HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Pittsburgh Penguins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Winter Blunder: Cornerback Roulette

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-10-2012, 02:50 PM
  #276
penguins2946*
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 23,812
vCash: 500
Why can't the Pirates make any moves? Seriously. They need another bat, this year's team will be no different than last year's team. The only difference is that we have Martin instead of Barajas. I don't like our outfield, all we have is Cutch and Marte, and Marte isn't even that good yet. Snider isn't that good, and Tabata plain sucks.

penguins2946* is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 02:59 PM
  #277
Gooch
Registered User
 
Gooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Coeur d'Alene Idaho
Country: United States
Posts: 14,461
vCash: 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
Why can't the Pirates make any moves? Seriously. They need another bat, this year's team will be no different than last year's team. The only difference is that we have Martin instead of Barajas. I don't like our outfield, all we have is Cutch and Marte, and Marte isn't even that good yet. Snider isn't that good, and Tabata plain sucks.
I like snider and I don't want them getting a guy to block him from getting AB's. When I look at our lineup I don't see a clear no brainer candidate to get upgraded based on what's available on the market. Unless they're going to sign or trade for an impact type player I'd rather see them roll into spring training with what they have now. Rays are never afraid to let the young guys play, the last thing this team should do is bring on some mediocre journeyman filler to block the young players with.

Gooch is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 03:12 PM
  #278
penguins2946*
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 23,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
I like snider and I don't want them getting a guy to block him from getting AB's. When I look at our lineup I don't see a clear no brainer candidate to get upgraded based on what's available on the market. Unless they're going to sign or trade for an impact type player I'd rather see them roll into spring training with what they have now. Rays are never afraid to let the young guys play, the last thing this team should do is bring on some mediocre journeyman filler to block the young players with.
I'd much rather them trade for a long-term player, like Stanton on the Marlins (a player like Stanton, not Stanton. I'd rather keep Cole, Taillon and Marte). So a young outfielder that is already a good MLB player that will only get better. Yeah, we have Marte and Cutch, but that's only 2/3 of the outfield.

penguins2946* is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 04:06 PM
  #279
End of Line
Human After All
 
End of Line's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 21,542
vCash: 500
Like that Grilli is staying.

__________________

"I don't know what the stronger emotion would be, the joy of winning or the pain of losing"-Sidney Crosby.
End of Line is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 05:29 PM
  #280
LECROSKIN
Registered User
 
LECROSKIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: PLAYA'S CLUB
Country: United States
Posts: 306
vCash: 500
that means the Hammer is Audi here

LECROSKIN is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 06:14 PM
  #281
Big McLargehuge
Global Moderator
You Must Be Tired
 
Big McLargehuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: S. Pasadena, CA
Country: Iceland
Posts: 67,390
vCash: 2626
Quote:
Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
I'd much rather them trade for a long-term player, like Stanton on the Marlins (a player like Stanton, not Stanton. I'd rather keep Cole, Taillon and Marte). So a young outfielder that is already a good MLB player that will only get better. Yeah, we have Marte and Cutch, but that's only 2/3 of the outfield.
Well the problem is that a guy like Stanton is still going to cost one of our prized prospects. You don't get A-listers with a collage of B and C-listers. The Pirates have a ton of very good outfield prospects and a very intriguing guy in Snider who deserves his shot.

We're still a year away from 'legitimately' competing, so let's not go all-in when we still don't know exactly what it is with some of the guys we do have now. Outfield just isn't the position I'd be gunning for via trade right now. Not with Josh Bell, Gregory Polanco, and Barrett Barnes in the system. Odds are at some point the Pirates will be trading excess outfielders for help elsewhere...it just seems counterproductive to jump the gun there.

Bell probably will skip a year on B-A's top 100 list because he missed almost the entire season last year so he's already starting to get forgotten, but Polanco could be in the top 50 and Barnes is probably in honorable mention territory. The only other batting prospects that we have that are on those players level are middle infielders (SS Alen Hanson will be top 50 and 2B Dilson Herrera is poised for a breakout season...I jumped the gun with Hanson last year so that's given me the confidence to do the same with Herrera this year) and a low minors catcher (Wyatt Mathisen).

