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Old
12-10-2012, 01:36 PM
  #51
Hero
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I've heard Andrei Loktionov plays a similar game to Kadri.

From watching him play, I get a sense that he's a playmaking C with soft hands. I wonder if the comparisons keep going from there though?

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12-10-2012, 02:21 PM
  #52
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We don't need another defenceman.

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12-10-2012, 02:45 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
He is a top 6 center thats stuck behind koptiar and richards and stoll. He needs to be in a more offensive system. Hes not going to be able to move them so the kings have tryed him as a lw but hes not developing into one. He needs more offensive players on his wings. I see him as a 50 point center with being reasonabley defensively responceable
He's not a top 6 center at the moment.

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12-10-2012, 02:50 PM
  #54
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He's not a top 6 center at the moment.
No technically yes he is. Hes playing top 6 for the kings ahl team the mancheaster monarchs

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Old
12-10-2012, 06:01 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Sometimes i don't get you. Bozak may be traded, if not he is UFA next season. Both Lombardi and Connolly are gone next year. That leaves Grabo,Steckel and McClement out of your list of 6. Ashton won't be up due to our glut of wingers and if you have ever watched Lokti...he has good offensive skills and is very reliable on defense. There is zero downside to this deal as we need better young centers.
Bozak isn't going anywhere unless a substantially better centre is coming our way. Sure, he might leave as a UFA, but do you really believe either of him / Burke are going to allow that to happen while he's the team's #1 Centre?

With Bozak, Grabovski, McClement & Steckel, that doesn't leave room for Loktionov... never mind the fact that group is nowhere near good enough, and Loktionov not making a remotely substantial difference to that group to warrant a change.

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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
There are no checking line C's anymore, if you don't have a strong offensive 3rd line then your not a competitive team. The age difference is a single year, hardly enough to make a difference. There is a thing called trading from a position of stregnth to fill a position of weakness and as of right now we sorely need C's both on the team and in the prospect pool. Lokitonov is solid defensively, he can anchor a 3rd line, or be placed between Lupul and Kessel as a means to reduce the GA even if he doesn't produce offensively there are plenty of places he can be used, and our lineup definitely shouldn't hinder this deal... If finding him a spot is so difficult, explain to me where Ashton will play in the future, and if you do find a spot, explain what he brings that Biggs or Ross or Frattin can't.
There absolutely are checking line centres, they're just required to produce offensively these days too. Putting a guy like Loktionov in that role is not going to give us a strong 3rd line.

There is something called trading from strength to address weakness, and I'm all for it. However, there's also something called trading for players who address your needs, and who you can make greater value of than anyone else... and that's far more important than the principle of strengths for weaknesses.

The fact that you guys are thinking of slotting him on the first line between Kessel & Lupul as a means to reduce the goals against shows just how out of touch with reality you are. Tyler Bozak is a superior player in every single way, both offensively and defensively. That line being atrocious defensively isn't going to be solved by swapping Bozak for an even smaller centre. They're going to have to get bigger, and/or the wingers are going to have to decide that they want to play 2-way games.

As to where Ashton plays in the future. He could take a role on our 3rd line with Lombardi/MacArthur, or he's trade bait. Being trade bait is fine, but you don't trade for a guy likely to be trade bait in the future. You'll lose every time.

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Old
12-10-2012, 08:48 PM
  #56
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I prefer my canadian world junior players...

Ashton looks like he will fill out and be very strong on the puck.

Im happy waiting until he grows up and untucks his jersey.

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Old
12-10-2012, 09:17 PM
  #57
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Can anyone with connections forward this thread to Brian Burke and Dean Lombardi?

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12-10-2012, 10:12 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Bozak isn't going anywhere unless a substantially better centre is coming our way. Sure, he might leave as a UFA, but do you really believe either of him / Burke are going to allow that to happen while he's the team's #1 Centre?

With Bozak, Grabovski, McClement & Steckel, that doesn't leave room for Loktionov... never mind the fact that group is nowhere near good enough, and Loktionov not making a remotely substantial difference to that group to warrant a change.



There absolutely are checking line centres, they're just required to produce offensively these days too. Putting a guy like Loktionov in that role is not going to give us a strong 3rd line.

There is something called trading from strength to address weakness, and I'm all for it. However, there's also something called trading for players who address your needs, and who you can make greater value of than anyone else... and that's far more important than the principle of strengths for weaknesses.

