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Leafs ranked 20th by Hockey's Future.

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12-10-2012, 10:25 PM
  #201
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
And this is why the rankings are garbage:
MOntreal ranked #2 overall in 2007:
Top Five Prospects: Carey Price (G), Andrei Kostitsyn (LW), Kyle Chipchura (C), Mikhail Grabovski (LW), David Fischer (D)

Even with Price how the hell is that group #2 in the League?
Hindsight: what a useful tool vs foresight...

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12-10-2012, 10:26 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
OK I give up.

Rielly sucks. Kadri is a bust. Frattin was an aberation. Gardiner is a myth and a mass halucination. JVR will never become a decent player. Kessel is an old man. All the young players on the Leafs and in the system are pure garbage. Happy?
Of the players you mentioned.....two are still prospects.....and both in my opinion are NHL players.. with Rielly being a elite prospect.

Gardiner is a very good player who looks like a top pairing D man. Frattin is a useful 3rd line player. JVR....has talent but is also not the player you think he is. He will have motivation to prove the Flyers wrong going for him....but I'm not sold on him as an elite player just yet.

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12-10-2012, 10:26 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
The key is, do we have an old team where we desperately need prospects now? No. We have a young team with many hitting their primes or close to it.

We added Rielly and Finn. We are stacked on defense for years to come.

We'll be adding another high draft pick next June.

Just because Gardiner isn't on the list anymore and that hurts our rankings mean nothing because we have him ion the Leafs and he's 22.

The rankings are bad news to a team like Calgary more.
Are you raising a white flag already?

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12-10-2012, 10:27 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
Except he won't be in Junior, because he was with his NHL team the entire year, and therefore is not a prospect.
The link MESS posted says 65 NHL games for a forward to no longer be a prospect. RNH played 62.

So is he a prospect or not?
Or is that criteria ignored if the player is deemed too good?

I would think that with RNH, Yak, and Schultz the Oilers would be easily #1 in the rankings.

I'm just looking for consistancy and equality in these rankings and I can't find any.

But I am going to have to listen to certain people trot these rankings out like they were gospel for the next year.

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12-10-2012, 10:28 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
OK I give up.

Rielly sucks. Kadri is a bust. Frattin was an aberation. Gardiner is a myth and a mass halucination. JVR will never become a decent player. Kessel is an old man. All the young players on the Leafs and in the system are pure garbage. Happy?
What you refuse to accept is that EVERY team has a great player or two like Reilly.
And EVERY team is absolutely full of players like Kadri, Frattin, Colborne, etc.

You "like" Burke, so you're trying VERY hard to convince yourself that he's doing a good job...
the problem is that there aren't any "facts" to support your opinion.

The frustrating thing is that most likely NOTHING can happen that will make you change your mind.
You "like" burke, so he's "good".
The end.

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12-10-2012, 10:29 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
It is hindsight but at the same time it shows how so many prospects don't turn out. That's why the rankings only mean so much and isn't worth getting so upset over.


Golden words from a sage (at least from time to time ).


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12-10-2012, 10:29 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
So we only count the picks traded away and ignore the ones we traded for ? Good system, Percy and Biggs say hi.
Percy and Biggs aren't Seguin and Hamilton, one of them says hi with a pretty nice ring on his finger

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12-10-2012, 10:34 PM
  #208
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Aside from the obvious #1C slot, the biggest thing we lack for our forward group is grit, size, net presence, etc. Our forward prospects should be able to fix that for the most part. It's not always about the individual strength of the players, but how they will fit into the big picture.
Ok.....we lack these qualities on our top 2 lines as well......and just who are the players we can slot in these spots. We have an abundance of 3/4 line prospects..... Ashton looks horrible....Colborne is having trouble finding a roster spot on the Marlie's right now.

I like Ross but he is not playing.....real hard to develop players when they are watching! Most of our AHL prospects are not playing much and that is an issue......we need to have them play if we are going to develop them.

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12-10-2012, 10:36 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Of the players you mentioned.....two are still prospects.....and both in my opinion are NHL players.. with Rielly being a elite prospect.

Gardiner is a very good player who looks like a top pairing D man. Frattin is a useful 3rd line player. JVR....has talent but is also not the player you think he is. He will have motivation to prove the Flyers wrong going for him....but I'm not sold on him as an elite player just yet.
I only called him a decent player. He should be top 6 but he might be the 5th or 6th best player out of those 6.

Glad you agree Rielly is an elite prospect. This is why I don't get how we add a player who 99% of the hockey world has come to agree, if he had been healthy he would have been in the mix for #1 overall. YEt we fall 2 places in the ranking.

If you can make sense out of this let me in on the secret.

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12-10-2012, 10:44 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
What you refuse to accept is that EVERY team has a great player or two like Reilly.
And EVERY team is absolutely full of players like Kadri, Frattin, Colborne, etc.