You can't count your chickens before they hatch...but when you're a team like the Pirates you can't afford to misstep either. Being too aggressive at the wrong time would be the perfect way to prevent a legitimate run from happening.


Per everyone on Twitter Grilli does return for $6.75 over two seasons. He turned down more money from the Blue Jays to stay.

__________________
“The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile, but that it is indifferent. If we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death, our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light.” - Stanley Kubrick

Last edited by Big McLargehuge: 12-10-2012 at 06:47 PM.
Big McLargehuge is online now  
Old
12-10-2012, 06:19 PM
  #282
OnMyOwn
Outlive
 
OnMyOwn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: State College
Country: United States
Posts: 12,047
vCash: 500
I think snider is good personally. I didn't see much wrong with him. Marte, Cutch, Snider looks decent to me.

Our big hole is SS as far as batting is concerned. I've actually liked the pirates moves this offseason. Got a skilled lefty in a trade, arguably the best FA catcher on the market, and kept grilli. Plus who knows what they get for hammer.

OnMyOwn is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 06:29 PM
  #283
Big McLargehuge
Global Moderator
You Must Be Tired
 
Big McLargehuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: S. Pasadena, CA
Country: Iceland
Posts: 67,390
vCash: 2626
Anyone expecting a flurry of activity from the Pirates this off-season was bound to be disappointed. I'm fairly happy with the moves so far...a lot of it will rest in what we're able to get for Hanrahan.

It just sucks that we couldn't realistically trade him at the deadline last year...you can't raise the white flag when you're right there in the hunt, but his value had to be double what it is today. Right now he's a ~$7 million closer who's a year away from free agency...we may be best off holding onto him for the first couple months of the season and waiting for another team to have closer issues...but I'm sure Nutting is putting the pressure on Huntington to get that contract off the books.

If what was floating around Twitter a couple weeks ago - that the Pirates asking price on Hammer was surprisingly low - the fact that he's still a Pirate today means he might be for a little while longer.


SS is a hole...but it's a hole that's shared by about half the teams in the league. There are just very few good hitting short stops that stay at the position in the Majors right now and almost none of them are on the market. Barmes's numbers went up to what he was expected to hit over the last half of the season after his putrid start...I'm fine letting him play out his contract as long as he's providing good defense at the position...we're not going to get anything better without raiding the top of the prospect pool. Best case scenario is that Barmes can give us a .250 average next year with good defense while Hanson makes quick work of AA and winds up in Indianapolis by August.


Last edited by Big McLargehuge: 12-10-2012 at 06:35 PM.
Big McLargehuge is online now  
Old
12-10-2012, 06:32 PM
  #284
OnMyOwn
Outlive
 
OnMyOwn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: State College
Country: United States
Posts: 12,047
vCash: 500
Maybe capuano from the dodgers in a deal around hammer. Wasn't that rumored a little while ago? At least that we were interested in him?

Could use one more SP.

OnMyOwn is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 06:38 PM
  #285
Big McLargehuge
Global Moderator
You Must Be Tired
 
Big McLargehuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: S. Pasadena, CA
Country: Iceland
Posts: 67,390
vCash: 2626
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnMyOwn View Post
Maybe capuano from the dodgers in a deal around hammer. Wasn't that rumored a little while ago? At least that we were interested in him?

Could use one more SP.
That was, and it's one that makes an odd bit of sense.

It's rare to see closers traded for guys older than them...actually it's almost unheard of, but I don't think any of us want Hanrahan dealt for a couple pitchers in the low minors, the usual return...getting a veteran starter would give our staff some solidity and depth. With Greinke and Ryu joining the Dodgers over the past couple days it would make sense for them to consider moving Capuano for bullpen help.

I'd hope the deal would be Hanrahan for Capuano plus a prospect...but I'm assuming it'd be Hanrahan for Capuano plus money...because the Dodgers sure as **** don't care about money anymore.

