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Old
01-16-2013, 05:16 AM
  #626
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Someone above said Moulson and that is a fair comparison. We can only hope he will be a 3 time 30 goal scorer, but Moulson is pretty nondescript on the ice, like Kuhn.

Kuhn will do most of his damage from ten feet in and he will never wow anyone, except for with his shot. Like Moulson he has a knack for finding loose pucks and burying them and knows how to find space to get his shot off.

If Kuhn becomes a 30 goal guy I won't be shocked, if he is a career minor leaguer, same deal.
I actually use Moulson as a comp for Hanowski. Ugly skater, good hands and IMO his best asset is his hockey instinct.

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01-16-2013, 06:58 AM
  #627
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I'm going to respectfully disagree with all of you here about Kuhnhackl, and here's why:


1) It is very irresponsible for us to draw any type of medical conclusion about this situation without knowing if this is any kind of recurring injury/area of concern or weakness, or if this was just some freak, first time injury situation to his upper body. If it is the former, then there is cause for concern and could jeopardize his career. If it is the latter, however, then it's all in how hard he works off the ice in rehabbing it. Now that he's at the pro-level, with better medical & training staff around him and with higher stakes, if he can work as hard as guys like Malking, Galchenyuk, Rielly and others have done with their respective injuries (or even close to that), then he's got a chance to come back fully healthy next year -- and perhaps in better shape then he ever has been.


2) Point #2 being an extension of point #1: Kuhn's conditioning levels were never really that great because he never had to train much growing up playing hockey in Germany. If not being in peak condition/strength helped lead to his injury, then, again, it's possible he can return from this situation being stronger than ever before. So I'm going to suggest that just like Roszival & Straka sustained unrelated/non-repetitive freak injuries and everyone thought they were injury prone, there is (at least not yet) evidence to suggest this is the case with Kuhnhnack.


3) Kuhnhackl, between missing a handful of games with a "lower body" injury last year, as well as a 20 game suspension, never really got a chance to gel with his new team in Niagara, where he was relegated to 3rd line duty and not much PP time for most of last season. This is an unfortunate situation, despite the fact that he did spend the previous summer training with a local trainer for the first time. He absolutely had improved some elements of his game (his speed and strength, for example), though he still needed improvement in those areas. That is not surprising, but he'll get the chance to go further with an A-level trainer in the pros as opposed to a lesser person he was working with in the Windsor area. But the positive situation here is that (A) he did improve in some areas of the game, and (B) while the hit on Ryan Murphy was bad, at least it showed a willingness to be competitive and physical, so laziness is not an issue with this player.


4) Kuhnhackl, in Windsor, played and produced at a higher level than a guy like Kevin Veillieux ever did. And while KV may have had nice individual skills, he didn't have the overall offensive instincts and all-around game, playmaking and all-around abilities that Kunhackl has. In other words, Kuhn is a superior prospect than KV ever was, and yet we weren't ready to write him off until this, his 4th AHL season. And unlike KV, we're not even sure that Kuhn is actually "injury" prone, as opposed to just having some freak injuries and missing a lot of time to develop last year.


Make no mistake: Kuhn will have to work DAMN HARD to overcome whatever injury and show up in "the best shape of his life" next season. But if he can show that determination off the ice, believe me: his on-ice skills and hockey instincts are probably 2nd to Bennett among forwards in our organization, and he would again be in the conversation as being a legit NHL prospect. His shooting ability is 2nd to James Neal amongst wingers in our organization, and he has high hockey IQ in general. He can play LW or RW, and he is not out of place on the PK, while being great on the PP, and has great touch around the net from in close and isn't afraid to go there 5-on-5 or on the PP. Most importantly, he has the skills and IQ to play with elite players.


So IF, and that's a big IF, he works his ass off this summer, he has every opportunity to be a really productive player and put up big offensive numbers in WBS next season, and then compete for a job in the NHL the season after that. So provided he works hard, it's premature to write him off just yet, especially without knowing the medical details and prognosis of his injury.
Blah, blah, blah. Get real. The odds of a late 4th round pick every making the NHL, let along being a good top 6 players are almost nil. Sure it happens once in a great while, but the odds are very very low. Any reasonable person would assume that a guy like him won't make it and would be 95% of the time. So what is the point of going on has skills, he needs to work hard, blah, blah, blah.

Really it is amazing how people go on an minute detail about every single prospect despite that fact that history shows that their probability of success is near zip.

