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Old
12-10-2012, 11:11 AM
  #51
JustinCider
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If Getz is signed long term at a decent rate (6-6.5 per), the deal is very interesting. As good as Seguin and Hamilton look to be, neither have proven or produced like Getzlaf and Ryan have. It would be a gamble for the Ducks, but it could end up being a home run. Either way, that's a whole lot of talent in 1 trade. Imagine if it went down, the biggest team in the NHL, gets even bigger.

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Old
12-10-2012, 11:15 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beer Me View Post
to Bos:

RYAN GETZLAF
BOBBY RYAN

to Anah:

TYLER SEGUIN
DOUGIE HAMILTON
Thanks for the offer but I feel like seguins a player that is too skilled to give up. Not fOr sale

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Old
12-10-2012, 11:56 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by internetdotcom View Post
Wait, what? You say its brutal for Anaheim, then in the next breath say it has merit, then in the next breath say you don't see the Ducks doing it? I'm not understanding this, it seems like you are contradicting yourself within one sentence. Please explain.

As to the OP, the only way there is any chance Boston does this is if Getzlaf is resigned. Even then, I don't think I do it if I'm Boston. Sure Hamilton (and to a lesser extent Seguin) are unproven, but as much as some people around here don't see it, upside and potential do factor in as well. As a Sens fan, I'd love to see Seguin and Hamilton head out west, even considering what is coming back, but I don't think Boston does this.
I meant it could be a possible legwork, my bad for phrasing it badly lol.

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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Horton
Hamilton
Spooner

for

Perry
Fowler
Doubt they would do this one either.

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Old
12-10-2012, 06:05 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Kegs View Post
Thanks for the offer but I feel like seguins a player that is too skilled to give up. Not fOr sale
If Seguin ends up being as good as Getzlaf, I think the Bruins will be very happy. Getzlaf had an off year last season, and was dealing with some injuries. The guy is a huge centre, with all star talent, and a mean streak. He's easily one of the top 10 centres in the league. Seguin has the potential to be a top end centre, he isn't there yet, but one thing for sure, he'll never be as big and as mean as Getzlaf. This is coming from someone who can't stand the Ducks.

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Old
12-10-2012, 06:13 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
Seguin has proven he can outscore Ryan and Getzlaf. It may have been an off year for Getzlaf, but Boston would have to assume he returns to being a ppg player and that he would re-sign with the team.

You are right, teams aren't going to assume anything and they would both keep their guys.
Wait, what? Seguin has proven he can outscore Getzlaf? I'm sorry, but that is just not true at all. What Seguin has proven is that he can outscore Getzlaf in an off-year, which isn't the same thing at all. Get back to me when Seguin has four seasons where he can produce over a PPG.

Seguin is a terrific young player, but he has a ways to go before he's on the same level as Getzlaf.

Edit: Which, for the record, doesn't mean I think Boston would jump at this deal, considering Getzlaf's contract status, but any argument that Seguin is the best player in this deal, as of right now, is just a false claim.

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Old
12-10-2012, 06:16 PM
  #56
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Well, Getzlaf probably would sign in Boston, but right now, with the looks of no season coming it's Seguin and Hamilton for Ryan and Getlaf's rights. It's a loss for Boston.

Assuming Getlaf is extended, then it's a loss for Anaheim.

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12-10-2012, 06:29 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinCider View Post
If Seguin ends up being as good as Getzlaf, I think the Bruins will be very happy. Getzlaf had an off year last season, and was dealing with some injuries. The guy is a huge centre, with all star talent, and a mean streak. He's easily one of the top 10 centres in the league. Seguin has the potential to be a top end centre, he isn't there yet, but one thing for sure, he'll never be as big and as mean as Getzlaf. This is coming from someone who can't stand the Ducks.
Lucic
Horton
Chara

The Bruins don't need Seguin to be "big and mean"..

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Old
12-10-2012, 06:39 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Lucic
Horton
Chara

The Bruins don't need Seguin to be "big and mean"..
Horton is a pending UFA who has had major injury issues. Boston proved that being big and mean and skilled is a deadly combination. Your right, the Bruins are already big and mean and skilled. No argument there, but if Getzlaf is signed, I like that deal for the B's, it makes them even bigger, even meaner, and even more skilled. Like I already said, Seguin and Hamilton are both young players with loads of potential, they could end up being all stars. The only difference is, Getzlaf and Ryan are all stars already. But if this deal comes without an extension in place for Getzlaf, there is no way the Bruins would do it, way too risky.

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Old
12-10-2012, 06:41 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Lucic
Horton
Chara

The Bruins don't need Seguin to be "big and mean"..
That doesn't discount his point at all. Getzlaf, on his game, is a beast. Not just offensively, but physically. He's just such a powerful player. A player who can put up over a PPG, and overpower the opposing team's defense, is a rare player. Right now Seguin isn't even up to Getzlaf's offensive level, let alone his physical one.

