feel sorry for a couple making tenths of millions every year

the level of selfishness and spoiledness is off the rails

so shes upset because he's at there mansion more than she is at the moment, poor baby, let the whole world feel sorry for a barbie girl who is "big" because she looks hot

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Old
12-08-2012, 09:45 AM
  #138
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Walsh and Roenick are going at it now

https://twitter.com/walsha/status/277437426945888256

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Old
12-08-2012, 09:45 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by frivolousz21 View Post
You need to take a 2 hour crash course in economics or just some critical thinking.


I do not mean that to be offensive in any way. But the NHL has been beyond generous. If they actually took a hard-line stance on keeping the business of the NHL good going forward they would go with 55/45 in their favor no less. Probably 60/40 would be better at this point.


Let's do the simple version of this.

NFL = 50/50 split = 11 billion = 5.5 billion each = 32 owners.
NHL = 50/50 split =3.3 billion = 1.65 billion each = 30 owners.


Get it?

the Owners need to stop the madness. Offer the players a 50/50 that drop's to 55/45 over a decade, fix revenue sharing, and all the little things. Then throw in big bonus money possibilities based on revenue so that cost certainty allows natural growth, not artificial.

Like milking so many fans for every dollar in the 5-15 or level revenue teams. With ticket prices going up and up and making Canadians pay insane money in smaller markets to "compete". It's a joke. Owners would gladly lower ticket prices big time as long as they make money or break even.


Who's profit's have gone up the last 10 years or so?


In 2005 players got 1.05 billion or so. They got 1.65-1.7 billion last year. They had their salaries on an annual basis go up by almost 700,000,000 MILLION DOLLARS BY 2011 IN TOTAL ALMOST 100 MILLION A YEAR IN INCREASED PROFIT, TAKE HOME, PAY CHECK, PROFIT(BEFORE TAXES) BUT STILL, WHAT THE HELL DO THEY HAVE TO COMPLAIN ABOUT.


How can any NHL player hate Uncle Gary's last deal that brought them that. While his owner's still lost money and more money as the player share kept increasing.


No Sir, Gary wasn't crying he was done with how stupid these players are. What other organization in the world of employee's 750 or so who gain 700 MILLION DOLLARS IN PROFITS IN 7-8 YEARS CRY WHEN YOU SAY YOU'RE SHARE IS BIT OUT OF PROPORTION WITH COST'S. SO YOU MIGHT MAKE 650 MILLION MORE THAN YOU DID 8 YEARS AGO FOR A YEAR OR TWO BUT BY BY 2014 YOU WILL BE BACK OVER THAT, BY 2018 AT A BILLION.
Most of the NHLPA doesn't care at all about the game of hockey. All they want to do is play to make as much as possible.

There is the odd Ryan Miller out there but for the most part the players have just been talking about all the money they give up.

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Old
12-08-2012, 09:48 AM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark11 View Post
that carrie underwood story is exactly why people are anti-player

poor carrie, people working 12 hours, 60 hour weeks, for 40-60K yearly, barely making enough to feed there kids and im suppose to feel sorry for a couple making tenths of millions every year

the level of selfishness and spoiledness is off the rails

so shes upset because he's at there mansion more than she is at the moment, poor baby, let the whole world feel sorry for a barbie girl who is "big" because she looks hot

I agree with all of this except the part where she is only big because she is hot..That girl can sing her face off. Must be tough having all those rich people problems

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Old
12-08-2012, 09:48 AM
  #141
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I like what the owners propose because I feel like it puts even MORE of an importance in drafting. It also may increase the number of trades. We've seen a decrease in trades over the last few seasons, or at least significant trades, because bigger market teams like the rangers, flyers etc. were finding more and more ways to circumvent the CBA in order to get what they wanted in free agency (Or attempt to at least). I think the number of trades could go up, as teams try and make space to keep their own star players, which could also increase parity and make teams more even.

Does anyone still have hope that we'll see nhl hockey this year? I'm seriously losing my mind.

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Old
12-08-2012, 09:50 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by CheerstoBeers View Post
I agree with all of this except the part where she is only big because she is hot..That girl can sing her face off. Must be tough having all those rich people problems
i never said she was a bad singer, but her looks play a role in it, you really think the way she looks plays no factor in his popularity

anyways thats not here or there, point i was making was there spoiled and selfish, in there own little bubble

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Old
12-08-2012, 09:51 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by SerenityRick View Post
Which is EXACTLY why that wouldn't happen, Backes....