You "like" Burke, so you're trying VERY hard to convince yourself that he's doing a good job...
the problem is that there aren't any "facts" to support your opinion.

The frustrating thing is that most likely NOTHING can happen that will make you change your mind.
You "like" burke, so he's "good".
The end.
If by player you mean prospect, then no, your comment is false.

If you actually mean roster players, then yeah, but then so do we with Kessel.

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12-10-2012, 10:45 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
What you refuse to accept is that EVERY team has a great player or two like Reilly.
And EVERY team is absolutely full of players like Kadri, Frattin, Colborne, etc.

You "like" Burke, so you're trying VERY hard to convince yourself that he's doing a good job...
the problem is that there aren't any "facts" to support your opinion.

The frustrating thing is that most likely NOTHING can happen that will make you change your mind.
You "like" burke, so he's "good".
The end.


That is priceless.

Look we have Blacker who won hte fastest skater at the OHL all-star game, but he is no Rielly.

Even Gardiner as good as he is, is probably not as good as Rielly.

DET's best D prospect is Brendan Smith. I beg you to PLEASE make an argument was to why he is as good or better than Rielly. Pretty please with a cherry on top, tell me why Smith is better than Rielly.

I have been saying all along Nyquist is not much different than Kadri. But Nyquist must be a future allstar to get DET to 10th overall, while Kadri is a bust to drag TOR down to 20th.

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12-10-2012, 10:46 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
I'm just looking for consistancy and equality in these rankings and I can't find any.
You will never find that, which is why rankings are pointless.

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12-10-2012, 10:49 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
I only called him a decent player. He should be top 6 but he might be the 5th or 6th best player out of those 6.

Glad you agree Rielly is an elite prospect. This is why I don't get how we add a player who 99% of the hockey world has come to agree, if he had been healthy he would have been in the mix for #1 overall. YEt we fall 2 places in the ranking.

If you can make sense out of this let me in on the secret.
We lost both Gardiner and Frattin off our list. Colborne , Kadri and Blacker are not thought of as high as they were last year ( Blacker because of injury). Aulie was a top prospect last year he was a 7.0 B ....hate that trade! Those are a few reasons. We would have dropped further had we not drafted Flinn and Rielly.

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12-10-2012, 10:50 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by MakeTheIronSing View Post
Percy and Biggs aren't Seguin and Hamilton, one of them says hi with a pretty nice ring on his finger
Isn't it amazing how having Selke, Norris and Vezina winners in the lineup lead to successs.

Weird. Don't know why it happens.

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12-10-2012, 10:54 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
I have been saying all along Nyquist is not much different than Kadri. But Nyquist must be a future allstar to get DET to 10th overall, while Kadri is a bust to drag TOR down to 20th.
Decided to look up his stats since you keep bringing him up. I was caught up in other's hype over him, his stats are worse than I was expecting. Is he doing great for a 4th round pick, yes. Was it a good 4th round pick, I would say so since most 4th rounders don't do as well as he has, but he is still yet to make the NHL full time. As you said, a full year older. Stats very similar. And to boot small Kadri is bigger than Nyquist. Last time I take other peoples word on someone

Edit: Just so I'm clear, no I don't think Nyquist is a surefire NHLer as some may have suggested (whether it is here or elsewhere) and neither do I think that with Kadri.

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12-10-2012, 10:54 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Ok.....we lack these qualities on our top 2 lines as well......and just who are the players we can slot in these spots. We have an abundance of 3/4 line prospects..... Ashton looks horrible....Colborne is having trouble finding a roster spot on the Marlie's right now.
Right. Our top 6 could also use some love in that respect. Lupul does fine along the boards, and generating traffic in front of the net. I suspect it's not the primary role he feels comfortable playing, but I'm hoping JVR can do something similar for the 2nd line. Adding Kadri to the mix would bring some grit and net drive. It's still not as gritty as I'd like it to be, but not as bad as they have been for the past couple of seasons (assuming the pieces fall into place, of course).

Ashton is a long term project, and I don't expect him to make an impact in the NHL for the next 3+ years (if ever). Colborne, I have a lot more faith in, but he will still need at least a season or two in the minors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
I like Ross but he is not playing.....real hard to develop players when they are watching! Most of our AHL prospects are not playing much and that is an issue......we need to have them play if we are going to develop them.
It's an unfortunate side effect of the lockout. Eakins has to make tough decisions before every game.

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12-10-2012, 10:56 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
We lost both Gardiner and Frattin off our list. Colborne , Kadri and Blacker are not thought of as high as they were last year ( Blacker because of injury). Aulie was a top prospect last year he was a 7.0 B ....hate that trade! Those are a few reasons. We would have dropped further had we not drafted Flinn and Rielly.

FIne but how is Detroit ranked 10 when our top prospects for hte last 2 years have been better and the people ranking the Wings even admit they have zero goaltending depth?