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01-16-2013, 07:08 AM
  #628
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Kuhnackl was slated to go in the first round and was the sixth/seventh european in the whole draft but dropped due to injury. Plus why are you basing his success on where he is drafted? Do you just look at the round then write off the player? Sure he has a long way to go but it is unfair to say he wont make it just cuase of where he was drafted

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01-16-2013, 07:11 AM
  #629
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Originally Posted by limite View Post
Blah, blah, blah. Get real. The odds of a late 4th round pick every making the NHL, let along being a good top 6 players are almost nil. Sure it happens once in a great while, but the odds are very very low. Any reasonable person would assume that a guy like him won't make it and would be 95% of the time. So what is the point of going on has skills, he needs to work hard, blah, blah, blah.

Really it is amazing how people go on an minute detail about every single prospect despite that fact that history shows that their probability of success is near zip.
Not saying Kuhnhackl will or will not make it, but this is an uneducated opinion. The entire draft is a crap shoot. It doesn't matter where a guy is drafted.

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01-16-2013, 07:14 AM
  #630
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I actually use Moulson as a comp for Hanowski. Ugly skater, good hands and IMO his best asset is his hockey instinct.
I've never seen Hanowski play.

I don't think Moulson is an ugly skater, just he isn't very explosive like Kuhn.

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01-16-2013, 07:21 AM
  #631
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I have seen Hanowski exactly 2 times in 4 years. Not a great skater by any stretch, but I think it may be passable for the NHL. What I think will make him or break him will purely be how he meshes with Geno, IMO. I don't see him as a good fit for Sid whatsoever, they play two totally different games.

I do think Hanowski has some offensive savvy, and we'll see how much of it when he turns pro. Scouts said he had a pro shot at 18, so that shouldn't be a problem. So if he develops his skating a bit more, and he can click with Geno, I think he could, at least, become a Ouellet type player for us.

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01-16-2013, 07:22 AM
  #632
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
I'm going to respectfully disagree with all of you here about Kuhnhackl, and here's why:


1) It is very irresponsible for us to draw any type of medical conclusion about this situation without knowing if this is any kind of recurring injury/area of concern or weakness, or if this was just some freak, first time injury situation to his upper body. If it is the former, then there is cause for concern and could jeopardize his career. If it is the latter, however, then it's all in how hard he works off the ice in rehabbing it. Now that he's at the pro-level, with better medical & training staff around him and with higher stakes, if he can work as hard as guys like Malking, Galchenyuk, Rielly and others have done with their respective injuries (or even close to that), then he's got a chance to come back fully healthy next year -- and perhaps in better shape then he ever has been.


2) Point #2 being an extension of point #1: Kuhn's conditioning levels were never really that great because he never had to train much growing up playing hockey in Germany. If not being in peak condition/strength helped lead to his injury, then, again, it's possible he can return from this situation being stronger than ever before. So I'm going to suggest that just like Roszival & Straka sustained unrelated/non-repetitive freak injuries and everyone thought they were injury prone, there is (at least not yet) evidence to suggest this is the case with Kuhnhnack.


3) Kuhnhackl, between missing a handful of games with a "lower body" injury last year, as well as a 20 game suspension, never really got a chance to gel with his new team in Niagara, where he was relegated to 3rd line duty and not much PP time for most of last season. This is an unfortunate situation, despite the fact that he did spend the previous summer training with a local trainer for the first time. He absolutely had improved some elements of his game (his speed and strength, for example), though he still needed improvement in those areas. That is not surprising, but he'll get the chance to go further with an A-level trainer in the pros as opposed to a lesser person he was working with in the Windsor area. But the positive situation here is that (A) he did improve in some areas of the game, and (B) while the hit on Ryan Murphy was bad, at least it showed a willingness to be competitive and physical, so laziness is not an issue with this player.


4) Kuhnhackl, in Windsor, played and produced at a higher level than a guy like Kevin Veillieux ever did. And while KV may have had nice individual skills, he didn't have the overall offensive instincts and all-around game, playmaking and all-around abilities that Kunhackl has. In other words, Kuhn is a superior prospect than KV ever was, and yet we weren't ready to write him off until this, his 4th AHL season. And unlike KV, we're not even sure that Kuhn is actually "injury" prone, as opposed to just having some freak injuries and missing a lot of time to develop last year.


Make no mistake: Kuhn will have to work DAMN HARD to overcome whatever injury and show up in "the best shape of his life" next season. But if he can show that determination off the ice, believe me: his on-ice skills and hockey instincts are probably 2nd to Bennett among forwards in our organization, and he would again be in the conversation as being a legit NHL prospect. His shooting ability is 2nd to James Neal amongst wingers in our organization, and he has high hockey IQ in general. He can play LW or RW, and he is not out of place on the PK, while being great on the PP, and has great touch around the net from in close and isn't afraid to go there 5-on-5 or on the PP. Most importantly, he has the skills and IQ to play with elite players.