The fact that you guys are thinking of slotting him on the first line between Kessel & Lupul as a means to reduce the goals against shows just how out of touch with reality you are. Tyler Bozak is a superior player in every single way, both offensively and defensively. That line being atrocious defensively isn't going to be solved by swapping Bozak for an even smaller centre. They're going to have to get bigger, and/or the wingers are going to have to decide that they want to play 2-way games.

As to where Ashton plays in the future. He could take a role on our 3rd line with Lombardi/MacArthur, or he's trade bait. Being trade bait is fine, but you don't trade for a guy likely to be trade bait in the future. You'll lose every time.
He is better than Bozak defensively however worse on the draw. I don't get how being smaller makes him worse defensively? I also see why he can't be a third line C, hes strong defensively and has the offense that you'd expect from a third liner.

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12-10-2012, 10:17 PM
  #59
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I'm surprised Oilers aren't making a pitch for Lokti. Hall and Lokti on a second line...

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12-10-2012, 10:38 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
He is better than Bozak defensively however worse on the draw. I don't get how being smaller makes him worse defensively? I also see why he can't be a third line C, hes strong defensively and has the offense that you'd expect from a third liner.


Loktionov is an AHL player... Bozak is a first line centre in the NHL, playing with 2 guys who are absolutely atrocious defensively.

Size has little to do with being worse defensively. Size gives Bozak the ability to be stronger on the puck, and unless Kessel/Lupul decide they're going to be 2 way players, the only way that line is going to reduce their goals against is to be stronger on the puck.

You don't put him on the 3rd line because he's not that kind of player. In the short run, you've got Connolly in that position. Next year, the Leafs better have somebody else at centre, or they're going to be in a world of hurt.

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Old
12-10-2012, 10:43 PM
  #61
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no thanks. i want blacker here for a loooong time.

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Old
12-10-2012, 10:53 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post


Loktionov is an AHL player... Bozak is a first line centre in the NHL, playing with 2 guys who are absolutely atrocious defensively.

Size has little to do with being worse defensively. Size gives Bozak the ability to be stronger on the puck, and unless Kessel/Lupul decide they're going to be 2 way players, the only way that line is going to reduce their goals against is to be stronger on the puck.

You don't put him on the 3rd line because he's not that kind of player. In the short run, you've got Connolly in that position. Next year, the Leafs better have somebody else at centre, or they're going to be in a world of hurt.
Im sorry to each their own but you don't appear to have any ability to judge what constitutes an AHL player if you think that Loktionov belongs there. He is in the AHL today because he was eligible to go there during the lock out but he played for us during the Stanley Cup Finals last year and was pivotal when he did.

When we needed another talented player to step in due to injury Loktionov stepped in and provided us with exceptional D and pitched in offencively as well.

Loktionov hasn't accomplished what Bozak has in the o zone yet as a kid but then Bozak hasn't come close to doing what Loktionov has regarding two way play either.

Loktionov plays on an ultra tight D above all costs system and has done very well at that aspect of his game but that doesn't mean that he can't won't develop into a very good second line center or maybe even more depending on the system he plays in.

He has the O ability in spades and if you spend enough time watching him play at the NHL level you will see that he is both fast and smart with the puck and very hard to knock off if it when he does have it. He makes very smart plays and at the end of last season he had begun really coming into his own offencively as well.


He may not be a lock to develop into a great 2nd line center but he should be a good one no matter where he ends up.

Who would you have him replace on the Kings at Center?

Kopitar? Richards? Stoll? Carter? Lewis/Fraser?

Loktionov unfortunately while being a very good young two way center is simply too redundant to our system and while it will suck to see him end up somewhere else we just dont have space for him right now and as such can deal him as it is a position of strength for our org.

Behind him we have Vey, Pearson, Porgy, Shore to name a few and have a few players playing at the NHL level who are and have been centers throughout their careers that are playing wing due to numbers (Carter Nolan Lewis to name a few).


Ashton is a solid young prospect and he is valued so by King fans and the more reasonable Leaf fans here by being considered as equal value for a player of Loktionov's calibre.

I mean your entitled to your own opinion but I have to disagree with it strongly here.

