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Lockout Discussion Thread 4.0

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Old
12-20-2012, 03:51 AM
  #651
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
So your belief is that all NHL contracts are nullified when there is no CBA, and then the NHL and NHLPA agree to reinstate them when a new CBA is signed? I don't think you'll find anything to back that up. Let me try a different example to convince you: Nathan Beaulieu is currently playing in the AHL on a two-way NHL contract. Why? Because a lockout means the NHL ceases operations, it doesn't mean contracts no longer exist during that time. Here's another example that I don't believe can be reconciled with your theory: injured players are still being payed, their contracts are being honored during the lockout.
not what I'm saying.

not what I'm saying either.

it's not a theory, it's common sense, there's only two possibility, there's a NHLPA and every player is part of it or there isnt, no way a few would do without while the majority does.

And I dont care for exceptions such as Schulz or Wheeler, cause that's what they are, exceptions.

really, I have no clue what you're arguing about anymore, and I'm not sure you do either.

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Old
12-20-2012, 05:20 AM
  #652
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
not what I'm saying.

not what I'm saying either.

it's not a theory, it's common sense, there's only two possibility, there's a NHLPA and every player is part of it or there isnt, no way a few would do without while the majority does.

And I dont care for exceptions such as Schulz or Wheeler, cause that's what they are, exceptions.

really, I have no clue what you're arguing about anymore, and I'm not sure you do either.
There's not much to discuss as we've covered all the bases in these four threads and counting.

Bottom line is a few ideologues on the owners' committee are going to cancel the season because they don't want to extend an olive branch to the players. Players and owners alike are going to lose money. All they had to do was offer 100% makewhole and we could have a 48 game season, but that seems unlikely. They're more focused on breaking the union than growing the game.

Overtime, these threads will become as intellectually sterile as other things as we've all covered all the bases and no new material comes in. How about Desharnais vs Eller vs Plekanec? Any new thoughts? lol.


Last edited by DAChampion: 12-20-2012 at 05:27 AM.
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Old
12-20-2012, 06:31 AM
  #653
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If there is a season and we suck, do you guys think we should try selling players like Cole, Gionta, Markov, Bourque, etc.. for draft picks or young prospects so we can do a proper rebuild? It's the first time since I have been watching the Habs that I see a future for this team but it can only be achieved if the GM makes good decisions. Trevor Timmins is a G and with all our draft picks and the other ones we could get I'm sure he could draft some good talent.

Also, if there's a season and we are one of the worst teams, would you be in favour of bringing back Dandenault to recreate the Dandouillon pairing so we can tank like pros. We could also resign Campoli and make him play with Weber.

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12-20-2012, 07:43 AM
  #654
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
I have never read anything close to this, anywhere. So the union representing Eric Staal and Patrice Bergeron "decided" to keep them on ELC's rather than test the open market? I think this would have made the news somewhere.
Yes they basically did. ELCs are part of the CBA. If you sign the CBA as a collective in which you are member of then you are agreeing to it. I can't explain this in more simple terms. Bergeron and Staal being members of a single entity representing them means the entity is deciding in part for them period. That's what Labor laws dictate.

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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
So your belief is that all NHL contracts are nullified when there is no CBA, and then the NHL and NHLPA agree to reinstate them when a new CBA is signed? I don't think you'll find anything to back that up. Let me try a different example to convince you: Nathan Beaulieu is currently playing in the AHL on a two-way NHL contract. Why? Because a lockout means the NHL ceases operations, it doesn't mean contracts no longer exist during that time. Here's another example that I don't believe can be reconciled with your theory: injured players are still being payed, their contracts are being honored during the lockout.
It's not a belief, it's what both parties are agreeing on when they enter CBA negotiations.

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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
That "gray zone" is not written anywhere. Nullifying $100M contracts is serious stuff, not rules written on the fly.
Contracts aren't nullified/voided while you are negotiating their modification through ratifying a new CBA. At this point I think you'd need a lawyer to tell it to you in his own terms. I can't help you, you'll just have to watch the drama like everyone else


Last edited by vokiel: 12-20-2012 at 07:52 AM.
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Old
12-20-2012, 08:07 AM
  #655
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http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opi...?device=mobile

Seems like the players are doing just fine and Kane is wearing out his welcome in Winnipeg.