IF it is a case of being NHL ready, we also have Holzer who has done all he can in the AHL and is ready for a spot on the bottom pairing in the NHL.

I looked a Tatar too. He is nothing special.

If you can make sense of these rankings please do.

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12-10-2012, 11:01 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
FIne but how is Detroit ranked 10 when our top prospects for hte last 2 years have been better and the people ranking the Wings even admit they have zero goaltending depth?

IF it is a case of being NHL ready, we also have Holzer who has done all he can in the AHL and is ready for a spot on the bottom pairing in the NHL.

I looked a Tatar too. He is nothing special.

If you can make sense of these rankings please do.
The people who ranked them.....like their depth over ours......Did you look at Smiths stats.....he was the Leading scorer on Gardiner's team....he is a player that is for sure!

As far as our goaltending goes.....we need more. Sparks looks like he may be a good one.....

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12-10-2012, 11:01 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Grant View Post
Decided to look up his stats since you keep bringing him up. I was caught up in other's hype over him, his stats are worse than I was expecting. Is he doing great for a 4th round pick, yes. Was it a good 4th round pick, I would say so since most 4th rounders don't do as well as he has, but he is still yet to make the NHL full time. As you said, a full year older. Stats very similar. And to boot small Kadri is bigger than Nyquist. Last time I take other peoples word on someone

Edit: Just so I'm clear, no I don't think Nyquist is a surefire NHLer as some may have suggested (whether it is here or elsewhere) and neither do I think that with Kadri.
Nyquist is damn near a carbon copy of Kadri, except he was drafted in the 4th round and apparently he is a future all-star.

Smith is even ranked higher. HE looks like a solid d-man but nothing special. Holzer might play as many minutes but have fewer points.

But our prospects suck and Detroit hits gold with every pick after the 2nd round.

People need to take a look at how many of our later round picks are in the NHL.

We might have more than DET. We just only have Kaberle to put up against Dats and Zets in terms of homeruns.

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12-10-2012, 11:04 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Nyquist is damn near a carbon copy of Kadri, except he was drafted in the 4th round and apparently he is a future all-star.

Smith is even ranked higher. HE looks like a solid d-man but nothing special. Holzer might play as many minutes but have fewer points.

But our prospects suck and Detroit hits gold with every pick after the 2nd round.

People need to take a look at how many of our later round picks are in the NHL.

We might have more than DET. We just only have Kaberle to put up against Dats and Zets in terms of homeruns.
I don't like to comment on defensive players I haven't seen so I won't here For defensemen I just feel you need to watch them play since they can do so many other little things other than points or minutes played. Forwards is a little easier to have an opinion on without seeing them play since almost all forwards score points and you can use that as a good indicator of their ability.

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12-10-2012, 11:13 PM
  #221
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I don't like to comment on defensive players I haven't seen so I won't here For defensemen I just feel you need to watch them play since they can do so many other little things other than points or minutes played. Forwards is a little easier to have an opinion on without seeing them play since almost all forwards score points and you can use that as a good indicator of their ability.
Smith is essentially all about scoring points, something he has not even excelled at on the AHL level, so it is much easier with him.

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12-10-2012, 11:15 PM
  #222
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Smith is essentially all about scoring points, something he has not even excelled at on the AHL level, so it is much easier with him.
LALALALALA I'm not listening LALALALALALA

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12-10-2012, 11:16 PM
  #223
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The people who ranked them.....like their depth over ours......Did you look at Smiths stats.....he was the Leading scorer on Gardiner's team....he is a player that is for sure!

As far as our goaltending goes.....we need more. Sparks looks like he may be a good one.....
Smith was 3rd in scoring on an amazingly stacked team when Gardiner was 19. Gards scored an even PPG the next year with a fair bit less support.

But People should check out that team. http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...005802010.html
I count 6 NHL'ers atleast. That has to be close to a record for a US University team.

OK after a closer look Smith is better than I thought but what the hell were the Wings doing with a 1st round pick?

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12-10-2012, 11:17 PM
  #224
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Smith is essentially all about scoring points, something he has not even excelled at on the AHL level, so it is much easier with him.
I think 7 points in 14 NHL games last year.....shows a lot of offensive ability for a rookie.....he is much better then you think!

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12-10-2012, 11:19 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by Grant View Post
I don't like to comment on defensive players I haven't seen so I won't here For defensemen I just feel you need to watch them play since they can do so many other little things other than points or minutes played. Forwards is a little easier to have an opinion on without seeing them play since almost all forwards score points and you can use that as a good indicator of their ability.
Well we've both watched Hozler. Actually watching a rerun of him now.

HE is either going to be a bottom pairing PK d-man or he will go back to Europe. He needs no more time in the AHL.

Smith might deserve more credit than I gave him but he is no Lidstrom or anything.

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