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Lockout Discussion Thread 4.0

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Old
12-19-2012, 09:25 AM
  #601
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
stars players such as Weber, who agreed to a contract with the Flyers ?
You realize he signed an offer sheet right? There's always the possibility of your current team matching that offer. If he really wanted to leave, you ask for a trade.
If you can't get one, you sign a short term deal until UFA years.

Bottom line, you have no idea who reached out to who. All we know is Weber is still a Preds.

Speculate what you will after, but that's all it is, a speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Yeah, I get that working on two things at once is difficult, but it's not like the Owners couldnt work on salaries WHILE doing other stuff to help the league grows.

Besides, the reason no plans to fix the other issues exists is probably cause they're thinking the same way you do: we'll do that later, that's another story

with that line of thinking, it's a miracle any of them managed to become billionnaires.
What are you babbling about. You think moving teams is like talking on the phone while writing a letter? Do you even realize how difficult it is to eliminate or move teams?
You think owners have one business? That their hockey team is all they have?
And it's not even about being capable of doing two things at once, it's about being organized.
Right now, there is no hockey, and won't be until they reach an agreement. Working on anything else is useless. Get this signed, and after focus on the other issues.
Doesn't mean they aren't getting the ball rolling, doesn't mean they aren't working on other stuff. But eliminating or moving a team won't happen during a lockout, and I don't think you can force or fire a team. I doubt it works that way buddy.
So you better come up with another idea.

Seriously dude, that was just lame..

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Old
12-19-2012, 09:27 AM
  #602
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Without sufficient revenue sharing you will always have one third or more of the teams losing money. There's no other way around it.
That is a ridiculous conclusion

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12-19-2012, 09:31 AM
  #603
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
huh, lose a year so they can lower salaries ?
So you have no solution.... trying to laugh off a serious question. I thought so.

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12-19-2012, 09:53 AM
  #604
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That is a ridiculous conclusion
Actually, I have to agree with DAChampion. If revenue sharing does not increase, there will be a higher probability that lower tier teams will remain such. Revenue sharing should be higher. DAChampion and others are comletely correct about that. Higher revenue sharing only improves the league, as a whole. It is a tough sell to the rich teams, but it is a necessity.

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Old
12-19-2012, 10:13 AM
  #605
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
exactly.

and the reason there's a lockout right now is because it seems that Owners likes to think lowering players salaries will fix everything... I mean, I dont see them working much on other aspects of the game/business.

if lowering salaries was just one piece of a "bigger plan", nobody would be against this lockout, and probably everyone would be on owners side.

But no, there's a lockout, they'll lower salaries, and then what ? wait for the CBA to be over and lower salaries some more ? woah! what a plan!



and that's exactly where the problem is, it doesnt really help the poor teams. Sure it's nice to save some $, but at the end of the day, they're (the poorest teams) still losing money, and the "solution" doesnt solve the empty seats problems at all, and it doesnt fix bad management, etc...
They need to do a lot of things. Frankly even reducing salaries to 50% is not enough as far as overall salaries. I think NHL players make way too much for what the NHL generates. In my opinion the league cannot afford paying them like the other leagues. Even the owners don't get that because they don't take it seriously enough, cause they have businesses in other places and having a team is a toy to them. The NHL business model just does not support it. The NHL players have been overpaid since the 90s. And grossly overpaid too.

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Old
12-19-2012, 10:14 AM
  #606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Actually, I have to agree with DAChampion. If revenue sharing does not increase, there will be a higher probability that lower tier teams will remain such. Revenue sharing should be higher. DAChampion and others are comletely correct about that. Higher revenue sharing only improves the league, as a whole. It is a tough sell to the rich teams, but it is a necessity.
Why would the very few who makes good profits give more ?

How about working on helping the poorest teams to increase revenues ?

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12-19-2012, 10:16 AM
  #607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
They need to do a lot of things. Frankly even reducing salaries to 50% is not enough as far as overall salaries. I think NHL players make way too much for what the NHL generates. In my opinion the league cannot afford paying them like the other leagues. Even the owners don't get that because they don't take it seriously enough, cause they have businesses in other places and having a team is a toy to them. The NHL business model just does not support it. The NHL players have been overpaid since the 90s. And grossly overpaid too.
You may want to tell that to owners who willingly give 100M+ contract with huge signing bonuses to the Weber, Parize or Suter of this world

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Old
12-19-2012, 10:22 AM
  #608
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
You may want to tell that to owners who willingly give 100M+ contract with huge signing bonuses to the Weber, Parize or Suter of this world
Exactly like I said in my post. Owners are blind to the real problems too. Neither of these players are worth that much. Especially in a team context like hockey. People are not going to fill the place because Weber is in town.

