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Lockout IV: One likes to believe in the freedom of hockey (Moderated: see post #2)

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Old
12-14-2012, 12:20 PM
  #651
Ari91
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Isn't it incredibly easy to sound pleasing and popular when you're not employed by either side in the dispute and have made your career on being pleasing and popular?

And I'm a fan of his.
Yes, it's easy - it's called objectivity. He has no real stake in the situation and therefore it's easy for him (and many of us) to see where compromise should be and what should be given more consideration. Objectivity is good and it's a lack of objectivity that is the result of a lockout still going on in December. Yes, it's their business and their livelihood but is every fan going to appreciate and care about that? What the typical fans sees is a bunch of rich people fighting over billions of dollars that come out of the pockets of people that don't even make a fraction of what they make.

Not losing focus of the fans doesn't mean just settling for what either side puts on the table. Maybe coming together and saying 'look we're pissing off fans, we can't take them for granted, we've built this league and this sport to levels greater than ever before, let's not waste time playing against the clock and let's just put our best foot forward in getting a deal done'. Neither side has done that. Both sides have used time as their leverage at the expense of fans holding their breath just hoping for good news. If either side truly thought that there was a big issue with the fans returning, they wouldn't have used this strategy.

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12-14-2012, 12:31 PM
  #652
Lehner
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So if i wanna see hockey this year do I want or dont want disclaimer of interest?

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12-14-2012, 12:38 PM
  #653
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Originally Posted by Lehner View Post
So if i wanna see hockey this year do I want or dont want disclaimer of interest?
Hard to tell because it all depends on how the owners react. If the league means what they say, you aren't going to see hockey. If they don't want to risk it, they'll probably make the first move to reach middle ground (though with this bunch, I can't see the threat of decertification as a motivator for them to simply take the PA's offer as is).

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12-14-2012, 12:46 PM
  #654
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OK, help me out here. If a DOI is filed, does that do more than just essentially remove Fehr as the individual negotiating the CBA? If not, can the players form a committee or something to continue negotiating a CBA?

I understand they couldn't do that in the case of decertification, but that and DOI aren't the same thing, right?

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12-14-2012, 12:46 PM
  #655
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I am at the point where I wouldn't mind the lock-out lasting into next season. Crush the union and then not have them shutting down the game again. If they don't like the final deal go play in the Swiss League or KHL. They have tons of other choices if they don't want to play in the NHL with a system that benefits both them and the team owners.

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12-14-2012, 12:50 PM
  #656
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
Yes, it's easy - it's called objectivity. He has no real stake in the situation and therefore it's easy for him (and many of us) to see where compromise should be and what should be given more consideration.
I was not aware all 30 teams had disclosed all their financial information to you!

Could you scan it and post a link?!

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12-14-2012, 12:59 PM
  #657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
OK, help me out here. If a DOI is filed, does that do more than just essentially remove Fehr as the individual negotiating the CBA? If not, can the players form a committee or something to continue negotiating a CBA?

I understand they couldn't do that in the case of decertification, but that and DOI aren't the same thing, right?
If it looks like a union, acts like a union, and sounds like a union then it would most likely be viewed as a union.

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12-14-2012, 01:02 PM
  #658
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If it looks like a union, acts like a union, and sounds like a union then it would most likely be viewed as a union.
So the players could continue the labor negotiations themselves?

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12-14-2012, 01:13 PM
  #659
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
So the players could continue the labor negotiations themselves?
They could, yes, but if they're acting as a collective during negotiations any lawsuits they try to file would most likely be thrown out by the courts.

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12-14-2012, 01:14 PM
  #660
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DOC is essentially the same as decertification, just quicker. Used as a bargaining tactic it will likely lead to a cancelled season, but the season will be cancelled anyway so the point is pretty much moot.

I would like to see the Union go through with this though and not just pretend to. Send the league back to a free market system,it is so broken already anyway.

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12-14-2012, 01:19 PM
  #661
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Do The Players even have a Anti-Trust Case? I dont see them actually having a case

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12-14-2012, 01:22 PM
  #662
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Originally Posted by Tom ServoMST3K View Post
Do The Players even have a Anti-Trust Case? I dont see them actually having a case
Why not? The owners locked them out. Seems to me they conspired together at least on that. They are trying to artificially control salaries as a group. Isn't that what anti-trust is?

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12-14-2012, 01:25 PM
  #663
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I was not aware all 30 teams had disclosed all their financial information to you!

