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Leafs ranked 20th by Hockey's Future.

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Old
12-11-2012, 12:26 AM
  #226
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Smith was 3rd in scoring on an amazingly stacked team when Gardiner was 19. Gards scored an even PPG the next year with a fair bit less support.

But People should check out that team. http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...005802010.html
I count 6 NHL'ers atleast. That has to be close to a record for a US University team.

OK after a closer look Smith is better than I thought but what the hell were the Wings doing with a 1st round pick?
Sorry I went off memory....he was tied for second in points.....very good D man from that team.

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12-11-2012, 12:27 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Well we've both watched Hozler. Actually watching a rerun of him now.

HE is either going to be a bottom pairing PK d-man or he will go back to Europe. He needs no more time in the AHL.

Smith might deserve more credit than I gave him but he is no Lidstrom or anything.
Didn't mean to bold him, my mistake Holzer I think will be an NHLer. May be commonly sitting in the pressbox though as the 7th guy. I think he is someone that at least 1 team would always be willing to sign for depth though.

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12-11-2012, 12:33 AM
  #228
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Sorry I went off memory....he was tied for second in points.....very good D man from that team.
I was amazed at how many names I recognized on that team.

Heck an NHL team would be lucky to have Schultz, Gardiner, Smith and McDonagh as a top 4. They were all on that NCAA team.

Mind boggling. I don't know if I've seen a CHL team that had their top 4 D-men from one year all make the NHL. ( Well Schultz and Smith will)

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12-11-2012, 12:34 AM
  #229
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I think 7 points in 14 NHL games last year.....shows a lot of offensive ability for a rookie.....he is much better then you think!
It is decent (though he got PP time as well, and only 1 goal), but a statistically irrelevant sample size. And he is almost 24.


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12-11-2012, 12:39 AM
  #230
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Florida has been near the top for 10 years. Remember future stars like Weiss and Horton?
Two players the leafs could very much use? Very good NHL'ers. Not sure what your point is by bringing those two up.

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12-11-2012, 12:39 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
Most Leafs fans will ALWAYS think the team has elite prospects. Always!!!

I'm not saying prospect ranking sites are gospel or anything... but they're a very good benchmark.

I know as an undisputed fact that if HF and the Hockey News both ranked the leafs top 5 in prospects, Burke supporters would be citing this at any chance available. None of us can even fathom how often they would be saying it.

What it probably means is that our prospects are simply mediocre.
I don't think ANYBODY thinks we have good prospects other than leaf fans. Nobody. Just leaf fans. The same leaf fans that ALWAYS think we have good prospects.
That alone says everything we need to know...
hahahahaha!

so sad but so true.

especially that blurb about the rankings. It's true that if in some alternate reality the Leafs had reallly good prospects and were ranked high but scouting magazines and other places, all the homers would be out in full force sourcing them.

now its only cuz our prospects are so bad and ranked in the bottom half of the league (despite being one of THE WORST TEAMS IN THE LEAGUE FOR YEARS) that the homers say it doesn't matter.

Question to the homers:

If the Leafs were ranked 1st overall, would you really be in the thread saying that the rankings don't mean anything?

Honestly...

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12-11-2012, 12:40 AM
  #232
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Didn't mean to bold him, my mistake Holzer I think will be an NHLer. May be commonly sitting in the pressbox though as the 7th guy. I think he is someone that at least 1 team would always be willing to sign for depth though.
He is just that kind of D-man that if you go 5 games without noticing him he is doing his job. But he does lay some good hits.

Gunnar and Holzer would be a perfect 5-6 pairing. Ofcourse if we could have better I would want them.

But those guy would be responsible and above all else very easy on the cap hit.

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12-11-2012, 12:40 AM
  #233
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Two players the leafs could very much use? Very good NHL'ers. Not sure what your point is by bringing those two up.
The point is that while decent players, hardly the stars that were being predicted.

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12-11-2012, 12:41 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
If the Leafs were ranked 1st overall, would you really be in the thread saying that the rankings don't mean anything?
Yes.

