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Albany Devils Games (PART II)

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Old
12-18-2012, 02:31 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by manilaNJ View Post
If the option was available to cast away multiple defensemen and keep Zid, that'd be fine. But I doubt that's possible.
This is exactly what I'm saying. If we could dump Tallinder, and Volchenkov keeping Zidlicky would be awesome. We're probably stuck with Volchenkov until 2016 though. He really hasn't been too much better last year than Colin White was before we bought him out.

If we move Tallinder, and Volchenkov we would be down to 6 D men including Harrold. Then we can re sign Zidlicky to a year contract or I'd be fine with two if Tallinder, and Volch were out of the picture. Then bring up Gelinas or Urbom in 2013. Ridding the team of Volchenkov is probably a pipe dream at this point. I like the guy, but he's not worth that at all. Clarkson will probably make that on his next contract.

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12-18-2012, 02:32 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by manilaNJ View Post
Zidlicky's skills were much needed, but it's not like we don't have anything coming up the pipeline.

These defensive prospects are just about ready to break into the league, they need to start playing against NHL level competition. They'll never get the opportunity if we keep Zid around.

If the option was available to cast away multiple defensemen and keep Zid, that'd be fine. But I doubt that's possible.
Prospects are just that... prospects. Couting on guys like Gélinas or Merrill to carry the offensive work load is nothing short of wishfull thinking IMO. If they do crack our lineup, they'll be playing limited minutes, nothing more.

If our best prospect, Adam Larsson, got calculated minutes by Big Bird and DeBoer... don't expect anything different for guys like Merrill and Co

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12-18-2012, 02:35 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
Ugh, why did Lou sign Volchenkov for six years.
And why did he sign Salvador for 3?

DATW's right (shudder ). If Zidlicky walks (which I still hope he does) and Lou does nothing else, that's back to Larsson being the only guy with any dynamic offensive ability.

If Larsson's ready to QB a top powerplay unit, it's slightly less of a big deal. If he's not, we likely lose the impact of a competent powerplay AND most of the transition game from the backend.

Seriously though, what happened to Volchenkov?

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12-18-2012, 02:40 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
Prospects are just that... prospects. Couting on guys like Gélinas or Merrill to carry the offensive work load is nothing short of wishfull thinking IMO. If they do crack our lineup, they'll be playing limited minutes, nothing more.

If our best prospect, Adam Larsson, got calculated minutes by Big Bird and DeBoer... don't expect anything different for guys like Merrill and Co
Prospects stop being prospects at some point. I'd prefer not to keep kicking that can down the road.

I wouldn't stick them with top pairing minutes in their first call ups, but they'll never even have the opportunity to play those limited minutes and adjust to NHL competition with the amount of well paid veteran defensemen in front of them.

But, like I said, if multiple contracts can somehow be dumped.. then I'm all for keeping Zidlicky around. Unless that's the case, it's for the betterment of the future of this team to let him walk.

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12-18-2012, 02:40 PM
  #255
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I wanted Salvador back in all honesty. I really don't like the contract he's on though. In fact had Lou signed Salvador before July 1st, and I'm sure Bryce would have signed, then we likely get him for MUCH cheaper. Maybe $2.5 max, and probably for 2 years max. And the $2.5 was probably for the playoff performance, and the big year he had all last season.

Salvador went to the market, and got these big offers, and asked Lou to match, and Lou did it. I'm pretty sure Bryce even said this the day he was re signed.

Which is why Lou can't make a mess like he did last year on July 1st. If our UFA guys that he intends to keep hit the market they could go for a million more than they would have maybe. Do you want Clarkson for $5 million a year when we could probably get him for $4?

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12-18-2012, 02:43 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Eggers View Post
And why did he sign Salvador for 3?

DATW's right (shudder ). If Zidlicky walks (which I still hope he does) and Lou does nothing else, that's back to Larsson being the only guy with any dynamic offensive ability.

If Larsson's ready to QB a top powerplay unit, it's slightly less of a big deal. If he's not, we likely lose the impact of a competent powerplay AND most of the transition game from the backend.

Seriously though, what happened to Volchenkov?
I'm always right... it just takes a little while for people to realise it

Regarding Volchenkov, it's not his game that changed all that much and the same thing can be said about Hall Gill, Derian Hatcher, Colin White, etc, etc, etc... If you have cement in your skates and you relied on hooking and grabbing prior to the lockout, your stock took a massive dive the second the "new rules" got implemented.

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12-18-2012, 02:46 PM
  #257
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I think it's safe to say a defender is traded and that Urbom/Gelinas step up as one of the defenseman in 2013-2014...