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Old
12-10-2012, 06:57 PM
  #60
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The Ducks as it is only have four top 6 forwards signed for this season (if there is one), including a 42 year old that looked like he was finally slowing down last season. If we did this trade, we would be much worse up front and we would have created a bigger logjam on the blueline.

Value wise it's probably close when you factor in the fact Getzlaf is a UFA and Seguin and Hamilton are both under 21 years old but needs wise it's not a fit for Anaheim. I don't see any reason for Boston to make this trade either.

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Old
12-10-2012, 07:20 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
That doesn't discount his point at all. Getzlaf, on his game, is a beast. Not just offensively, but physically. He's just such a powerful player. A player who can put up over a PPG, and overpower the opposing team's defense, is a rare player. Right now Seguin isn't even up to Getzlaf's offensive level, let alone his physical one.
Winning teams don't have rosters full of identical players. You won't win with a roster full of finesse players,, or a roster full of power forwards. Teams need balance. Skill, grit, power forwards, two-way forwards, pp QB, shutdown dmen, etc.. The Bruins have good balance and Seguin is the most skilled player on their roster. He wouldn't be traded for a type player the Bruins already have enough of.

Seguin may very well pass up both Getzlaf and Ryan soon, he already outscored both as a 19yr old.

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Old
12-10-2012, 07:38 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Winning teams don't have rosters full of identical players. You won't win with a roster full of finesse players,, or a roster full of power forwards. Teams need balance. Skill, grit, power forwards, two-way forwards, pp QB, shutdown dmen, etc.. The Bruins have good balance and Seguin is the most skilled player on their roster. He wouldn't be traded for a type player the Bruins already have enough of.

Seguin may very well pass up both Getzlaf and Ryan soon, he already outscored both as a 19yr old.
I didn't realize Boston had a player identical to Ryan Getzlaf. That's news to me. I imagine it would be news to the rest of the league too.

Oh please. Seguin outscored Getzlaf in the worst season of his career, when Getzlaf put up numbers significantly off from his average. As I've already said, that isn't the same thing at all, and is a pretty awful argument. It's not like Seguin matched Getzlaf's average. What Seguin may do, and what he will do... Like I said, I think Seguin is a terrific young player, but there is no argument for him as the better player at this point in time. Basically, you'd need to assume that Getzlaf just falls completely off the map. Possible? Sure. Likely? Not so much.

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Old
12-10-2012, 07:43 PM
  #63
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Getzlaf has never surpassed 25G season in his career; as a centerman, his peak point total years were led by dishing assists. Seguin has already scored 29G at 19 years age; when and if switched to centerman, his goal/assist point totals should skyrocket. Boston being positioned to draft top 10 doesn't happen often; once acquired, they won't be traded. Seguin-Subban-Hamilton, that's the future base.

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12-10-2012, 07:48 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Eennad142 View Post
Getzlaf has never surpassed 25G season in his career; as a centerman, his peak point total years were led by dishing assists. Seguin has already scored 29G at 19 years age; when and if switched to centerman, his goal/assist point totals should skyrocket. Boston being positioned to draft top 10 doesn't happen often; once acquired, they won't be traded. Seguin-Subban-Hamilton, that's the future base.
Er... Getzlaf has shown he can put up 90 points dishing assists, yet you hold that against him?

Edit: I understand this is Hockey's Future, but it's a strange argument to say "Well, Seguin could do this..." vs. "Getzlaf has done this..."

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12-10-2012, 08:24 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
I didn't realize Boston had a player identical to Ryan Getzlaf. That's news to me. I imagine it would be news to the rest of the league too.

Oh please. Seguin outscored Getzlaf in the worst season of his career, when Getzlaf put up numbers significantly off from his average. As I've already said, that isn't the same thing at all, and is a pretty awful argument. It's not like Seguin matched Getzlaf's average. What Seguin may do, and what he will do... Like I said, I think Seguin is a terrific young player, but there is no argument for him as the better player at this point in time. Basically, you'd need to assume that Getzlaf just falls completely off the map. Possible? Sure. Likely? Not so much.
You labeled Getzlaf as a power forward "big and mean". Lucic is 6'4" 230lbs, and mean...and he's scored 30 goals already in his young career.

Horton isn't so bad either.

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Old
12-10-2012, 08:27 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
You labeled Getzlaf as a power forward "big and mean". Lucic is 6'4" 230lbs, and mean...and he's scored 30 goals already in his young career.

Horton isn't so bad either.
I didn't label Getzlaf as anything of the sort. I called him a powerful player, who can overpower the opposing team's defense. He's also an incredibly skilled player, who is an elite playmaking center. Being strong and powerful doesn't exclude finesse and skill. It never has. You're attaching a label to Getzlaf and imposing your own restrictions based on that label. Just because you've pigeon-holed Getzlaf into a niche does not mean he falls only within that niche.

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12-10-2012, 08:28 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Er... Getzlaf has shown he can put up 90 points dishing assists, yet you hold that against him?

