HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk > Polls - (hockey-related only)

Is Grabovski a top-six centre on a contender?

View Poll Results: Is Grabovski a first or second line centre on a contender?
Yes 164 56.94%
No 77 26.74%
Not if they want to win 47 16.32%
Voters: 288. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-11-2012, 09:01 AM
  #126
The Podium
Formerly chrisx101
 
The Podium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,282
vCash: 657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
There was a recent poll here between Krejci and Grabovski, it wasn't close.
Omg a poll! An HF poll! That surely means krejci and Grabovski are worlds apart! Give me a break

The Podium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 09:44 AM
  #127
Beleafer4
Registered User
 
Beleafer4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,672
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Quoting Corsi stats is hardly proof of anything. It's a highly debatable often unreliable stat. Don't even want to bother posting how many good, great players did not fare well in corsi.

What we do know, is Nik Kulemin is an excellent defensive winger, we do know prior to his injury last year Grabovoski was +7, once Kulemin got hurt, Grabovoski went the rest of the season -7. As a person that saw all Leafs games last season, I can assure you he was much less effective when Kulemin went down.

Again to quote one of the posters here, if he was the shutdown Center of the Leafs last year, what does it say that the Leafs were the second worst defensive team in the NHL last year. I don't know how a team can have an effective shut down line with the 29th worst GA in the league.
Thats a terrible terrible arguement. When kulemin got injured, the team went like 1-14 for the rest of the stretch (dunno the actual stats but it sure felt like it). Obviously gabovski would go in the minus then. And you over exaggerrate kulemins help last year. The dude played like thirty point player! So even if he did well defensively, he contributed minimally offensively, minimizing his effect on grabovski's +/-

Beleafer4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 10:36 AM
  #128
Interactif
Registered User
 
Interactif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,710
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beleafer4 View Post
Thats a terrible terrible arguement. When kulemin got injured, the team went like 1-14 for the rest of the stretch (dunno the actual stats but it sure felt like it). Obviously gabovski would go in the minus then. And you over exaggerrate kulemins help last year. The dude played like thirty point player! So even if he did well defensively, he contributed minimally offensively, minimizing his effect on grabovski's +/-
Grabovski has only played well with 2 wingers, Macarthur and Kulemin, more so Kulemin, thus it is an excellent argument. Has Grabovoski ever played well with other wingers, former 40 goal man Jason Blake just to name one?

Interactif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 10:59 AM
  #129
The Blue Devil
Registered User
 
The Blue Devil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,527
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Grabovski has only played well with 2 wingers, Macarthur and Kulemin, more so Kulemin, thus it is an excellent argument. Has Grabovoski ever played well with other wingers, former 40 goal man Jason Blake just to name one?
Do you mean the one time anomoly 40 goal winger? The same guy that had never come close to that total in his career except that 1 year? The same guy who did that at age 32? That was also when Grabo was a rookie, the same year where Grabo managed 48 points in 78 games(50 point pace). Keep reaching man, it makes you look real good.

The Blue Devil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 11:01 AM
  #130
The Blue Devil
Registered User
 
The Blue Devil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,527
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Grabovski has only played well with 2 wingers, Macarthur and Kulemin, more so Kulemin, thus it is an excellent argument. Has Grabovoski ever played well with other wingers, former 40 goal man Jason Blake just to name one?
He actually played very well with Hagman on his wing, he actually made Hagman look better than he was.

The Blue Devil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 11:23 AM
  #131
Pyrophorus
Registered User
 
Pyrophorus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Eastern GTA
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,731
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Pyrophorus Send a message via Yahoo to Pyrophorus Send a message via Skype™ to Pyrophorus
On a team that bled goals under Wilson, you will see no defensive stalwarts.

When hockey resumes, I think you will.