Could you scan it and post a link?!
What in the world are you talking about? Finding middle ground between 5 and 8 year contracts and possible leniance on variance requires knowing the financials of every single team? Yeah okay.

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12-14-2012, 02:05 PM
  #664
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Originally Posted by Lehner View Post
So if i wanna see hockey this year do I want or dont want disclaimer of interest?
I'd say no. It would end up in a protracted legal battle with the NHL likely winning. In the unlikely event the NHLPA prevailed, the NHL would be forced to restructure along the lines of the MLS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraser_..._League_Soccer

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12-14-2012, 02:06 PM
  #665
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Originally Posted by Lehner View Post
So if i wanna see hockey this year do I want or dont want disclaimer of interest?
dont want.

Disclaimer of interest = season cancelled

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12-14-2012, 02:12 PM
  #666
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Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
dont want.

Disclaimer of interest = season cancelled
That's not what happened for the NBA CBA talks

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12-14-2012, 02:16 PM
  #667
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DOI should change effectively nothing. The NHLPA will still represent the players if they meet with the owners and have the power to agree to a deal, it will just be unofficially. Do not overreact to the DOI. It has no teeth and is basically the players moving into the treehouse because they're mad at their parents. It's effect is basically a tactic to make the players seem like they're unified against taking the deal, in other words to try and bluff to the owners that if they don't cave, this thing is going into a shell until mid January. Right now the owners thing the players are cracking and splintered and about to cave. DOI is basically a "see lookz how serious we arez!!!" statement

What I hope is that it backfires by not passing, but I'm guessing they already know it will pass

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12-14-2012, 02:19 PM
  #668
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Originally Posted by Buffaloed View Post
I'd say no. It would end up in a protracted legal battle with the NHL likely winning. In the unlikely event the NHLPA prevailed, the NHL would be forced to restructure along the lines of the MLS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraser_..._League_Soccer
So you really think that the Leafs and the rest of the profitable clubs and owners would really go to that extent? I can't see them doing that at all if the PA won.

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Old
12-14-2012, 02:21 PM
  #669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffaloed View Post
I'd say no. It would end up in a protracted legal battle with the NHL likely winning. In the unlikely event the NHLPA prevailed, the NHL would be forced to restructure along the lines of the MLS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraser_..._League_Soccer
Not going to happen. MLS started as a single entity. A merger on the scale you're proposing would have to jump through a ton of legal hoops. The chance of it working is near zero.

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12-14-2012, 02:24 PM
  #670
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Once they make the DOI official, what if the league lifts the lockout? Couldn't this possibly expose a number of PA members?

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12-14-2012, 02:25 PM
  #671
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Originally Posted by Lehner View Post
So if i wanna see hockey this year do I want or dont want disclaimer of interest?
Probably a bad thing for hopes of a season. Can't see the season being cancelled with the distance the sides are apart. But Bettman can use this as an excuse.

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12-14-2012, 02:39 PM
  #672
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Originally Posted by Tom ServoMST3K View Post
Do The Players even have a Anti-Trust Case? I dont see them actually having a case
There is a case depending upon what the NHL does after the fact. Its not as simple as decertifying (or whatever they think they are doing now) and suing. You have to sue for some action, and you cannot sue for the previous actions as they were protected. They at least would have to be given some chance to reorganize themselves in a way that is not anti trust, such as dunping draft, salary caps, etc. They would also seek a ruling on the status of current contracts as many provisions of those contracts are covered in the CBA, with guarentees being the notable one.

It certainly would be interesting. And would not likely lead to hockey anytime soon.

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12-14-2012, 02:39 PM
  #673
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
Once they make the DOI official, what if the league lifts the lockout? Couldn't this possibly expose a number of PA members?
Excellent, I hope it happens.

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Old
12-14-2012, 02:41 PM
  #674
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
Once they make the DOI official, what if the league lifts the lockout? Couldn't this possibly expose a number of PA members?
Well what I was wondering if this could open the door for the NHL to, say, revert back to its original proposal (43% for players / 57% for owners) and open the door for anyone willing to play under that framework?

Probably not, it sounds too easy.

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12-14-2012, 02:53 PM
  #675
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Well what I was wondering if this could open the door for the NHL to, say, revert back to its original proposal (43% for players / 57% for owners) and open the door for anyone willing to play under that framework?

Probably not, it sounds too easy.
Yea, that would be dirty pool, and I'm sure it would piss off all the players. But the owners could possibly make a couple small retractions from the latest offer.

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