So IF, and that's a big IF, he works his ass off this summer, he has every opportunity to be a really productive player and put up big offensive numbers in WBS next season, and then compete for a job in the NHL the season after that. So provided he works hard, it's premature to write him off just yet, especially without knowing the medical details and prognosis of his injury.
While it is true that our knowledge of his specific injury is limited, we know that shoulder injuries have a great propensity to be long-term chronic injuries in any sport, particularly hockey. Think back to how many players that were never the same after a major shoulder injury. I hope he fully recovers as well (certainly surgical techniques and rehab protocols have improved), but realistically this injury has lowered the chances he has to some degree to have a successful pro career.

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Old
01-16-2013, 09:31 AM
  #633
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Don't be dense. The issue is quality, not quantity. You want a top forward, you had better get him in the top half of the first round or your chances sink way down. Shero had his chance and blew and he probably won't get another.

I really don't understand why people feel so compelled to defend Shero. He's proven himself to be no better than an average GM. He was handed a bunch of star players and a #2 draft pick. It's not like he built the team and deserves the major credit for its success.
The next two years will begin to show us how well Shero has drafted.

I still maintain one of his best picks was Bort, but it takes a lot of time for young blueliners like him to make their mark. I've made no bones about the fact he could be a top four guy and at worst a third pairing shutdown player. Guys with his size and range, who can skate like that, are hard to find. Plucking him in the third could be a major coup.

This season some of Shero's early picks will have a chance to make their mark: Strait, Bort, Jeffrey.

By the end of next season, Despres, Morrow, and BB could begin to have an impact.

Tangradi and Doumoulin, while not draft picks, could still have an impact in the next two years as well. Since Shero is responsible for acquiring them, he obviously should get credit if they work out.

So by my count, at the end of next season, we should have no less than eight of Shero's young guys who could be in a position to help this team.

By then we should have a good feel if he did well or **** the bed.

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Old
01-16-2013, 10:03 AM
  #634
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
The next two years will begin to show us how well Shero has drafted.

I still maintain one of his best picks was Bort, but it takes a lot of time for young blueliners like him to make their mark. I've made no bones about the fact he could be a top four guy and at worst a third pairing shutdown player. Guys with his size and range, who can skate like that, are hard to find. Plucking him in the third could be a major coup.

This season some of Shero's early picks will have a chance to make their mark: Strait, Bort, Jeffrey.

By the end of next season, Despres, Morrow, and BB could begin to have an impact.

Tangradi and Doumoulin, while not draft picks, could still have an impact in the next two years as well. Since Shero is responsible for acquiring them, he obviously should get credit if they work out.

So by my count, at the end of next season, we should have no less than eight of Shero's young guys who could be in a position to help this team.

By then we should have a good feel if he did well or **** the bed.
Muzzin looks like a good pick as well. Not signing him on the other hand...

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01-16-2013, 11:40 AM
  #635
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3) Kuhnhackl, between missing a handful of games with a "lower body" injury last year, as well as a 20 game suspension, never really got a chance to gel with his new team in Niagara, where he was relegated to 3rd line duty and not much PP time for most of last season. This is an unfortunate situation, despite the fact that he did spend the previous summer training with a local trainer for the first time. He absolutely had improved some elements of his game (his speed and strength, for example), though he still needed improvement in those areas. That is not surprising, but he'll get the chance to go further with an A-level trainer in the pros as opposed to a lesser person he was working with in the Windsor area. But the positive situation here is that (A) he did improve in some areas of the game, and (B) while the hit on Ryan Murphy was bad, at least it showed a willingness to be competitive and physical, so laziness is not an issue with this player.
The bolded part is not true. I don't know how many IceDogs games you managed to catch after Kuhn was traded there, but in the dozen or so I caught he was on the top line with Freddie Hamilton and Ryan Strome. He wasn't used on the top PP unit, but he certainly was not relegated to 3rd line duties at even strength.

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01-16-2013, 11:52 AM
  #636
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While it is true that our knowledge of his specific injury is limited, we know that shoulder injuries have a great propensity to be long-term chronic injuries in any sport, particularly hockey. Think back to how many players that were never the same after a major shoulder injury. I hope he fully recovers as well (certainly surgical techniques and rehab protocols have improved), but realistically this injury has lowered the chances he has to some degree to have a successful pro career.

Yes, but at the same time, we don't need to look any further than Taylor Hall, who had shoulder surgery and has come back in 100% top shape. By the way, do we even know if it is a shoulder issue, and/or what type of shoulder issue it was?