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12-10-2012, 10:54 PM
  #63
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no thanks. i want blacker here for a loooong time.
Good idea, but Blacker has been out of the conversation from the beginning. Kings don't need any more depth on D and it would take more than Blacker (who I like) to get Loktionov back at this point.

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12-11-2012, 07:12 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Im sorry to each their own but you don't appear to have any ability to judge what constitutes an AHL player if you think that Loktionov belongs there. He is in the AHL today because he was eligible to go there during the lock out but he played for us during the Stanley Cup Finals last year and was pivotal when he did.

When we needed another talented player to step in due to injury Loktionov stepped in and provided us with exceptional D and pitched in offencively as well.

Loktionov hasn't accomplished what Bozak has in the o zone yet as a kid but then Bozak hasn't come close to doing what Loktionov has regarding two way play either.

Loktionov plays on an ultra tight D above all costs system and has done very well at that aspect of his game but that doesn't mean that he can't won't develop into a very good second line center or maybe even more depending on the system he plays in.

He has the O ability in spades and if you spend enough time watching him play at the NHL level you will see that he is both fast and smart with the puck and very hard to knock off if it when he does have it. He makes very smart plays and at the end of last season he had begun really coming into his own offencively as well.


He may not be a lock to develop into a great 2nd line center but he should be a good one no matter where he ends up.

Who would you have him replace on the Kings at Center?

Kopitar? Richards? Stoll? Carter? Lewis/Fraser?

Loktionov unfortunately while being a very good young two way center is simply too redundant to our system and while it will suck to see him end up somewhere else we just dont have space for him right now and as such can deal him as it is a position of strength for our org.

Behind him we have Vey, Pearson, Porgy, Shore to name a few and have a few players playing at the NHL level who are and have been centers throughout their careers that are playing wing due to numbers (Carter Nolan Lewis to name a few).


Ashton is a solid young prospect and he is valued so by King fans and the more reasonable Leaf fans here by being considered as equal value for a player of Loktionov's calibre.

I mean your entitled to your own opinion but I have to disagree with it strongly here.
The only comment I've made on whether or not he belongs in the AHL is that he doesn't. However, belonging in the NHL doesn't make him an NHL player. Actually playing does.

Suggesting that he's going to be better defensively than a guy who's been a first line NHL centre for the majority of his career is completely ubsurd... especially when he's had the benefit of playing on one of the tightest checking teams in the league, while Bozak plays on one of the most offensively minded (with Phil Kessel). Suggesting that he's a better option than Bozak in that role is downright offensive.

Look, I have no doubt that Loktionov has the potential to be a good #2 centre with a solid, but unspectacular 2-way game. In fact, Mikhail Grabovski might be a good target. However... that brings up the exact reason why Toronto shouldn't be trading for Loktionov -- we already have the guy that he hopes to be on a 4 year contract.

Loktionov needs to play in the NHL if he's going to continue developing. The Leafs simply aren't the team to facilitate that. They cannot improve by adding Loktionov, because their weaknesses do not include depth at centre. Toronto's weaknesses at centre are at the top (Tyler Bozak as the #1), and in the system (Greg McKegg, Joe Colborne and that's pretty much it). Loktionov is too old to be "part of the system" anymore, and isn't good enough to displace roster players.

A team like Anaheim should value him much greater. Loktionov & Ashton might be equal value... but trades aren't made based on equal value. They're made on being in both team's best interest. Trading Ashton might be the right move. Trading him for a slightly older player who also has no spot on the team makes absolutely no sense.

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Old
12-11-2012, 08:36 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
The only comment I've made on whether or not he belongs in the AHL is that he doesn't. However, belonging in the NHL doesn't make him an NHL player. Actually playing does.

Suggesting that he's going to be better defensively than a guy who's been a first line NHL centre for the majority of his career is completely ubsurd... especially when he's had the benefit of playing on one of the tightest checking teams in the league, while Bozak plays on one of the most offensively minded (with Phil Kessel). Suggesting that he's a better option than Bozak in that role is downright offensive.

Look, I have no doubt that Loktionov has the potential to be a good #2 centre with a solid, but unspectacular 2-way game. In fact, Mikhail Grabovski might be a good target. However... that brings up the exact reason why Toronto shouldn't be trading for Loktionov -- we already have the guy that he hopes to be on a 4 year contract.