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12-20-2012, 08:17 AM
  #656
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opi...?device=mobile

Seems like the players are doing just fine and Kane is wearing out his welcome in Winnipeg.
what a ridiculous article...I don't understand why people are so upset about that picture?

If the Jets are dumb enough to trade Kane because of this, then I would hope they call the Habs to see if they're interested.

Is there some unwritten rule that if you're a hockey player, you're not allowed to have a personality or something?

Ridiculous

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Old
12-20-2012, 10:12 AM
  #657
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Another of a series of quotes from one of the Fehr lapdogs on our team:

http://www.journaldemontreal.com/201...oeur-de-gorges

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12-20-2012, 10:25 AM
  #658
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
Yes they basically did. ELCs are part of the CBA. If you sign the CBA as a collective in which you are member of then you are agreeing to it. I can't explain this in more simple terms. Bergeron and Staal being members of a single entity representing them means the entity is deciding in part for them period. That's what Labor laws dictate.

It's not a belief, it's what both parties are agreeing on when they enter CBA negotiations.

Contracts aren't nullified/voided while you are negotiating their modification through ratifying a new CBA.
At this point I think you'd need a lawyer to tell it to you in his own terms. I can't help you, you'll just have to watch the drama like everyone else
This is the point I was making! Contracts still exist when there is no CBA. That is all.

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Old
12-20-2012, 10:39 AM
  #659
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
what are you talking about, billionnaires having more than one business ? are you saying they cant afford marketing, fiscality, selling teams and all ? really...

huh... Organized... really... lol

working on what ? Isles and Devils have been in this league for over 30 years, newer teams like CLB, PHX and such have been for at least 15 years... guess they were too busy with their other businesses, right ?
Yes, other businesses. Not sure why you seem surprised by this.
Just google the list of owners and then wiki their names to see what other businesses they own.
Or simply think back of George Gillett, he owned various businesses in the food department. He also had a Nascar team had some point, was in talks with Saputo for a Mtl franchise in the MLSE, and Liverpool FC.
You think owners don't have other stuff on their plate? Really? Are you that naive?

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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
No, what's lame is using every excuse in the world to justify mediocrity.
Actually I never justified anything. You said you realized doing two things at once was difficult, but that the owners could work on fixing salaries and the CBA, and something else for the league. To which I responded, they also have other businesses to run. Basically the point was to say doing too many things at once isn't the smartest thing.
What the priority is right now is finding an agreement so hockey is back. No matter what they decide, some teams will keep losing money next season. It's not something you fix over night.
Also, I said they might be working on things right now. It's not like you and I are part of that small inner circle.

Just a little FYI, after all your criticism towards them, and bickering about how they aren't doing anything for the league, you still haven't given a realistic solution. All you came up with seem to be let's move or eliminate some teams. And by some you're going for a minimum of 6. Yea...that's gonna happen..

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Old
12-20-2012, 10:41 AM
  #660
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
what a ridiculous article...I don't understand why people are so upset about that picture?

If the Jets are dumb enough to trade Kane because of this, then I would hope they call the Habs to see if they're interested.

Is there some unwritten rule that if you're a hockey player, you're not allowed to have a personality or something?

Ridiculous
He's 21 and a millionaire, and seemingly likes to party. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, especially considering there's a freaking lockout going on.
Not everybody can be as boring as Crosby.

It's a good thing I never made the NHL, I would have been in so much trouble..

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Old
12-20-2012, 11:00 AM
  #661
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opi...?device=mobile

Seems like the players are doing just fine and Kane is wearing out his welcome in Winnipeg.
Sounds like a class A *********. Talk about lack of perspective and judgement posting that pic. Brutal and downright insulting to the people who actually lost their income because of this lockout.

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Old
12-20-2012, 11:20 AM
  #662
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
what a ridiculous article...I don't understand why people are so upset about that picture?

If the Jets are dumb enough to trade Kane because of this, then I would hope they call the Habs to see if they're interested.