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12-11-2012, 12:43 AM
  #235
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Horton would be our second best forward and Weiss would be our number one centre.

So yeah, maybe the problem isn't having good prospects but also who you add around the good prospects.

So far the Leafs haven't done either since their team is **** and the prospects too.

So we really have a lose-lose on our hands thanks to the idiot managers running the team. At least they fired Wilson. Probably the smartest thing theyve done yet.

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12-11-2012, 12:44 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
Yes.
At least you admit youre a homer.

But I dont believe you because youre not only a homer but dishonest.

Youd be in every thread claiming we have five Gretzkys and six Orrs in the prospect pool.

Based on what homers say, we only have one Orr/Coffey/Leetch right now. Dang!!!!

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12-11-2012, 12:54 AM
  #237
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hahahahaha!

so sad but so true.

especially that blurb about the rankings. It's true that if in some alternate reality the Leafs had reallly good prospects and were ranked high but scouting magazines and other places, all the homers would be out in full force sourcing them.

now its only cuz our prospects are so bad and ranked in the bottom half of the league (despite being one of THE WORST TEAMS IN THE LEAGUE FOR YEARS) that the homers say it doesn't matter.

Question to the homers:

If the Leafs were ranked 1st overall, would you really be in the thread saying that the rankings don't mean anything?

Honestly...
IF the rankings were as far off as these yes.

I'm not in here calling Kadri a 80pt NHL'er.

I'm saying he is putting up similar stats to Nyquist and yet the two are valued very differently.

Call me a homer if you want. You guys are all the same. Hung up on the Kessel trade and no answer to; Who has a better better resume and should replace Burke?

I don't agree with everything Burke has done, but the Kessel deal was a damn sight better than the Rask deal, Toskala deal or the Kurvers deal(look it up).

You guys want to start the revolving door in motion again. Where every 3 years a new GM comes in to "solve the problems" and can't do it because the team is such a cluster****, so he gets fired and the next guy tries to sell everything and rebuild again. We need stability. So before you come slagging on Burke again and calling for his head you need to have a replacement ready.

A qualified replacement. Applications for Craig Button and Doug MacLean will be laughed at and thrown back at you. God help you if you suggest Milbury. But it wouldn't surprise me.

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12-11-2012, 12:58 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
IF the rankings were as far off as these yes.

I'm not in here calling Kadri a 80pt NHL'er.

I'm saying he is putting up similar stats to Nyquist and yet the two are valued very differently.

Call me a homer if you want. You guys are all the same. Hung up on the Kessel trade and no answer to; Who has a better better resume and should replace Burke?

I don't agree with everything Burke has done, but the Kessel deal was a damn sight better than the Rask deal, Toskala deal or the Kurvers deal(look it up).

You guys want to start the revolving door in motion again. Where every 3 years a new GM comes in to "solve the problems" and can't do it because the team is such a cluster****, so he gets fired and the next guy tries to sell everything and rebuild again. We need stability. So before you come slagging on Burke again and calling for his head you need to have a replacement ready.

A qualified replacement. Applications for Craig Button and Doug MacLean will be laughed at and thrown back at you. God help you if you suggest Milbury. But it wouldn't surprise me.
Hard to say if the Kessel deal is that bad because the final chapter hasn't been written like the other trades. Kessel's still on our team and two of the players on Boston haven't played yet. It's TBD. Not looking good and probably wont be good move in the end but its speculation as of now.

Theres lots of good executives around the league. Lots and lots and lots. Chiarelli? Where did he come from? Out of no where. Im sure Larry Tannedbum has the money to find a really good upcoming executive with NEW AGE IDEAS and not DINOSAUR idiotic ideas and philosophjies that Nonis and Burke have.

You seem reasonable and probably mean well but we really need to start seeing something from this team.

Either winning or sick prospects. Can't sit on the fence and do neither like we've evidently been doing.

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12-11-2012, 01:02 AM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Horton would be our second best forward and Weiss would be our number one centre.

So yeah, maybe the problem isn't having good prospects but also who you add around the good prospects.

So far the Leafs haven't done either since their team is **** and the prospects too.