Loktionov needs to play in the NHL if he's going to continue developing. The Leafs simply aren't the team to facilitate that. They cannot improve by adding Loktionov, because their weaknesses do not include depth at centre. Toronto's weaknesses at centre are at the top (Tyler Bozak as the #1), and in the system (Greg McKegg, Joe Colborne and that's pretty much it). Loktionov is too old to be "part of the system" anymore, and isn't good enough to displace roster players.

A team like Anaheim should value him much greater. Loktionov & Ashton might be equal value... but trades aren't made based on equal value. They're made on being in both team's best interest. Trading Ashton might be the right move. Trading him for a slightly older player who also has no spot on the team makes absolutely no sense.
But again, the kid at his very worst is an exceptionally solid defensive 3rd liner..... He can play 3rd line C and has the potential to be more than what Bozak is. I have no idea why your so against the risk considering we have 2 C prospects, and 1 NHL calibre C that we are willing to keep. Loki has all the tools to be a solid two way C, one of those players that won't look out of place on any line as his defensive attributes coupled with his speed and creativity fits almost every role. The only downside to this deal is we traded a W prospect who will ave to compete with JVR, Kessel, Kulemin, Frattin, Kadri, Lupul, Biggs, Ross, Komarov, etc, etc. for the next 5 years to even just make an NHL roster.

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12-11-2012, 10:49 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
The only comment I've made on whether or not he belongs in the AHL is that he doesn't. However, belonging in the NHL doesn't make him an NHL player. Actually playing does.

Suggesting that he's going to be better defensively than a guy who's been a first line NHL centre for the majority of his career is completely ubsurd... especially when he's had the benefit of playing on one of the tightest checking teams in the league, while Bozak plays on one of the most offensively minded (with Phil Kessel). Suggesting that he's a better option than Bozak in that role is downright offensive.

Look, I have no doubt that Loktionov has the potential to be a good #2 centre with a solid, but unspectacular 2-way game. In fact, Mikhail Grabovski might be a good target. However... that brings up the exact reason why Toronto shouldn't be trading for Loktionov -- we already have the guy that he hopes to be on a 4 year contract.

Loktionov needs to play in the NHL if he's going to continue developing. The Leafs simply aren't the team to facilitate that. They cannot improve by adding Loktionov, because their weaknesses do not include depth at centre. Toronto's weaknesses at centre are at the top (Tyler Bozak as the #1), and in the system (Greg McKegg, Joe Colborne and that's pretty much it). Loktionov is too old to be "part of the system" anymore, and isn't good enough to displace roster players.

A team like Anaheim should value him much greater. Loktionov & Ashton might be equal value... but trades aren't made based on equal value. They're made on being in both team's best interest. Trading Ashton might be the right move. Trading him for a slightly older player who also has no spot on the team makes absolutely no sense.
I bolded your quote in where after a facepalm you wrote that AL is an AHL player and have re read what you have written a couple of times and still can't see where you are saying anything different but fair enough, you agree then that AL is an NHL player who by playing and succeeding in the NHL has proven himself to belong there.

AL's career NHL stats

59 gp 7g 7a +/- 0. Playing at times on our second line as a LW which he has never played before but still proved himself to be more than capable of competing as a rookie at the NHL level while doing so. When given time between two competent NHL caliber wings he puts up points has big skill skating and soft hands. These aren't speculative opinions but factual observations that have come from watching AL play throughout his development including his time in the NHL.

Tyler Bozak (a player I spent allot of time watching while he was with U of D) is a solid young NHL center but hasn't proven any ability to be responsible defencively yet at the NHL level at anywhere near the same way that Loktionov is capable of being.

Now the sample size for both players is too small to be conclusive but we are talking about two players who are totally different in style as well as where they are in regards to their amount of time spent in the NHL up to this point.

Also consider this, we are talking about Loktionov's established value as an NHL player against Ashton's potential value as a LW at the NHL level.

Will Loktionov ever be a 1st line center in the NHL? Apples and Oranges because nobody is saying that he will be but will he continue to be more defensively responsible as TB is at the NHL level? That is at least possible and not an absurd thing to consider at all.

Tyler Bozak is - 41 throughout his NHL career (192gp) which isn't terrible considering he has played on a team that is still developing its D system but also proves that he has yet to develop his own two way game which as of today needs work.