Is there some unwritten rule that if you're a hockey player, you're not allowed to have a personality or something?

Ridiculous
You can't be posting pictures of cash stacks in Vegas! Will somebody please think about the poor NHL players who are locked out!

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Old
12-20-2012, 11:26 AM
  #663
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Sounds like a class A *********. Talk about lack of perspective and judgement posting that pic. Brutal and downright insulting to the people who actually lost their income because of this lockout.
Imagine a young adult being happy about winning big in Vegas...that's like, unheard of.

Burn him at the stake!

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Old
12-20-2012, 11:56 AM
  #664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opi...?device=mobile

Seems like the players are doing just fine and Kane is wearing out his welcome in Winnipeg.
IDK, my impression is that the writer tries to give him the benefit of the doubt every which way. This article doesn't seem to be so much about the incident itself as much as a string of incidents apparently that maybe some fans, teammates, etc are tired of seeing.

What cracks me up is that Kane is a teammate of Ron Hainsey. That's what I find more humorous than anything.

Should folks have taken exception the picture? Everyone has different circumstances so I wouldn't be surprised if he did offend some folks. But it works both ways, right? If Kane views it as a joke then I see nothing wrong with fans piling on with anti-player remarks atm. If anything it was just poor timing on the part of Kane. LOL

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Old
12-20-2012, 11:57 AM
  #665
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Imagine a young adult being happy about winning big in Vegas...that's like, unheard of.

Burn him at the stake!
If you can't wrap your head around why this might come off as slightly ostentatious (at the very least) given the current circumstances then there is nothing for me to say.

You say you don't understand why so many people would be upset at this. I don't understand how someone would not be right now if they are in any remote way following this 3 month long debacle.

What I also don't understand is why you feel the need to defend him and why you feel the need to call me out about being offended by that picture. If it doesn't bother you, why not just leave it at that instead of calling out people who are offended by it? Is it insecurity? Are you sure it's not bothering you?

Just odd.

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Old
12-20-2012, 12:06 PM
  #666
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Another of a series of quotes from one of the Fehr lapdogs on our team:

http://www.journaldemontreal.com/201...oeur-de-gorges
Well I can't read it but I can only imagine. Gorges is a sucker upper, brown noser if ever there was one. I wasn't crazy about his contract but since it's shortened up a little - well that soothes it over a bit.

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Old
12-20-2012, 12:40 PM
  #667
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
If you can't wrap your head around why this might come off as slightly ostentatious (at the very least) given the current circumstances then there is nothing for me to say.

You say you don't understand why so many people would be upset at this. I don't understand how someone would not be right now if they are in any remote way following this 3 month long debacle.

What I also don't understand is why you feel the need to defend him and why you feel the need to call me out about being offended by that picture. If it doesn't bother you, why not just leave it at that instead of calling out people who are offended by it? Is it insecurity? Are you sure it's not bothering you?

Just odd.
Maybe because he's not personally responsible for the lockout? maybe because he's basically a kid? maybe because he's partying and having a good time? maybe because every bitter hockey fan and our vulture media is looking for anything to sh** on and re-direct their anger caused by loss of their precious time-wasting hobby? Maybe because the social media is way overblown and taken a unnecessary importance in this world?

i don't know, but i can find gazillion reasons why some being upset about this is just plain wrong.

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12-20-2012, 12:55 PM
  #668
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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
Maybe because he's not personally responsible for the lockout? maybe because he's basically a kid? maybe because he's partying and having a good time? maybe because every bitter hockey fan and our vulture media is looking for anything to sh** on and re-direct their anger caused by loss of their precious time-wasting hobby? Maybe because the social media is way overblown and taken a unnecessary importance in this world?

i don't know, but i can find gazillion reasons why some being upset about this is just plain wrong.
Not wrong my friend. Because it's an opinion and a personal point of view. I find it disgusting, you don't. You're not wrong, i'm not wrong.