Big McLargehuge is online now  
Old
12-10-2012, 07:19 PM
  #286
bathroomSTAAL
The halcyon days
 
bathroomSTAAL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 13,200
vCash: 500
I'd be disappointed in a Hammer for Capuano trade. Feel like he could fetch more even if he's not necessarily worth it. (Closers tend to be overvalued.)

bathroomSTAAL is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 07:49 PM
  #287
DJ Spinoza
Registered User
 
DJ Spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 15,890
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
That was, and it's one that makes an odd bit of sense.

It's rare to see closers traded for guys older than them...actually it's almost unheard of, but I don't think any of us want Hanrahan dealt for a couple pitchers in the low minors, the usual return...getting a veteran starter would give our staff some solidity and depth. With Greinke and Ryu joining the Dodgers over the past couple days it would make sense for them to consider moving Capuano for bullpen help.

I'd hope the deal would be Hanrahan for Capuano plus a prospect...but I'm assuming it'd be Hanrahan for Capuano plus money...because the Dodgers sure as **** don't care about money anymore.
Yeah, when I first heard the Capuano rumor, I was pretty against it. But given the fact that Hanrahan is pretty much guaranteed to be gone, I'd be ok with some kind of deal, especially because Capuano would provide some solid depth/fill a need/immediately improve the team. With Grilli locked own, given the options, it makes a lot more sense now.

DJ Spinoza is online now  
Old
12-10-2012, 09:00 PM
  #288
Gooch
Registered User
 
Gooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Coeur d'Alene Idaho
Country: United States
Posts: 14,461
vCash: 692
I'd rather keep Hanrahan than get Capuano. If they're not going to get something significant for him then keep him and have a great back end of the bullpen. Trade him at the deadline when his value goes back up.

Gooch is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 10:06 PM
  #289
OnMyOwn
Outlive
 
OnMyOwn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: State College
Country: United States
Posts: 12,047
vCash: 500
They aren't gonna pay 7 mil for two pitchers that throw 2 innings combined, IMO. And that's not even every game.

Hammer is gone. If he's not before the season starts, ill be shocked.

OnMyOwn is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 10:18 PM
  #290
DJ Spinoza
Registered User
 
DJ Spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 15,890
vCash: 500
I think he also showed significant signs to be concerned with his future. If we're just talking immediate payoff, I think I'll always pick the starting pitcher.

DJ Spinoza is online now  
Old
12-10-2012, 10:19 PM
  #291
Big McLargehuge
Global Moderator
You Must Be Tired
 
Big McLargehuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: S. Pasadena, CA
Country: Iceland
Posts: 67,390
vCash: 2626
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnMyOwn View Post
They aren't gonna pay 7 mil for two pitchers that throw 2 innings combined, IMO. And that's not even every game.

Hammer is gone. If he's not before the season starts, ill be shocked.
It'll be closer to $10.5 million between the two.

I wouldn't be surprised if Hanrahan isn't moved before the team heads to Bradenton...but I will be surprised if he starts the season in Pittsburgh and shocked if he's still there come June, to say nothing of August. I just want us to get as much value out of him as possible...and it's at a low point right now. Once the dust settles and teams have a better idea of what their rosters are going to look like come April 1 then teams are going to be more open to talking trade.

Unfortunately I doubt the Royals are looking for a closer. Holy ****, I can't believe that Shields deal. That's what I'm terrified of from this team...the pressure to be a buyer for a good player in his prime causing a completely stupid, idiotic, potentially worst trade of the decade-type deal. Tampa milked the Royals for everything they had because they knew the Royals had to make a deal for a starter. Asking for more than one of the top prospects in baseball for James bleeping Shields should have been so insulting that talks broke off...instead the Royals saw that as a starting point. Yikes.

Just...yikes. Of course we could be looking back at this trade in 5 years with Wil Myers being nothing more than a AAAA bat who can't hit a breaking ball to save his life while the Royals actually win the division with Shields...but as of right now that deal was just suicide by KC. So much of what they've been in the process of building was flushed down the toilet because they tried to accelerate things.


Back to Hanrahan...even if the Pirates don't deal him there's no way that he's going to be a Pirate in 2014...but there is a point where he may provide more value to this team pitching for us for a season and collecting a compensation pick...I doubt Nutting would be willing to spend that much money on the bullpen and we all know Huntington doesn't believe in paying relievers good money, but it is possible.