I agree that Loktionov needs to continue playing in the NHL because he has proven that he belongs playing there but it is naive to think that he isn't a better option as a 3rd line center then what you are looking at over the next couple of years on your team and considerably less expensive as well.

He would be a nice fit on the Leafs and your dealing from a position of strength to get him where the Kings are dealing from a position of strength in moving him as well.

The risk reward in this proposal is way positive for both teams. I think that is all that has been said and I don't see where that has changed at all.

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12-11-2012, 05:52 PM
  #67
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But again, the kid at his very worst is an exceptionally solid defensive 3rd liner..... He can play 3rd line C and has the potential to be more than what Bozak is. I have no idea why your so against the risk considering we have 2 C prospects, and 1 NHL calibre C that we are willing to keep. Loki has all the tools to be a solid two way C, one of those players that won't look out of place on any line as his defensive attributes coupled with his speed and creativity fits almost every role. The only downside to this deal is we traded a W prospect who will ave to compete with JVR, Kessel, Kulemin, Frattin, Kadri, Lupul, Biggs, Ross, Komarov, etc, etc. for the next 5 years to even just make an NHL roster.
No, he's really not. The guy has 60 games experience at the NHL level, it's ubsurd to call him "at the very worst, an exceptionally solid defensive 3rd liner". He's got potential, but at this point, that's all it really is.

As for risk, I have no problem taking risks where it makes sense. But what's far more important to me, and what should be far more important to you, is winning hockey games. Andrei Loktionov simply isn't good enough to help us in that regard. He wouldn't displace any of Connolly/Lombardi/McClement/Steckel in the roles they fill. Therefore, we're not in a position to take advantage of the value in a prospect who needs to be playing in the AHL, so we only lose by trading for him.

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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I bolded your quote in where after a facepalm you wrote that AL is an AHL player and have re read what you have written a couple of times and still can't see where you are saying anything different but fair enough, you agree then that AL is an NHL player who by playing and succeeding in the NHL has proven himself to belong there.

AL's career NHL stats

59 gp 7g 7a +/- 0. Playing at times on our second line as a LW which he has never played before but still proved himself to be more than capable of competing as a rookie at the NHL level while doing so. When given time between two competent NHL caliber wings he puts up points has big skill skating and soft hands. These aren't speculative opinions but factual observations that have come from watching AL play throughout his development including his time in the NHL.

Tyler Bozak (a player I spent allot of time watching while he was with U of D) is a solid young NHL center but hasn't proven any ability to be responsible defencively yet at the NHL level at anywhere near the same way that Loktionov is capable of being.

Now the sample size for both players is too small to be conclusive but we are talking about two players who are totally different in style as well as where they are in regards to their amount of time spent in the NHL up to this point.

Also consider this, we are talking about Loktionov's established value as an NHL player against Ashton's potential value as a LW at the NHL level.

Will Loktionov ever be a 1st line center in the NHL? Apples and Oranges because nobody is saying that he will be but will he continue to be more defensively responsible as TB is at the NHL level? That is at least possible and not an absurd thing to consider at all.

Tyler Bozak is - 41 throughout his NHL career (192gp) which isn't terrible considering he has played on a team that is still developing its D system but also proves that he has yet to develop his own two way game which as of today needs work.

I agree that Loktionov needs to continue playing in the NHL because he has proven that he belongs playing there but it is naive to think that he isn't a better option as a 3rd line center then what you are looking at over the next couple of years on your team and considerably less expensive as well.

He would be a nice fit on the Leafs and your dealing from a position of strength to get him where the Kings are dealing from a position of strength in moving him as well.

The risk reward in this proposal is way positive for both teams. I think that is all that has been said and I don't see where that has changed at all.
Andrei Loktionov is an AHL player. He may belong in the NHL from a developmentmental standpoint, but that doesn't make him an NHL player, and more importantly, doesn't make him an NHL player on the Leafs. A hole in our NHL lineup that he's capable of filling would make him an NHL player on the LEafs.

As for Bozak, when has he had the opportunity to prove that he's a solid defensive player, considering he's spent the majority of his career playing with Phil Kessel on an atrocious defensive team?

Loktionov simply isn't a better option for 3rd line centre than what we have going forward. In the immidiate, we've got a collection of Connolly, Lombardi, McClement and Steckel. Longer term, Toronto absolutely needs to add a top centre at basically any cost, which will likely eliminate any vacancy on the 3rd line.