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12-19-2012, 10:23 AM
  #609
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You realize he signed an offer sheet right? There's always the possibility of your current team matching that offer. If he really wanted to leave, you ask for a trade.
If you can't get one, you sign a short term deal until UFA years.

Bottom line, you have no idea who reached out to who. All we know is Weber is still a Preds.

Speculate what you will after, but that's all it is, a speculation.


What are you babbling about. You think moving teams is like talking on the phone while writing a letter? Do you even realize how difficult it is to eliminate or move teams?
You think owners have one business? That their hockey team is all they have?
And it's not even about being capable of doing two things at once, it's about being organized.
Right now, there is no hockey, and won't be until they reach an agreement. Working on anything else is useless. Get this signed, and after focus on the other issues.
Doesn't mean they aren't getting the ball rolling, doesn't mean they aren't working on other stuff. But eliminating or moving a team won't happen during a lockout, and I don't think you can force or fire a team. I doubt it works that way buddy.
So you better come up with another idea.

Seriously dude, that was just lame..
what are you talking about, billionnaires having more than one business ? are you saying they cant afford marketing, fiscality, selling teams and all ? really...

huh... Organized... really... lol

working on what ? Isles and Devils have been in this league for over 30 years, newer teams like CLB, PHX and such have been for at least 15 years... guess they were too busy with their other businesses, right ?


No, what's lame is using every excuse in the world to justify mediocrity.

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Old
12-19-2012, 10:27 AM
  #610
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Exactly like I said in my post. Owners are blind to the real problems too. Neither of these players are worth that much. Especially in a team context like hockey. People are not going to fill the place because Weber is in town.
Some are worth that much, the OV, Crosby, Datsyuk (and maybe a few others), the other players arent.

Worst part in this is, these guys didnt sign with the richest teams, no, they're in NJ, Minny, Nashville.

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Old
12-19-2012, 11:14 AM
  #611
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Alot of bickering going on between players at the moment...even really close friends.
Even some players at the top who were pro lock-out ( strike ) have changed their mindset and want to start seeing pay checks.

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Old
12-19-2012, 11:24 AM
  #612
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Originally Posted by YourBuddy View Post
Alot of bickering going on between players at the moment...even really close friends.
Even some players at the top who were pro lock-out ( strike ) have changed their mindset and want to start seeing pay checks.
I'll be very curious to see the results of the DOI vote, if they get released publicly. One thing that's come to my attention is that players not currently under contract, that includes PK and this group, would not be included in an antitrust suit for lost salary during the lockout. I can't imagine they'll be too excited about the possibility of taking decertification all the way to it's conclusion. Although most of those players would stand to make a lot of money on the open market, whenever hockey started again.

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Old
12-19-2012, 12:48 PM
  #613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Actually, I have to agree with DAChampion. If revenue sharing does not increase, there will be a higher probability that lower tier teams will remain such. Revenue sharing should be higher. DAChampion and others are comletely correct about that. Higher revenue sharing only improves the league, as a whole. It is a tough sell to the rich teams, but it is a necessity.
What you are saying is that the only way a business model can work is if the high revenue teams share more money with the lower revenue teams. I respectfully disagree. All teams can make money if they can keep their expenses lower than their revenues.

Part of the problem in the last CBA was not only the high salary cap but also the high salary floor. It forced teams to spend money, sometimes on inferior players in order to reach that floor.

Another problem with revenue sharing is that it creates a disincentive for teams to develop an efficient operation. Why bust your butt marketing your team when you can simply collect a cheque from the Leafs or Habs.

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12-19-2012, 12:57 PM
  #614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Yeah, I get that working on two things at once is difficult, but it's not like the Owners couldnt work on salaries WHILE doing other stuff to help the league grows.

Besides, the reason no plans to fix the other issues exists is probably cause they're thinking the same way you do: we'll do that later, that's another story

with that line of thinking, it's a miracle any of them managed to become billionnaires.
I think you have overlooked the fact the the owners have been working on other things. The fact that revenues reached an all-time high is evidence of that. Yet you have chosen to ignore that completely.

