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IIHF Centennial All-Star Team

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12-13-2012, 11:01 AM
  #1
tombombadil
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IIHF Centennial All-Star Team

I just stumbled onto this. (I know it's kind of old news)

Kharlamov-Gretzky-Makarov
Fetisov-Salming
Tretiak

I have not done a ton of research into international play... not much at all, really.

Hoping some of you have, as I have a few questions:

First off, I cant find the voting records of the '56' voters involved in this. I would REALLY like to know what other players received votes.

Also, who would you pick for YOUR team?

Not knowing much about International play, I am going to ignorantly say that I would hope that Sven Tumba would have received some votes, and also Jiri Holocek.

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12-13-2012, 11:06 AM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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I edited the title for you. To edit the title, you have to first go to edit your post then click "go advanced."

Anyway, all I know is what wikipedia says about vote totals:

Goaltender: Vladislav Tretiak (Soviet Union) - 30 Votes.
First defenceman: Viacheslav Fetisov (Soviet Union) - 54 votes.
Second defenceman: Börje Salming (Sweden) - 17 Votes.
First winger: Valeri Kharlamov (Soviet Union) - 21 Votes.
Second winger: Sergei Makarov (Soviet Union) - 18 Votes.
Centre: Wayne Gretzky (Canada) - 38 Votes.

The criteria is fairly vague. If IIHF-affiliated tournaments are all that matter, I'm not sure if Gretzky belongs on the list. But if Canada Cups are included, he should have gotten all 56 votes for center.

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12-13-2012, 11:10 AM
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Previous threads on this:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=442122
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=517986

Seems Canada Cups are officially included in the criteria. No idea why Gretzky isn't a unanimous selection then. I guess a lot of voters really had a higher regard for the Olympics and World Championships.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 12-13-2012 at 11:15 AM.
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Old
12-13-2012, 11:14 AM
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tombombadil
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thanks, I am about to check out those threads, now.

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12-13-2012, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Previous threads on this:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=442122
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=517986

Seems Canada Cups are officially included in the criteria. No idea why Gretzky isn't a unanimous selection then.
Probably because (like with NHL awards and so on) there is always bias, ignorance or just plain stupidity involved.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:45 AM
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tombombadil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Previous threads on this:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=442122
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=517986

Seems Canada Cups are officially included in the criteria. No idea why Gretzky isn't a unanimous selection then. I guess a lot of voters really had a higher regard for the Olympics and World Championships.
well, he definitely had the best Canada Cup in 87, and two other good ones. But perhaps, much like the guys on here when all-time lists are made, there are voters who were impressed with longevity, and Gold Medals. Someone like Tumba, just for instance, had over 100 points between Oly's and WC's, and was probably the reason the Swedes one 3 Golds in the 50's.

Maybe some voters penalized Gretzky for losing a lot of games to playing in the NHL - the flipside of which would be like Hasek losing votes on here for missing NHL time to Czech time.

I was really hoping someone knew anything about the other votes. I like all 6 guys they picked, but I'd like to know who else was recognized, ie. "Second All-Star Team"

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:54 AM
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http://www.goironpigs.com/?cat=40

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:56 AM
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no Canadians or Americans on this page, but it illustrates someo surprises as to who has made a killing at international events. These wouldn't include Can/World Cups, but someone like Miro Satan must have gotten some consideration for votes.

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Old
12-13-2012, 12:01 PM
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Darth Yoda
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The selections are not very odd at all when looking at the criteria. This is international hockey only, and therefore the soviets dominate becouse the WHC and early olympics is roughly given even weight compared to the Canada Cups and such. Of course that is a b**ls**t way to look at it.

Edit: Quite possibly Salming got in becouse he was "first" european in the NHL. This is not a very good all-star team, except if you're looking for the Hockey Icon All-Stars.


Last edited by Darth Yoda: 12-13-2012 at 12:11 PM.
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Old
12-14-2012, 05:41 PM
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I think Gretzky, Fetisov, and Makarov are pretty easy choices.

At LW you can argue Firsov vs. Kharlamov.

For G, you could make a case for Hasek (also had 3 WC Best Goalie awards, plus an Olympic best goalie and MVP in 1998).

The 2nd D spot, on the other hand, I don't think should have went to Salming. It seems that Chris Chelios has the better record internationally:
All-Star Team, 1991 Canada Cup
All-Star Team, 1996 World Cup
Best Defenceman and All-Star Team, 2002 Olympics

The fact that he played for his country in every major tournament over a 22-year period (1984 to 2006) is also a point in his favour.

With a team like this:
Kharlamov-Gretzky-Makarov
Fetisov-Chelios
Tretiak

This actually isn't a bad all-star team considering that it only includes players who had an opportunity to play internationally. If you only include players who have played in at least 2 major international tournaments, all-time forward, defence, and goalie lists would look like:

Gretzky
Lemieux
Jagr
Messier
Lafleur
Bossy
Trottier
Makarov
Kharlamov <-- best LW
etc.

Bourque
Lidstrom
Potvin
Fetisov
Chelios

Robinson
etc.

Hasek
Brodeur
Tretiak
etc.

To me this indicates that international play isn't too different from league play. The best players in the world are the best players, regardless of whether they're representing a hockey club or a country.


Last edited by Hammer Time: 12-14-2012 at 05:56 PM.
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Old
12-14-2012, 05:44 PM
  #11
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteor View Post
I think Gretzky, Fetisov, and Makarov are pretty easy choices.

At LW you can argue Firsov vs. Kharlamov.

For G, you could make a case for Hasek (also had 3 WC Best Goalie awards, plus an Olympic best goalie and MVP in 1998).

The 2nd D spot, on the other hand, I don't think should have went to Salming. It seems that Chris Chelios has the better record internationally:
All-Star Team, 1991 Canada Cup
All-Star Team, 1996 World Cup
Best Defenceman and All-Star Team, 2002 Olympics

The fact that he played for his country in every major tournament over a 22-year period (1984 to 2006) is also a point in his favour.
If you look at the links, it wasn't actually a LW/RW distinction, it was just centers and wings.

And wow, good point on Chris Chelios. Though given the fact that the IIHF ended up gritting their teeth and giving one spot to a North American (where a slim majority picked Gretzky at C), actually giving a second spot to a North American was probably too much to ask.

And yes, that's me saying the IIHF is packed with European homers.

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Old
12-14-2012, 06:15 PM
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Homer or not the Soviets have such a dominant international presence. Even a Canadian Homer like myself still has 5 of 6 as Euros.

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Old
12-14-2012, 06:53 PM
  #13
Hardyvan123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Previous threads on this:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=442122
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=517986

Seems Canada Cups are officially included in the criteria. No idea why Gretzky isn't a unanimous selection then. I guess a lot of voters really had a higher regard for the Olympics and World Championships.
Well if they treat all 3 types of tournaments the same or equal like some do eras then I can how how they might come to that conclusion.

Salming is an odd choice though in that his international resume isn't the 2nd best for Dmen is it?

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12-14-2012, 07:21 PM
  #14
Darth Yoda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Well if they treat all 3 types of tournaments the same or equal like some do eras then I can how how they might come to that conclusion.

Salming is an odd choice though in that his international resume isn't the 2nd best for Dmen is it?
Well, in some way him being the "first" european in the NHL is international. He gave Europe some kind of recognition i guess, or they just see it like that in hindsight, alas him being an Icon for european and international hockey. The standing ovation in Toronto before a CC game there in 1976 probably have left its mark.

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