Edit: I understand this is Hockey's Future, but it's a strange argument to say "Well, Seguin could do this..." vs. "Getzlaf has done this..."
Point is, Seguin is 20yrs old. At age 19 he already led the Bruins in scoring. Maybe he will eventually put up 90pts, maybe he won't, but he sure looks like he's on his way to NHL stardom. Why trade that potential for a centerman? They already have 2 darn good top-6 centers. AND Getzlaf is a UFA!!

No chance B's make this deal

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12-10-2012, 08:32 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Point is, Seguin is 20yrs old. At age 19 he already led the Bruins in scoring. Maybe he will eventually put up 90pts, maybe he won't, but he sure looks like he's on his way to NHL stardom. Why trade that potential for a centerman? They already have 2 darn good top-6 centers. AND Getzlaf is a UFA!!

No chance B's make this deal
I've already said that I can understand why Boston wouldn't make this deal. Which doesn't mean Anaheim would do it either. All I've disputed were the ridiculous statements that Seguin has shown he can outscore Getzlaf, your assertions that Getzlaf is a player Boston already has, and that Seguin is, in some way, the best player in this deal.

There is a difference between what could happen, and what actually is.

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12-10-2012, 08:34 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
I didn't label Getzlaf as anything of the sort. I called him a powerful player, who can overpower the opposing team's defense. He's also an incredibly skilled player, who is an elite playmaking center. Being strong and powerful doesn't exclude finesse and skill. It never has. You're attaching a label to Getzlaf and imposing your own restrictions based on that label. Just because you've pigeon-holed Getzlaf into a niche does not mean he falls only within that niche.
Now you're just back pedaling. "Powerful player who can over power opposing teams defense & has skill"... Sounds to me like the exact definition of a power forward! I'll go out on a limb and suggest that it takes some level of skill to score 30 goals and 60+ points in a season in the NHL (which Lucic has done).

Getzlaf is a great player, and I'm guessing he will bounce back statistically when the NHL resumes play,, but no chance Boston trades Seguin for a power forward when they already have Lucic and Horton to a lesser extent. Seguin is Boston's most skilled player. My guess is he will not be traded any time soon, not for a pending UFA

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12-10-2012, 08:39 PM
  #70
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Seguin >>> Getzlaf
Hamilton and Ryan are difficult. Hamilton may be tempting for Anaheim, but he hasn't necessarily proven himself to be a quality NHL player.

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12-10-2012, 08:40 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Getzlaf is a great player, and I'm guessing he will bounce back statistically when the NHL resumes play,, but no chance Boston trades Seguin for a power forward when they already have Lucic and Horton to a lesser extent. Seguin is Boston's most skilled player. My guess is he will not be traded any time soon, not for a pending UFA
I don't think anyone is disputing that.

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12-10-2012, 08:43 PM
  #72
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Now you're just back pedaling. "Powerful player who can over power opposing teams defense & has skill"... Sounds toe like the exact definition of a power forward! I'll go out on a limb and suggest that it takes some level of skill to score 30 goals and 60+ points in a season in the NHL (which Lucic has done).

Getzlaf is a great player, and I'm guessing he will bounce back statistically when the NHL resumes play,, but no chance Boston trades Seguin for a power forward when they already have Lucic and Horton to a lesser extent. Seguin is Boston's most skilled player. My guess is he will not be traded any time soon, not for a pending UFA
You're inserting your own definitions here, and I'm the one back pedaling? You're the one who jumped to the conclusion that tough and finesse don't go together. I never used the term power forward, and I don't really think it applies to Getzlaf. Can he play a power forward game? Absolutely, he can. But more than his physical presence, he is an elite playmaker. An absolutely top notch passer who can make something out of nothing. It's not like Lucic and Horton are "Getzlaf-lite" players. They are good players in their own right, but Getzlaf is an elite talent, and he's proven that in so many more ways than any "comparable" players you're insisting Boston has.

I'm not trying to convince you that Boston should make this deal. In fact, I've said multiple times already that I don't think Boston would. But basically everything about the Boston players is about what they might become. Not what they currently are. Anaheim would be trading their #1 center, and a consistent 30-goal scorer, players they just can't afford to give up... not unless they have a strong reason to believe Ryan Getzlaf won't re-sign.

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12-10-2012, 08:45 PM
  #73
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I think Getzlaf and Ryan is too much to give up for unestablished talent.

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12-10-2012, 08:51 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
I'm not trying to convince you that Boston should make this deal. In fact, I've said multiple times already that I don't think Boston would. But basically everything about the Boston players is about what they might become. Not what they currently are. Anaheim would be trading their #1 center, and a consistent 30-goal scorer, players they just can't afford to give up... not unless they have a strong reason to believe Ryan Getzlaf won't re-sign.
Maybe I'm alone in thinking this, but I don't think losing Getzlaf makes us more likely to trade Ryan.

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12-10-2012, 08:55 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Maybe I'm alone in thinking this, but I don't think losing Getzlaf makes us more likely to trade Ryan.
I don't know, there seems to be some odd belief that the Ducks are in rebuild mode. I think they're still a good team

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