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12-18-2012, 02:49 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
I'm always right... it just takes a little while for people to realise it

Regarding Volchenkov, it's not his game that changed all that much and the same thing can be said about Hall Gill, Derian Hatcher, Colin White, etc, etc, etc... If you have cement in your skates and you relied on hooking and grabbing prior to the lockout, your stock took a massive dive the second the "new rules" got implemented.
Volchenkov's still a good defender, just doesn't fit the system. If this was the trapping Devils, or even a more defensive Devils system, he'd be awesome. In a puck-possession system, his style isn't adjusted to that. DeBoer and the Devils recognize this and in order to maximize his efficiency, they play him on the third pairing in key defensive situations.

Is he overpaid for the type of player he is? I don't think so. Is he overpaid for the role he's put in on the Devils? Definitely.

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12-18-2012, 02:49 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
I think it's safe to say a defender is traded and that Urbom/Gelinas step up as one of the defenseman in 2013-2014...
I hope so, but if the whole season is lost I can easily see no one traded, and Zidlicky just not re signed. Then we're back to 7 D men again if we re sign Harrold. I can see one of those guys coming up in 2014, and not re signing Tallinder.

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12-18-2012, 02:55 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by manilaNJ View Post
Prospects stop being prospects at some point. I'd prefer not to keep kicking that can down the road.

I wouldn't stick them with top pairing minutes in their first call ups, but they'll never even have the opportunity to play those limited minutes and adjust to NHL competition with the amount of well paid veteran defensemen in front of them.

But, like I said, if multiple contracts can somehow be dumped.. then I'm all for keeping Zidlicky around. Unless that's the case, it's for the betterment of the future of this team to let him walk.
The Devils have always taken their time with prospects and it'll be no different even if Zidlicky isn't resigned.

If we lose Zidlicky, be ready to see what we saw prior to his acquistion wich was a non existant counter attack game, brutal breakouts and zero creativity from our blueline when we have the puck in the offensive zone.

Zidlicky isn't a one man wrecking crew but forwards are a little more reluctant to pass to the point when they see guys like Sal and A-Train instead of Zid or anyone else that can handle a pass and create something from the point.

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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
I wanted Salvador back in all honesty. I really don't like the contract he's on though. In fact had Lou signed Salvador before July 1st, and I'm sure Bryce would have signed, then we likely get him for MUCH cheaper. Maybe $2.5 max, and probably for 2 years max. And the $2.5 was probably for the playoff performance, and the big year he had all last season.

Salvador went to the market, and got these big offers, and asked Lou to match, and Lou did it. I'm pretty sure Bryce even said this the day he was re signed.

Which is why Lou can't make a mess like he did last year on July 1st. If our UFA guys that he intends to keep hit the market they could go for a million more than they would have maybe. Do you want Clarkson for $5 million a year when we could probably get him for $4?
Lou has worked the same way since day #1 when talking about pending UFA's, so I wouldn't expect anything different to happen this summer... unfortunatly. I'll predict right now that we'll lose 1 to 3 players via the free agency market and that might bite us in the rear end more then we think, given the fact that we have to forfeit a 1st round pick the following year.

I just hope that if we do lose a couple of solid veterans via free agency, Lou won't sign "average players" to stupid contracts, just for the sake of replacing a Zajac/Clarkson/Elias.

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12-18-2012, 02:58 PM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
I'm always right... it just takes a little while for people to realise it

Regarding Volchenkov, it's not his game that changed all that much and the same thing can be said about Hall Gill, Derian Hatcher, Colin White, etc, etc, etc... If you have cement in your skates and you relied on hooking and grabbing prior to the lockout, your stock took a massive dive the second the "new rules" got implemented.
Except Volchenkov was essentially a first-pairing shutdown guy for five seasons after the lockout.

I really don't understand it though. He's not a bad skater, he pinched as much as any other defenseman not named Zidlicky, and he certainly didn't seem too bad defensively until the puck was on his stick, I just don't get why he got such limited minutes.

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12-18-2012, 03:02 PM
  #262
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What really got me mad was so many posts like ''Marty NEEDS TO RETIRE if we lose this series'' during the Panthers series. Yet people recognized how putrid Volchenkov was in that series, but no one reacted too much other than scratching their heads why he was being played over Larsson. In Anton's defense he probably was not healthy during that series cause I can't see how he could have turned that bad like that. I couldn't even see Jay Leach being that bad in that series, and trust me Jay Leach is BAD at the NHL level.

He got a little better as the playoffs went on, but caused the breakaway that Marty bailed him out on in game 5 of the SCF.

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12-18-2012, 03:12 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Eggers View Post
Except Volchenkov was essentially a first-pairing shutdown guy for five seasons after the lockout.

I really don't understand it though. He's not a bad skater, he pinched as much as any other defenseman not named Zidlicky, and he certainly didn't seem too bad defensively until the puck was on his stick, I just don't get why he got such limited minutes.
Even if he was a stud for the Sens, I just don't understand why you'd want to throw 4M$+ for a SAH, shutdown d-men... not named Nicklas Kronwall.