For the record if there is one thing about the new draft rules that I do like, it's that traded players aren't eligible for draft compensation, which was one of the main reasons the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, etc. were always picking 2-4 times in the sandwich round while the bottom dwellers were lucky to pick once. If Hanrahan is dealt before the season starts the team that acquires him would be eligible to get a compensation pick, so his value is likely to be at it's highest in Spring Training. If he's dealt mid-season then there is no compensation pick for either team.


And I'm with Baruch in saying starter over reliever in the short-term. Hanrahan was essentially a throw-in acquisition, Grilli was signed away from the Phillies' AAA team, countless other effective arms the past few years have been Spring Training non-roster invitees...Hanrahan is more easily replaceable than a veteran #3/4 starter. I'd still be upset at a straight swap, but as the main pieces I'm warming up to that as a trade option.


Last edited by Big McLargehuge: 12-10-2012 at 10:34 PM.
Big McLargehuge is online now  
Old
12-10-2012, 10:28 PM
  #292
OnMyOwn
Outlive
 
OnMyOwn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: State College
Country: United States
Posts: 12,047
vCash: 500
I don't think nutting cares about "value". I think he'll be pressuring neal to move him due to salary and nothing else.

I like hammer and wouldn't mind keeping him. I just don't see it.


Also, correia just got 2 years 10mm from the twins.


Last edited by OnMyOwn: 12-10-2012 at 10:45 PM.
OnMyOwn is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 10:47 PM
  #293
Big McLargehuge
Global Moderator
You Must Be Tired
 
Big McLargehuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: S. Pasadena, CA
Country: Iceland
Posts: 67,390
vCash: 2626
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnMyOwn View Post
I don't think nutting cares about "value". I think he'll be pressuring neal to move him due to salary and nothing else.

I like hammer and wouldn't mind keeping him. I just don't see it.
I have no doubt that Nutting is encouraging Huntington to deal Hanrahan because of finances...but it's the finances of the position more than the bottom line here. It has to be noted that Capuano's contract has a minimum value of $7 million remaining on it...which is what Hammer is likely to get in arbitration (Capuano is set to make $6 million this year and then there's an option year for $6 million or a $1 million buyout).

A starter making $7 million makes far more sense to a team like the Pirates than a reliever making $7 million. It's also not like he's going from league minimum right to ~$7 million, Hammer made $4.1 million last year.

If the value just isn't there on the market then Hanrahan staying for a season (and collecting us a sandwich pick in 2014) may well be the more valuable option. I just don't want to see him dealt for a couple C-level prospects 'just because'.

One thing is sure...Capuano at $6 million is a far better option than Correia at $5 million.


edit: Brian Hoyer's memorable spell as a Steeler has come to an end, as he was claimed off waivers by Steelers West. For the Steelers this means Leftwich is healthy enough to return if needed. The Steelers weren't going to be keeping 4 QBs on the 53 man roster and I can only assume he was to be replaced by an offensive lineman.


Last edited by Big McLargehuge: 12-11-2012 at 12:03 AM.
Big McLargehuge is online now  
Old
12-11-2012, 05:02 AM
  #294
stefanh
Registered User
 
stefanh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Gothenburg
Posts: 1,319
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
I have no doubt that Nutting is encouraging Huntington to deal Hanrahan because of finances...but it's the finances of the position more than the bottom line here. It has to be noted that Capuano's contract has a minimum value of $7 million remaining on it...which is what Hammer is likely to get in arbitration (Capuano is set to make $6 million this year and then there's an option year for $6 million or a $1 million buyout).

A starter making $7 million makes far more sense to a team like the Pirates than a reliever making $7 million. It's also not like he's going from league minimum right to ~$7 million, Hammer made $4.1 million last year.

If the value just isn't there on the market then Hanrahan staying for a season (and collecting us a sandwich pick in 2014) may well be the more valuable option. I just don't want to see him dealt for a couple C-level prospects 'just because'.