So we really have a lose-lose on our hands thanks to the idiot managers running the team. At least they fired Wilson. Probably the smartest thing theyve done yet.
I dunno about Horton being our #2 forward.

Lupul had a better year than Horton ever had.

Weiss would be our #1C. But he is a bottom 5 #1C.

Other than Phoenix, Toronto, Columbus and Florida would he be a #1 anywhere else?

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12-11-2012, 01:04 AM
  #240
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Horton would be our second best forward and Weiss would be our number one centre.
Wrong on both counts.

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12-11-2012, 01:05 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
He is just that kind of D-man that if you go 5 games without noticing him he is doing his job. But he does lay some good hits.

Gunnar and Holzer would be a perfect 5-6 pairing. Ofcourse if we could have better I would want them.

But those guy would be responsible and above all else very easy on the cap hit.
I'm sure Wilson could have made him look awful, like he has for our other defensive defensemen.

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12-11-2012, 01:05 AM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
At least you admit youre a homer.

But I dont believe you because youre not only a homer but dishonest.

Youd be in every thread claiming we have five Gretzkys and six Orrs in the prospect pool.

Based on what homers say, we only have one Orr/Coffey/Leetch right now. Dang!!!!
How does saying that rankings are pointless, regardless of the placement of the Leafs, make me a homer?

You're not even trying to make points anymore. You;re just saying things.


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12-11-2012, 01:09 AM
  #243
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I dunno about Horton being our #2 forward.

Lupul had a better year than Horton ever had.

Weiss would be our #1C. But he is a bottom 5 #1C.

Other than Phoenix, Toronto, Columbus and Florida would he be a #1 anywhere else?
Maybe NJ and maybe NYR depending on if they like Stepan at #1.

Maybe Dallas too.

But yeah I agree, he is not a number one on many teams but anything is better than a Bozak/Grabo/Connolly/Steckel/Colborne depth chart at center.

Lupul isn't as strong on the boards as Horton and would get his ass kicked by him too while putting up similar numbers.

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12-11-2012, 01:11 AM
  #244
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Hard to say if the Kessel deal is that bad because the final chapter hasn't been written like the other trades. Kessel's still on our team and two of the players on Boston haven't played yet. It's TBD. Not looking good and probably wont be good move in the end but its speculation as of now.

Theres lots of good executives around the league. Lots and lots and lots. Chiarelli? Where did he come from? Out of no where. Im sure Larry Tannedbum has the money to find a really good upcoming executive with NEW AGE IDEAS and not DINOSAUR idiotic ideas and philosophjies that Nonis and Burke have.

You seem reasonable and probably mean well but we really need to start seeing something from this team.

Either winning or sick prospects. Can't sit on the fence and do neither like we've evidently been doing.
The Kessel deal will never be as bad as the 3 trades I mentioned. If you want to cry look up the Kurvers deal.


Chiarelli was the Assistant GM in Ottawa. He didn't come from nowhere.

He had an inside track in luring Chara to Boston. Which has been a huge piece in the Bruins success.


Burke has already shown he can adapt. He has changed his 6 and 6 philosophy. I hate the idea that the 3rd line has to be a grunt line of checkers, but that is what Burke came to Toronto wanting to build. Being able to roll three solid offensively dangerous lines where atleast 2 of them are defensively responsible is the make-up of a champion. Burke has come out and said he has adjusted his 6 and 6 thought process.


Last edited by charliolemieux: 12-11-2012 at 01:21 AM.
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12-11-2012, 01:13 AM
  #245
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Maybe NJ and maybe NYR depending on if they like Stepan at #1.

Maybe Dallas too.

But yeah I agree, he is not a number one on many teams but anything is better than a Bozak/Grabo/Connolly/Steckel/Colborne depth chart at center.

Lupul isn't as strong on the boards as Horton and would get his ass kicked by him too while putting up similar numbers.
Zajac and Richards?

Roy would give Weiss a good run in Dallas.

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12-11-2012, 01:16 AM
  #246
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I'm sure Wilson could have made him look awful, like he has for our other defensive defensemen.
Ya well not making the forwards cross the defensive blueline will cause some issues for the guy who stay at home.