Those players are usefull, don't ge me wrong, but the price shouldn't be anything over 3M$ IMO. If we made Mike Mottau look "ok" in his own zone, it's because of the system we ran, nothing else. You don't need a lot of skill to play "positional defense" in your zone, you just need to cover a certain area and rely that your partner will do the same.

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12-18-2012, 03:15 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Eggers View Post
Except Volchenkov was essentially a first-pairing shutdown guy for five seasons after the lockout.

I really don't understand it though. He's not a bad skater, he pinched as much as any other defenseman not named Zidlicky, and he certainly didn't seem too bad defensively until the puck was on his stick, I just don't get why he got such limited minutes.
I understood it in the playoffs.

2 out of 4 series played were won by maintaining offensive zone pressure for long stretches of times. Sal & Zid taking big risks and pinching in well were a huge part of that.
You had Fayne & Greene who gelled well defensively, so that pairing wasn't going to be broken up.

That left Volchenkov with 1 of Harrold or Larsson who weren't going to eat big minutes.
I think it was a combination of not playing well to start things off followed by everyone else playing that much better

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12-18-2012, 03:32 PM
  #265
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I understood it in the playoffs.

2 out of 4 series played were won by maintaining offensive zone pressure for long stretches of times. Sal & Zid taking big risks and pinching in well were a huge part of that.
You had Fayne & Greene who gelled well defensively, so that pairing wasn't going to be broken up.

That left Volchenkov with 1 of Harrold or Larsson who weren't going to eat big minutes.
I think it was a combination of not playing well to start things off followed by everyone else playing that much better
You play your best players and you sit your worse players, period, regardless of contracts and all that other mumbo jumbo.

If Volchenkov was better then anyone else in our top #4, he would've played top #4 minutes but that wasn't the case then and it isn't the case now... so we are stuck with our highest paid d-men, getting limited minutes, for the next couple of seasons.

Is Volchenkov playing in the KHL atm and if so, for who and is he getting limited minutes overseas as well?

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12-18-2012, 03:41 PM
  #266
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Is Volchenkov playing in the KHL atm and if so, for who and is he getting limited minutes overseas as well?
14:09 TOI. Only played in 5 games though, and one of them might have been the game he got injured in. He broke his ankle, and was out for a couple months, but just returned before the KHL went on break. Lowest TOI out of all their D men.

http://en.khl.ru/players/3667/

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12-18-2012, 03:47 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
14:09 TOI. Only played in 5 games though, and one of them might have been the game he got injured in. He broke his ankle, and was out for a couple months, but just returned before the KHL went on break. Lowest TOI out of all their D men.

http://en.khl.ru/players/3667/
I wonder if something is wrong with Volchenkov physically that would explain why even in the KHL he's getting no minutes.

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12-18-2012, 03:51 PM
  #268
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I wonder if something is wrong with Volchenkov physically that would explain why even in the KHL he's getting no minutes.
They may be slowly getting him back in, because I believe he had only played 3 games before he got injured.

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12-18-2012, 03:52 PM
  #269
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The guy just can't keep up with the fast pace action and now that you can't hook, clutch of grab... he's not that valuable anymore at even strenght, especially on a bigger surface.

He can still knock you out in the 5th row with a lethal body check but I just think that his better days are well behind him and we just have to face the fact that he'll be on our books for the next 4 years.

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12-18-2012, 03:59 PM
  #270
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There's always the amnesty buyout

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12-18-2012, 04:02 PM
  #271
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There's always the amnesty buyout
Doubt it. I think if we were better financially then maybe. I would assume Lou might try to find a way to trade him before he does that. Maybe a buyout if he just has a year left down the road. If his play drops that bad.

In all honesty as of right now he's the worst contract on the team. Salvador's could become bad in a couple years, but Volchenkov's as it stands is the worst.

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12-18-2012, 04:02 PM
  #272
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There's always the amnesty buyout
Let's pray to god that it'll be approved by both parties in the new CBA

For a team in financial trouble, having your highest paid blueliner earn the least minutes while being on the longest of term is nothing short of stupid. As a business man, Vanderbeek must be losing his mind everytime he has to write Anton a check

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12-18-2012, 04:05 PM
  #273
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Don't think we'll utilize that option. If anything maybe on Barch!

Though with the $60 million cap I'd be ecstatic if we could. Especially if we're at the cap ceiling in the event we can hopefully re sign our UFA's who are much more important than Volchenkov, and most of the defensemen.

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12-18-2012, 04:50 PM
  #274
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our offensive defenseman Anton Volchenkov




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12-18-2012, 05:17 PM
  #275
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LOL! Good one!




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