Goodluck giving Crosby 10-12 million per year on a 5 year deal and making the playoffs.

Could GMs and teams do that? Sure.. but it's suicide. The short term gain you'd get from jersey sales and the like would be peanuts compared to the money lost when your team is now a bottom feeder for the next 5 years.

GMs and agents will now have to work together more closely to figure out what's a fair salary for a top end player without gimping the team he's on or joining.

This isn't basketball... having a couple star players will not make you a Stanley Cup favorite. You can't compare the two at all.
GMs and teams will be forced to be smarter and more efficient with their money which is great for financial health of the league as a whole. If a player is good enough to play he will get a contract for a lot of money simple as that

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Old
12-08-2012, 09:53 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
Question about the Draft. I see a lot of people saying that without a CBA there can't be a draft. The NFL was lockout out when they held their draft. There was a provision in the expired CBA that allowed them to lift the lockout for the draft weekend and conduct the draft as usual.

Are we sure that the NHL won't be able to hold a draft, or is there a provision that allows the draft to go on?
We're beyond impasse, so the NHL could lawfully implement their "last, best offer" which includes a draft. If there's decertification, they could still implement the draft but they're taking a bit more of a risk.

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Old
12-08-2012, 09:53 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by mark11 View Post
i never said she was a bad singer, but her looks play a role in it, you really think the way she looks plays no factor in his popularity

anyways thats not here or there, point i was making was there spoiled and selfish, in there own little bubble
I'm sure it plays a role in it but anyone who can sing like her would be and deserves to be famous imo

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Old
12-08-2012, 09:55 AM
  #146
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Bettman has botched this so badly that they will be writing books about if for decades to come. Especially when the NHL never reaches the $3 Billion mark in HRR again. LeBrun was going lightly when he said this was the biggest joke in the history of CBA negotiations. I don't think Bettman recovers from this. And he knows it which is why you saw him having a breakdown on the podium the other night.

1) The initial offer of 43%. That set the precendent. "This is our proposal, but don't take it seriously."

2) They come back with 50/50 and $211 million make whole. "This is the best we can do."

Oh really Gary?

3) PA sets $389 millionn make whole as Fehr plays Bettman by shooting for the higher end. Gary storms out.

PA waits.

4) Gary comes back with $300 million make whole. Leaks that he wants deal done by Friday. Leaks of 12/14 camp date with 12/22 start date.

Well then there's still time. PA shoots high again. Bettman has breakdown at the podium.

Does Gary give in once again or kill the sport? I'd bet he gives in again and so doesn't Fehr.

If Gary didn't start with the 43% offer than this we'd be playing now.

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Old
12-08-2012, 09:55 AM
  #147
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Allan Walsh has come off the worst in this and I'd hate to be associated with him.

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12-08-2012, 09:56 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by mark11 View Post
i never said she was a bad singer, but her looks play a role in it, you really think the way she looks plays no factor in his popularity

anyways thats not here or there, point i was making was there spoiled and selfish, in there own little bubble
I think the word people are looking for is "Package". There's no doubt she has talent but there are many like her who have never had the chance to make their mark. Just like hockey so much about show business is luck and timing.

The one hockey memory I have of Underwood is when she was watching a Sens game and Hillary Duff was also in the arena. The TV people spotted them and did a split screen. Hillary sees the camera and waves and has a good time with it. Underwood literally dives off her stool (Which was in a luxury suite) and hits the floor so that we can't see her.

To me that just said it all.

Re: A Walsh (I'm not sure how else to do that whole segue thing) - doesn't he have a friend or colleague or someone who can buy him a beer or coffee and nicely tell him his twitter material just isn't working and he's doing more harm than good?

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12-08-2012, 09:56 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by CheerstoBeers View Post
I'm sure it plays a role in it but anyone who can sing like her would be and deserves to be famous imo
ya she's so good she needed to win a reality show to get famous

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Old
12-08-2012, 09:56 AM
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SerenityRick View Post
exactly. I feel bad for them too.. probably only going to get 7 or 8 million a year instead of 10 or 11. It's gonna be rough for them.

Not only that, they'll have to keep their play up in order to sign a contract that's on par a paltry 5 years later!

Exactly, be a good player 5 years later and you'll get money. Job security? Be good at your job and you'll be gainfully employed

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