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12-20-2012, 12:57 PM
  #669
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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
Maybe because he's not personally responsible for the lockout? maybe because he's basically a kid? maybe because he's partying and having a good time? maybe because every bitter hockey fan and our vulture media is looking for anything to sh** on and re-direct their anger caused by loss of their precious time-wasting hobby? Maybe because the social media is way overblown and taken a unnecessary importance in this world?

i don't know, but i can find gazillion reasons why some being upset about this is just plain wrong.
What's wrong ?...

Taking a picture and posting it on ****ing Twitter.

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12-20-2012, 01:03 PM
  #670
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Another of a series of quotes from one of the Fehr lapdogs on our team:

http://www.journaldemontreal.com/201...oeur-de-gorges
Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
Well I can't read it but I can only imagine. Gorges is a sucker upper, brown noser if ever there was one. I wasn't crazy about his contract but since it's shortened up a little - well that soothes it over a bit.
Yeah he's such a hothead this Gorges guy. Screw him.

http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/josh-gorg...kout-1.1075763

Quote:
One of the aspects of the negotiating Gorges said has bothered him is the owners’, Bettman’s and NHL Deputy CommissionerBill Daly's attempt to separate the players from their leader NHLPA Executive Director Donald Fehr.

That will never happen, said Gorges.

“We hired him for a reason. (NHL player) Ron Hainsey said it best: We are not capable of closing billion-dollar deals. That's why we hired him. We're hockey players. That's his job. We won't do anything without him by our side.”
DAMN YOU LAPDOG, CANT YOU SEE UR JUST A PUPPER FOR HITL-- FEHR???/

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Old
12-20-2012, 02:22 PM
  #671
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If you can't wrap your head around why this might come off as slightly ostentatious (at the very least) given the current circumstances then there is nothing for me to say.

You say you don't understand why so many people would be upset at this. I don't understand how someone would not be right now if they are in any remote way following this 3 month long debacle.

What I also don't understand is why you feel the need to defend him and why you feel the need to call me out about being offended by that picture. If it doesn't bother you, why not just leave it at that instead of calling out people who are offended by it? Is it insecurity? Are you sure it's not bothering you?

Just odd.
Newsflash, every NHLer is rich or a millionaire. Showing stacks of cash is suppose to surprise anybody? Should they rip their clothes, buy a rusty Mazda 3 and pretend to be below the middle class?
Go on facebook or other social sites and see how many kids take ''cool'' pictures of themselves with cash. Kane is no different than them other than the fact he has a lot of it. Poor judgment? Sure. Who doesn't go through that in their late teens-early 20s?
No need to make it such a big deal.

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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
Not wrong my friend. Because it's an opinion and a personal point of view. I find it disgusting, you don't. You're not wrong, i'm not wrong.
Wrong? No. But overly sensitive, yea.

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12-20-2012, 02:25 PM
  #672
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Yeah he's such a hothead this Gorges guy. Screw him.

http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/josh-gorg...kout-1.1075763



DAMN YOU LAPDOG, CANT YOU SEE UR JUST A PUPPER FOR HITL-- FEHR???/
Not sure why you're mocking the poster..

Hainsey admits to not understand the complexity of the deals. Gorges agrees. They hired him so trust everything they say. If they don't understand the complexity, then how are they in a position to determine whether or not Fehr is actually doing the best thing?

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12-20-2012, 02:36 PM
  #673
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Newsflash, every NHLer is rich or a millionaire. Showing stacks of cash is suppose to surprise anybody? Should they rip their clothes, buy a rusty Mazda 3 and pretend to be below the middle class?
Go on facebook or other social sites and see how many kids take ''cool'' pictures of themselves with cash. Kane is no different than them other than the fact he has a lot of it. Poor judgment? Sure. Who doesn't go through that in their late teens-early 20s?
No need to make it such a big deal.



Wrong? No. But overly sensitive, yea.
Great. So we agree then.

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Old
12-20-2012, 02:40 PM
  #674
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Great. So we agree then.
Sure but writing an article about it is also poor judgment, and getting offended as an outsider is being ridiculously sensitive.

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Old
12-20-2012, 02:42 PM
  #675
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Sure but writing an article about it is also poor judgment, and getting offended as an outsider is being ridiculously sensitive.
that and being sensitive about such issues feeds the vultures to give such non important stories more importance.

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