Pyrophorus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 11:28 AM
  #132
Noob616
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,345
vCash: 500
Habs fan who voted yes. Are you likely to win with him as your #1 C? Doubtful. Can you win with him as your #2 C? Absolutely. I think the problem is that there's typical HFBoards pigeonholing going on here. Is Grabovski a "top 6" forward, or is he only top 6 because the Leafs suck? I hate that logic, because you could say that Toews isn't a top 6 center because he'd be a 3rd line center in Pittsburgh. Say for example that Malkin gets injured, and the Penguins trade picks and prospects for Grabovski at the deadline. Are we supposed to believe that the Penguins are somehow no longer a contender because they have Grabovski as a 2nd line center (assume Fleury isn't a joke)? Would Philadelphia be a contender with a 1-2 punch of Giroux-Grabovski? Of course they would. Only on HFBoards is a guy who puts up 50+ points, and is good for 20+ goals considered not good enough to play 2nd line on a contender because he's not a "real" top 6.

Noob616 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 11:42 AM
  #133
Yashintangibles
6 Million Dollar Man
 
Yashintangibles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: At The Bank
Country: Yugoslavia
Posts: 3,540
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Quoting Corsi stats is hardly proof of anything. It's a highly debatable often unreliable stat. Don't even want to bother posting how many good, great players did not fare well in corsi.

What we do know, is Nik Kulemin is an excellent defensive winger, we do know prior to his injury last year Grabovoski was +7, once Kulemin got hurt, Grabovoski went the rest of the season -7. As a person that saw all Leafs games last season, I can assure you he was much less effective when Kulemin went down.

Again to quote one of the posters here, if he was the shutdown Center of the Leafs last year, what does it say that the Leafs were the second worst defensive team in the NHL last year. I don't know how a team can have an effective shut down line with the 29th worst GA in the league.
Corsi don't prove anything but right after you're using +/- to make your point... All right. It's not only his Corsi, all of Grabovski advanced stats are blatantly saying he's a good center. But we could play this little game for ever because you don't want to acknowledge that obviously. And As if watching all the Leafs games was meaning something with someone unfairly trying to blame one player for a defensive mess.

There's obviously something wrong here that goes deeper than just Grabovski. I'm not a leafs fan and I don't want anything to do with those flamewar between the different Canadian fanbase.

Yashintangibles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 11:55 AM
  #134
The Podium
Formerly chrisx101
 
The Podium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,282
vCash: 657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yashintangibles View Post
Corsi don't prove anything but right after you're using +/- to make your point... All right. It's not only his Corsi, all of Grabovski advanced stats are blatantly saying he's a good center. But we could play this little game for ever because you don't want to acknowledge that obviously. And As if watching all the Leafs games was meaning something with someone unfairly trying to blame one player for a defensive mess.

There's obviously something wrong here that goes deeper than just Grabovski. I'm not a leafs fan and I don't want anything to do with those flamewar between the different Canadian fanbase.
I find it hilarious that even a rivial fan is trying to convince this guy yet he so hung up on his argument that there is no proving otherwise.

The Podium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 11:57 AM
  #135
Beleafer4
Registered User
 
Beleafer4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,672
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Grabovski has only played well with 2 wingers, Macarthur and Kulemin, more so Kulemin, thus it is an excellent argument. Has Grabovoski ever played well with other wingers, former 40 goal man Jason Blake just to name one?
Bringing up blake just makes you look like you're reaching. Everybody knows just the type of player blake is/was. Putting 40g in front of his name isnt gonna change anything. Its like saying 50 goal jonathon cheechoo.

And fyi grabovski also looked good with kadri and lupul when they played together. Just because he doesnt have chemistry with kessel doesnt mean he doesnt have chemistry with anyone.

Beleafer4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 12:18 PM
  #136
MastuhNinks
Registered User
 
MastuhNinks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Iron Throne
Posts: 4,287
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
There was a recent poll here between Krejci and Grabovski, it wasn't close.
That doesn't mean that Krejci is the far superior player, it means that more people thought he was better. Whether or not that difference is marginal or massive cannot be determined by just looking at the votes of the poll.

MastuhNinks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 01:18 PM
  #137
Interactif
Registered User
 
Interactif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,710
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yashintangibles View Post
Corsi don't prove anything but right after you're using +/- to make your point... All right. It's not only his Corsi, all of Grabovski advanced stats are blatantly saying he's a good center. But we could play this little game for ever because you don't want to acknowledge that obviously. And As if watching all the Leafs games was meaning something with someone unfairly trying to blame one player for a defensive mess.