So no, there is no fit on the Leafs, nor does trading for Loktionov address any weaknesses. We are not weak in the department of NHL/AHL depth at any forward position. We are weak at the top of our centre group, and in terms of prospects. Loktionov isn't good enough to be our top line centre, and isn't young enough to be considered a prospect anymore. It's not a risk/reward situation, it's a trade-for-an-asset-that-youre-going-to-ruin situation.

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Old
12-11-2012, 06:00 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
No, he's really not. The guy has 60 games experience at the NHL level, it's ubsurd to call him "at the very worst, an exceptionally solid defensive 3rd liner". He's got potential, but at this point, that's all it really is.

As for risk, I have no problem taking risks where it makes sense. But what's far more important to me, and what should be far more important to you, is winning hockey games. Andrei Loktionov simply isn't good enough to help us in that regard. He wouldn't displace any of Connolly/Lombardi/McClement/Steckel in the roles they fill. Therefore, we're not in a position to take advantage of the value in a prospect who needs to be playing in the AHL, so we only lose by trading for him.
This is the stupidest logic ever by your logic, Gardiner has the potential to be a top 4 D but its only potential thus far because it has only been 75 games.... Loki has done all he can at the AHL level and is currently NHL ready. He would provide a different game then either of McClement or Steckel and would definitely replace Connolly and Lombardi as he would be a cheaper option for players that won't be coming back. There is more worth in having an NHL ready C with exceptional all around talent then a power forward prospect that we have plenty of.

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12-11-2012, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
This is the stupidest logic ever by your logic, Gardiner has the potential to be a top 4 D but its only potential thus far because it has only been 75 games.... Loki has done all he can at the AHL level and is currently NHL ready. He would provide a different game then either of McClement or Steckel and would definitely replace Connolly and Lombardi as he would be a cheaper option for players that won't be coming back. There is more worth in having an NHL ready C with exceptional all around talent then a power forward prospect that we have plenty of.
Gardiner is a top 4 defenceman, or at least very close to it right now (or at least was last year). Loktionov is anything but an "exceptionally solid defensive 3rd liner" -- he simply played on a great defensive game.

What he's done at the AHL is irrelevant to whether or not he'd surpass players on the Leafs depth chart immidiately. He definitely provides a different game than Steckel, but that doesn't say anything about who is better in a 4th line role. Personally, I'll lean to having one of the league's top faceoff guys on my 4th line over a project centre. In context of McClement, Lokti might do things similar to him, but we've already got him.

As for replacing Connolly / Lombardi, no, he wouldn't in a 2013 season if it's to be played. He's an inferior player. In the context of a 2013-2014 seeason, yeah, he's cheaper. But in the situation where we're looking at retaining one of those guys, we're looking at Tyler Bozak and Mikhail Grabovski as the team's 1-2 centres. That's simply unacceptable. Given that this must change at basically any cost, chances are that role won't be available anyways. The only way it would make sense to take on Lokti is if the plan was definitely to move Bozak and get a #1C, but you certainly don't count your chickens before they hatch.

As a simple question... let's see your proposed centre depth where Lokti is in the top 4... for 2013 (if a season is to be played)... and the 2013-2014 season... then ask yourself if that is actually a good idea.

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12-11-2012, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Gardiner is a top 4 defenceman, or at least very close to it right now (or at least was last year). Loktionov is anything but an "exceptionally solid defensive 3rd liner" -- he simply played on a great defensive game.

What he's done at the AHL is irrelevant to whether or not he'd surpass players on the Leafs depth chart immidiately. He definitely provides a different game than Steckel, but that doesn't say anything about who is better in a 4th line role. Personally, I'll lean to having one of the league's top faceoff guys on my 4th line over a project centre. In context of McClement, Lokti might do things similar to him, but we've already got him.

As for replacing Connolly / Lombardi, no, he wouldn't in a 2013 season if it's to be played. He's an inferior player. In the context of a 2013-2014 seeason, yeah, he's cheaper. But in the situation where we're looking at retaining one of those guys, we're looking at Tyler Bozak and Mikhail Grabovski as the team's 1-2 centres. That's simply unacceptable. Given that this must change at basically any cost, chances are that role won't be available anyways. The only way it would make sense to take on Lokti is if the plan was definitely to move Bozak and get a #1C, but you certainly don't count your chickens before they hatch.