One thing is sure...Capuano at $6 million is a far better option than Correia at $5 million.


edit: Brian Hoyer's memorable spell as a Steeler has come to an end, as he was claimed off waivers by Steelers West. For the Steelers this means Leftwich is healthy enough to return if needed. The Steelers weren't going to be keeping 4 QBs on the 53 man roster and I can only assume he was to be replaced by an offensive lineman.
Doesnt the Pirates have to offer Hanrahan 12M$ or something like that and him to decline it to get that pick though? Is that really probable?

stefanh is offline  
Old
12-11-2012, 08:20 AM
  #295
Gooch
Registered User
 
Gooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Coeur d'Alene Idaho
Country: United States
Posts: 14,461
vCash: 692
Its not like the Pirates budget is climbing all that high. I normally don't like to spend other people's money but Hanrahan is just for one season and this year's payroll is already lower than it should be. If they can't get something significant for him now then keep him on and use the crap out of him and maybe deal him at the deadline when he'll have more value than he does right now. Seems like teams offer up all kinds of goodies for even just run of the mill bullpen arms at that time of year.

Dumping Hanrahan for peanuts now simply because of a 7 mill salary when he's been an allstar and the team has something like a 30 mill dollar payroll would be enough to make me seriously question managements intent on fielding the best team possible. Theres no excuse after the attendance of the last couple of seasons for them to have another 30 mill dollar payroll this year.

Gooch is offline  
Old
12-11-2012, 09:01 AM
  #296
OnMyOwn
Outlive
 
OnMyOwn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: State College
Country: United States
Posts: 12,047
vCash: 500
I think payroll is probably closer to 60 mil. But I get your thinking. It sucks being a fan of a small market team. The pirates just won't pay a set up guy 3 mil and a closer 7 mil.

I'd love to be wrong, though.


Last edited by OnMyOwn: 12-11-2012 at 09:14 AM.
OnMyOwn is offline  
Old
12-11-2012, 12:31 PM
  #297
Captain Hook
Olli Määttä
 
Captain Hook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 15,060
vCash: 500
O-Line continues to shuffle due to injuries. MT says DeCastro will start at RG and Foster will move to LG. Mike Adams is still out.

Captain Hook is offline  
Old
12-11-2012, 01:11 PM
  #298
Big McLargehuge
Global Moderator
You Must Be Tired
 
Big McLargehuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: S. Pasadena, CA
Country: Iceland
Posts: 67,390
vCash: 2626
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanh View Post
Doesnt the Pirates have to offer Hanrahan 12M$ or something like that and him to decline it to get that pick though? Is that really probable?
Oh damn, that part slipped my mind. For a second there I thought MLB did something that made sense, like having a scaled system depending on position (like the NFL's RFA rules), but I forgot it's a flat number...that's over $13 million.

Ignore the compensation pick talk.

Big McLargehuge is online now  
Old
12-11-2012, 01:57 PM
  #299
wheelz87
Back to Back!!
 
wheelz87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 4,597
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
O-Line continues to shuffle due to injuries. MT says DeCastro will start at RG and Foster will move to LG. Mike Adams is still out.
Nice! (not about Adams) but looking forward to see the rookie in action.

wheelz87 is offline  
Old
12-11-2012, 03:54 PM
  #300
Gooch
Registered User
 
Gooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Coeur d'Alene Idaho
Country: United States
Posts: 14,461
vCash: 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnMyOwn View Post
I think payroll is probably closer to 60 mil. But I get your thinking. It sucks being a fan of a small market team. The pirates just won't pay a set up guy 3 mil and a closer 7 mil.

I'd love to be wrong, though.
I just looked it up. http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/salaries...sburgh-pirates

according to this it's 62 mill but thats them counting 16.5 mill for AJ Burnett and 10.5 mill for Wandy Rodriguez. Last I heard is that the vast majority of their pay is being picked up by the Yankees and Astros accordingly. Also, at 62 mill which we know is wrong as it's likely closer to 50 mill is good for 26 out of 30 with the rankings of total payrolls. Oakland is dead last at 49mill and after the corrections with the Burnett and Rodriguez I wouldnt be surprised to see the Pirates overtake them for the leagues lowest payroll.

Gooch is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:43 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.