And for all the criticism you have levelled at owners, you have not come up with one concrete idea to improve the economic situation the league now finds itself in. I am sure everyone would be open to an ingenious solution.

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Old
12-19-2012, 01:10 PM
  #615
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The weird thing about revenue sharing to me (high revenue versus low generating teams) is that not every team is equal in value. Molson paid $500 mil for their investment so they should expect higher profits. But I do understand why it's necessary for the health of 30 teams.

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12-19-2012, 01:15 PM
  #616
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Originally Posted by YourBuddy View Post
Alot of bickering going on between players at the moment...even really close friends.
Even some players at the top who were pro lock-out ( strike ) have changed their mindset and want to start seeing pay checks.
Which is why the solution right now, in my opinion, is replacement players.

I am quite sure most of them would immediately jump ship and just play. As in the NHLPA guys for the most part would turn their backs on the union. Not sure what that would mean contractually and everything though.

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Old
12-19-2012, 02:06 PM
  #617
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LOL, how's this for a plan:

1) Little to zero revenue sharing
2) 30 of 30 teams must be profitable.
3) No cost controls on anything except player salaries.

Yeah, that's going to work

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Old
12-19-2012, 02:08 PM
  #618
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Originally Posted by Whereabouts Unknown View Post
The weird thing about revenue sharing to me (high revenue versus low generating teams) is that not every team is equal in value. Molson paid $500 mil for their investment so they should expect higher profits. But I do understand why it's necessary for the health of 30 teams.
Nobody is proposing 100% revenue sharing.

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Old
12-19-2012, 02:41 PM
  #619
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
Which is why the solution right now, in my opinion, is replacement players.

I am quite sure most of them would immediately jump ship and just play. As in the NHLPA guys for the most part would turn their backs on the union. Not sure what that would mean contractually and everything though.
Maybe the players should get replacement arenas. With the amount of revenue that comes from television, radio, Centre Ice and merchandising the only reason I can see the players handing over suitcases of cash to arena holders is inertia.

Time to move on - Content is King.

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12-19-2012, 03:16 PM
  #620
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The damage is pretty much done. They have killed the Goose that laid the Golden eggs. And I am blaming both equally. Even if they agree on something and they can play a 48 game season, they won't recover all the fans nor the ads and products $. Many teams will declare bankruptcy before next September.

Too bad. At that chicken game, both sides just die.

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Old
12-19-2012, 03:26 PM
  #621
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
Which is why the solution right now, in my opinion, is replacement players.

I am quite sure most of them would immediately jump ship and just play. As in the NHLPA guys for the most part would turn their backs on the union. Not sure what that would mean contractually and everything though.
AFAIK hiring replacement players is only possible during a strike, not a lockout. They could start a new league, but I doubt players in a new league would unionize.

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Old
12-19-2012, 03:27 PM
  #622
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
The damage is pretty much done. They have killed the Goose that laid the Golden eggs. And I am blaming both equally. Even if they agree on something and they can play a 48 game season, they won't recover all the fans nor the ads and products $. Many teams will declare bankruptcy before next September.

Too bad. At that chicken game, both sides just die.
Good. All 30 teams voted for this course of action. That's the hill they wanted to die on and who says wishes don't come true.

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Old
12-19-2012, 04:49 PM
  #623
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
The damage is pretty much done. They have killed the Goose that laid the Golden eggs. And I am blaming both equally. Even if they agree on something and they can play a 48 game season, they won't recover all the fans nor the ads and products $. Many teams will declare bankruptcy before next September.

Too bad. At that chicken game, both sides just die.
Both sides deserve each other...this will set them back 2-3 yrs in revenue...proper thing...then and only then, will they get labour peace, when they stop taking the fans for granted....kinda like MLB, and we all know who was involved in those years of labour foolishness...

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Old
12-19-2012, 04:50 PM
  #624
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
I think you have overlooked the fact the the owners have been working on other things. The fact that revenues reached an all-time high is evidence of that. Yet you have chosen to ignore that completely.

And for all the criticism you have levelled at owners, you have not come up with one concrete idea to improve the economic situation the league now finds itself in. I am sure everyone would be open to an ingenious solution.
like what ?

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Old
12-19-2012, 05:07 PM
  #625
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I heard on the radio Martin Mcguire saying that Pat Brisson is trying to get the players and the owners on the negotiation table. Seems that the players are willing and the owners would be willing if they had the agenda of the meeting.

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