As a simple question... let's see your proposed centre depth where Lokti is in the top 4... for 2013 (if a season is to be played)... and the 2013-2014 season... then ask yourself if that is actually a good idea.
I give up, the fact that you refuse to see the value is ridiculous and your reasons are even worse... I won't argue any more your right and every leaf fan in this thread is an idiot.

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12-11-2012, 08:52 PM
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I'd do Blacker for Loktionov straight up. Leafs could use some centre depth.

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12-11-2012, 09:06 PM
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I'd do Blacker for Loktionov straight up. Leafs could use some centre depth.
But the Kings wouldn't. Nothing against Black but we are overloaded with NHL ready talented kid D men and will likely either move or flat out lose at least one of them when the season starts for nothing and still have plenty of depth.

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12-11-2012, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
I give up, the fact that you refuse to see the value is ridiculous and your reasons are even worse... I won't argue any more your right and every leaf fan in this thread is an idiot.

Trades aren't made based on some measure of value. They're made based on it being in the teams best interest, more specifically, delivering value to each team.

If you can show me how the Leafs NHL centre depth chart is better with Loktionov in it... you'll have a point. Otherwise, it's just trading for an asset that will decline in value playing in the AHL.

Of course, there's value in having him as an AHL callup centre, but there is going to be one of the other 28 teams in the league that values him greater than that. It'll be a team that doesn't have 6 NHL centres that are either better than him, or better at the role they'd be tasked with.

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12-11-2012, 10:56 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Trades aren't made based on some measure of value. They're made based on it being in the teams best interest, more specifically, delivering value to each team.

If you can show me how the Leafs NHL centre depth chart is better with Loktionov in it... you'll have a point. Otherwise, it's just trading for an asset that will decline in value playing in the AHL.

Of course, there's value in having him as an AHL callup centre, but there is going to be one of the other 28 teams in the league that values him greater than that. It'll be a team that doesn't have 6 NHL centres that are either better than him, or better at the role they'd be tasked with.
If the lockout magically ended today. Loktionov would likely be on the Marlies, maybe getting a few games as a call-up for the Leafs while they looked for buyers for Connolly and Lombardi. Once that was accomplished, I would line them up like so..

Bozak
Grabo
Loktionov
McClement
13th F - Steckel

I would play Loktionov with Kulemin and Frattin, two big, physical players that can score goals. For the line-up for 2013/2014 I'd be comfortable with this, although I'd hope Burke would make an attempt to upgrade on Bozak in the #1 center hole. If that happened Bozak would likely slide down and make Loktionov expendable in a trade or a 4th liner/13th forward.

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12-11-2012, 11:02 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by vinnybaby View Post
If the lockout magically ended today. Loktionov would likely be on the Marlies, maybe getting a few games as a call-up for the Leafs while they looked for buyers for Connolly and Lombardi. Once that was accomplished, I would line them up like so..

Bozak
Grabo
Loktionov
McClement
13th F - Steckel

I would play Loktionov with Kulemin and Frattin, two big, physical players that can score goals. For the line-up for 2013 I'd be comfortable with this, although I'd hope Burke would make an attempt to upgrade on Bozak in the #1 center hole. If that happened Bozak would likely slide down and make Loktionov expendable in a trade or a 4th liner/13th forward.
Finally! Progress!

But do you truly believe that the Leafs, pushing for a playoff spot, are going to start looking to dump players like Connolly / Lombardi, to play an inferior player like Loktionov? That's just not realistic, or even sensible.

Going onto 2013-14, Burke absolutely has to upgrade Bozak as the #1, which most likely slides him down to the #3 and makes Loktionov trade bait... which brings me back to the original point.

Loktionov on the Leafs would be destined to play in the AHL for most of a season if there is one, and would then be trade bait. You don't trade for a player when the expectation is for him to be trade bait in the near future (or play in a role that he isn't suited for). It's a lose-lose every time, as it creates one more seed of doubt in GMs minds about other GMs wanting him on their team, and eliminates a possible suitor.

The place for Loktionov to go is a team that's actually going to play him. Somebody like Anaheim, where he'll have a realistic chance to work his way into the lineup immidiately.

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