There's obviously something wrong here that goes deeper than just Grabovski. I'm not a leafs fan and I don't want anything to do with those flamewar between the different Canadian fanbase.
Full disclosure, I am a Big Leafs fan, have been for over 30 years.

I'm not interested in a flame war either, look at my posts, they are not confrontational or personal to the other posters.

Reason why I came to the main board is I could get away from the childish Homer posts on the Leafs board. They are evidenced here.

I am a Leafs fan but I can also be objective. If the Leafs stink, I will say they stink. When they are unfairly critiqued as Kessel was last year at the start of the year by posters saying he wouldn't be able to keep his pace, I defended him.

One thing I am absolutely not, is a Homer with darkened glasses. I can objectively critique a Leaf as well as praise one.

Leafs fans have somewhat a rep for being Homers, I know I post on their board. I am here to show we can also be objective fans.

Like it or not for some, I will call it like I see them. In the end I think posters here are more likely to listen to my opinion, because I can be objective, rather than the stereotypical fan that see's things only through Blue and White.

Interactif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 01:25 PM
  #138
The Podium
Formerly chrisx101
 
The Podium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,282
vCash: 657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Full disclosure, I am a Big Leafs fan, have been for over 30 years.

I'm not interested in a flame war either, look at my posts, they are not confrontational or personal to the other posters.

Reason why I came to the main board is I could get away from the childish Homer posts on the Leafs board. They are evidenced here.

I am a Leafs fan but I can also be objective. If the Leafs stink, I will say they stink. When they are unfairly critiqued as Kessel was last year at the start of the year by posters saying he wouldn't be able to keep his pace, I defended him.

One thing I am absolutely not, is a Homer with darkened glasses. I can objectively critique a Leaf as well as praise one.

Leafs fans have somewhat a rep for being Homers, I know I post on their board. I am here to show we can also be objective fans.

Like it or not for some, I will call it like I see them. In the end I think posters here are more likely to listen to my opinion, because I can be objective, rather than the stereotypical fan that see's things only through Blue and White.
There is a difference between a knowledgeable fan and someone who has a vendetta against a player. Everything suggests Grabovski is exactly what most leafs believe he is, there is statistical evidence that suggests he is a strong defensive two-way forward that would be a suitable player on the 2nd line of a contender. On top of the clearly visible statistical evidence, it is popular opinion amongst all fan bases, especially rivals, that suggest we are in fact justified in our belief. Every point you made has been biased and opinion based, and every claim has been a visual in your mind and skewed statistics rather than facts.

The Podium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 01:39 PM
  #139
pdd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
Ah, the eva unit zero school of debate, where every argument is 'nope' and you never have to bother trying to justify any of your reasoning. I'd point out that Grabovski fairs better defensively than most of the mentioned centers and is roughly on par offensively or better than alternatives at #2 center, but I know you and I know that you'll just say my stats are wrong and you are right. I sure love these shouting contests!
Yeah, Grabo is so much better defensively than Hanzal, Stepan, Laich, Zajac/Elias, Krejci, Fisher/Legwand.

And Hanzal's the only one of those he has outproduced offensively. Which is unsurprising, given a) Eastern conference, b) much better forwards in Toronto than Phoenix, c) Hanzal's a defense-first player while Grabo's an offense-first player who's decent defensively.

On a contender, Grabo wouldn't be a 2C. He'd be a 3C on a third scoring line, much like Filppula in 2008 and 2009, or he'd be shifted to wing with a better center, like Carter in 2012 and Franzen in 2008.

pdd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 01:40 PM
  #140
The Head Crusher
Moderator
 
The Head Crusher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,852
vCash: 18821
Send a message via MSN to The Head Crusher
Please refrain from posting personal insults against other members. This is a neutral forum with fans from many different teams with many different opinions, there is bound to be something posted that you do not agree with. When that happens remember to attack the post, not the poster.

__________________
The Head Crusher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 01:48 PM
  #141
pdd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
No, that is not the reason that Grabovski is good defensively. That is the result of him being good defensively.
The result of him being good defensively is the Leafs being near-last in GA? Who on the Leafs would have been a better pick for the shut-down line? If nobody, how exactly does that speak well of Grabovski's defense as opposed to poorly of the team?