Also, without mentioning names, I can tell you there is a legit pro sports doc who has worked with many of the Pens players and prospects (and others around the NHL and sporting world) who has taken or sent guys to a stem-cell specialist in Europe who has TOTALLY healed a lot of injuries that would otherwise be difficult or take more time to heal. So there are advances being made in this area, as you state. And just in general, I believe Kuhn has enough upside -- if he shows the dedication & worth ethic in his off-ice conditioning + training -- to make the investment in this player. He could be a real good, legitimate top-6 forward for us long-term.

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01-16-2013, 12:04 PM
  #637
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The bolded part is not true. I don't know how many IceDogs games you managed to catch after Kuhn was traded there, but in the dozen or so I caught he was on the top line with Freddie Hamilton and Ryan Strome. He wasn't used on the top PP unit, but he certainly was not relegated to 3rd line duties at even strength.

Well, it is at least half-true. Yes, there were many games where Kuhn spent some time on that line, but a lot of the times they double shifted the over-agers (of which they had many) on to that line, and or put out other players with man advantages (including when they were down a goal or pulled the goalie).


I know they don't keep ice-time stats in the OHL, but if they did, you would see that Kuhn had comparatively less ice-time than Strome & F. Hamilton, even at even strength. (I did watch every playoff game btw, and have stated here in the past that -- in part because their coach favoured the overagers, but also in general -- Kuhn was severly under-utilized and mis-used). And it wasn't because his play merited it, but rather simply because his coach favoured other players.


Also, in Niagara, Kuhn was never used on the PK, as he was in Windsor. So when you factor in all of these elements, including common lengthy periods where Kuhn may not see the ice for 5 to 7 minutes at a time, it was very, very difficult for him to get into the flow of the game, and be at his best.

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01-16-2013, 02:36 PM
  #638
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Matt Murray was named CHL goalie of the week after posting a 3-0-0-0 record with a goals-against-average of 1.33 and save percentage of .954.



http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/a...er-of-the-week

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01-16-2013, 02:39 PM
  #639
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Matt Murray was named CHL goalie of the week after posting a 3-0-0-0 record with a goals-against-average of 1.33 and save percentage of .954.



http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/a...er-of-the-week
Did the Greyhounds suddenly start playing defense this season? That is good news for Murray. He seems like he might be a decent goalie prospect.

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01-16-2013, 02:44 PM
  #640
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Matt Murray was named CHL goalie of the week after posting a 3-0-0-0 record with a goals-against-average of 1.33 and save percentage of .954.



http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/a...er-of-the-week
Good stuff, still getting bombarded with shots in SSM which is good

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01-16-2013, 02:48 PM
  #641
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SSM has completely tightened up defensively since their coaching change. Probably averaging like 15-20 shots against less per game since the change. They used to be a lock to give up 40, but lately it rarely gets to 30.

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01-16-2013, 02:52 PM
  #642
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SSM has completely tightened up defensively since their coaching change. Probably averaging like 15-20 shots against less per game since the change. They used to be a lock to give up 40, but lately it rarely gets to 30.
Thanks for the heads up, I followed Matt earlier in the year and I think in the 2 first months he had 40+ shots per game. didn't know about the changes but it's good to hear

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01-16-2013, 02:55 PM
  #643
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Muzzin looks like a good pick as well. Not signing him on the other hand...
He has had some struggles with the Monarchs from what I know. Got scratched a few times this season.

I forget the particulars of why they let his rights walk... Pens relinquished his rights and he signed with the Kings. Then he won the OHL's most outstanding blueliner award in his overage season. I believe he got caught up in a numbers game last season, so the Kings sent him down to Manchester... They had him on their playoff taxi squad though.

That's about all I recall. Not sure if he is in King's camp or not..?


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01-16-2013, 03:17 PM
  #644
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I thought it was a mistake to not sign Chad Johnson. Still feel that way, but at least now we have Vokoun and Zatkoff.

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01-16-2013, 06:25 PM
  #645
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Do people think we'll still have Veilleux in the coming months?

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01-16-2013, 06:27 PM
  #646
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Nope, he's done with the organisation.

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01-16-2013, 07:12 PM
  #647
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I thought it was a mistake to not sign Chad Johnson. Still feel that way, but at least now we have Vokoun and Zatkoff.
We traded Chad Johnson

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01-16-2013, 07:27 PM
  #648
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We traded Chad Johnson
That's true, but the Pens traded his rights. They never actually signed him after his outstanding senior season.

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01-16-2013, 07:30 PM
  #649
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That's true, but the Pens traded his rights. They never actually signed him after his outstanding senior season.
Because you can find goalies with outstanding college seasons as free agents every year?

Johnson was a free agent this summer anyways.

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01-16-2013, 07:31 PM
  #650
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Johnson burned pretty quickly though, he's been nothing at all spectacular the last 2 1/2 seasons. I don't think he's ever going to be more than an organizational third goaltender. He's not even his teams undisputed starter right now.

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