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12-11-2012, 01:16 AM
  #247
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The Kessel deal will never be as bad as the 3 trades I mentioned. If you want to cry look up the Kurvers deal.


Chiarelli was the Assistant GM in Ottawa. He didn't come from nowhere.

He had an inside track in luring Chara to Boston. Which has been a huge piece in the Bruins success.


Burke has already shown he can adapt. He has changed his 6 and 6 philosophy. I hate the idea that the 3rd line has to be a gruint line of checkers, but that is what Burke came to Toronto wanting to build. Being able to role three solid offensively dangerous lines where atleast 2 of them are defensively responsible is the make-up of a champion. Burke has come out and said he has adjusted his 6 and 6 thought process.
ya but you cant conclusively state that. not yet. its too early now. it doesn't look good but we cant just say it wont be as bad because we dont have all the results in. Kessel and the three prospects are young still. Boston won a CUp so there's that, but we even still have to wait for the finale.

Ya but you're telling me there isnt another assistant GM or director of player development or OHL GM or anyone that hasnt had a hand in a really great trade or assembly of a team? Ya right. See I dont give a **** that much about hockey managers so i dont know who id pick but Im sure tannedbum could hire someone to find someone.

You cant just forgive and forget in this business. A doctor cant just say "awww man, sorry for botching your surgery....ill do better next time". Hell no. Sports is all about results. If u dont get them, hit the road and let someone else have a try.

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12-11-2012, 01:18 AM
  #248
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IF the rankings were as far off as these yes.

I'm not in here calling Kadri a 80pt NHL'er.

I'm saying he is putting up similar stats to Nyquist and yet the two are valued very differently.

Call me a homer if you want. You guys are all the same. Hung up on the Kessel trade and no answer to; Who has a better better resume and should replace Burke?

I don't agree with everything Burke has done, but the Kessel deal was a damn sight better than the Rask deal, Toskala deal or the Kurvers deal(look it up).

You guys want to start the revolving door in motion again. Where every 3 years a new GM comes in to "solve the problems" and can't do it because the team is such a cluster****, so he gets fired and the next guy tries to sell everything and rebuild again. We need stability. So before you come slagging on Burke again and calling for his head you need to have a replacement ready.

A qualified replacement. Applications for Craig Button and Doug MacLean will be laughed at and thrown back at you. God help you if you suggest Milbury. But it wouldn't surprise me.
The problem is that you have probably watched the leaf prospects play. Maybe all the time. Maybe just sometimes.
But you've barely (if at all) seen the other players the leafs are being compared to.
You just blindly compared Kadri to Nyquist directly basing your assessment off of a couple of statistics. Nothing else. Just points.
All while HF and (especially) the hockey news have a much fairer and balanced assessment based on actual observation of all the players.

The truth is that you are biased. I think even you yourself are partially aware of that.

You think that Burke is good, which means that our prospects are good. You don't care what scouts at the hockey news thinks. Or HF. Or anybody else in the entire world for that matter.
Your bias is that unacceptably strong.
You "like" the leafs, which means you won't accept criticism of our GM, prospects, players, etc.

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12-11-2012, 01:19 AM
  #249
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Zajac and Richards?

Roy would give Weiss a good run in Dallas.
I like Weiss more than Roy personally.

Zajac and Weiss is close too.

Richards gets slotted a lot on the second line and Stepan plays with Gaborik though thats likely to change given how Nash is there now.

So no to NYR I guess.

But I see your point. He wouldnt be a great number one. But still a number one. Florida probably doesnt trade him either.

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12-11-2012, 01:21 AM
  #250
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Maybe NJ and maybe NYR depending on if they like Stepan at #1.

Maybe Dallas too.

But yeah I agree, he is not a number one on many teams but anything is better than a Bozak/Grabo/Connolly/Steckel/Colborne depth chart at center.

Lupul isn't as strong on the boards as Horton and would get his ass kicked by him too while putting up similar numbers.
LOL, you do realize who they signed last summer and for how much right?

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