Quote:
Brett Lebda was anything but solid
You DO know I'm a Wings fan, right?

Quote:
and Reimer was anything but solid last year as well, because he was injured. Not sure what you're getting at.
Should be obvious; Grabovski being on the shutdown line isn't, in and of itself, proof of defensive skill any more than "better defensively than Bozak/Crabb/etc." which is like picking whether you rather eat five turds or a bucket of dirt.

Quote:
And I'm not sure what Stajan has to do with anything anyway.
Stajan became part of the discussion as he previously held Grabo's role as Toronto's best center.

pdd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 01:57 PM
  #142
The Podium
Formerly chrisx101
 
The Podium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,282
vCash: 657
Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Yeah, Grabo is so much better defensively than Hanzal, Stepan, Laich, Zajac/Elias, Krejci, Fisher/Legwand.

And Hanzal's the only one of those he has outproduced offensively. Which is unsurprising, given a) Eastern conference, b) much better forwards in Toronto than Phoenix, c) Hanzal's a defense-first player while Grabo's an offense-first player who's decent defensively.

On a contender, Grabo wouldn't be a 2C. He'd be a 3C on a third scoring line, much like Filppula in 2008 and 2009, or he'd be shifted to wing with a better center, like Carter in 2012 and Franzen in 2008.
Refer to the post below for how well Grabovski is defensively....

He also out produced Stepan, Laich, Zajac, and legwand in PPG in each of the last 2 seasons, Fisher in one of the two

What were you saying exactly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
Grabovski isn't flashy defensively, the way Datsyuk is... Nor will he amaze you with bullheadedness and physical effort/domination the way Kesler is... but he's one of the best 2-way centers in the league.

Overpaying Mikhail Grabovski


Why Grabovski is great


Zone Adjusted Corsi for Leafs Forwards


A Meaningful Gulf in the Quality of Centremen

The Podium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 02:33 PM
  #143
pdd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
Refer to the post below for how well Grabovski is defensively....

He also out produced Stepan, Laich, Zajac, and legwand in PPG in each of the last 2 seasons, Fisher in one of the two

What were you saying exactly?
True, I guess Laich falls into the category, I am not full awake. As for Zajac, he played 15 games last year. He had a 44 point year and two 60+ years before last year and had a solid playoff last season. Grabo doesn't touch that.

Stepan is slightly below, but comparable. Certainly as comparable to Grabo as Grabo is to the others. Also, Fisher was better PPG last year. He had a weak PPG in the year he was traded, but it was a very down year for him while it was Grabo's career-best. He did do slightly better than Legwand.

But again. Recently, slightly better for a top-sixer in the East when compared to a top-sixer in the West means "comparable" to "slightly worse" in terms of actual performance, given the offensive environments of the conferences.

You're trying to play the "recency" card with Grabovski because it improves his appearance against a guy like Zajac or Fisher who had a down year and/or an injured year. Generally, I like to use three to five year comparisons of players to get an idea of how good they "really" are, unless they are young prospects (=<22) or aged veterans (>=36). Except for Stepan (22), these are all guys in or approaching the primes of their careers, so there's no reason not to take a three-year or five-year sample. And Grabo doesn't turn out nearly as well as you think in any comparisons except Stepan, who as I noted above is in the prospect category.

In a year or two, Grabo perhaps is 2C level for a legit contender. Right now, he's just below that. That said, this does not mean he's not a top-six center. A contender needs to have a high-end 2C (preferably a second 1C) for a realistic shot at the Cup. Grabo might be that guy in the next five years. He might not. He certainly has the right kind of skills (solid offense, faceoff skills, good defense) that would make him potentially desirable in that role. I don't think he's good enough now, but he will be.

As mentioned before, he'd be a great fit for Chicago. His contract would make it terrible though.

pdd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 02:35 PM
  #144
The Blue Devil
Registered User
 
The Blue Devil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,527
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Full disclosure, I am a Big Leafs fan, have been for over 30 years.

I'm not interested in a flame war either, look at my posts, they are not confrontational or personal to the other posters.

Reason why I came to the main board is I could get away from the childish Homer posts on the Leafs board. They are evidenced here.
I am a Leafs fan but I can also be objective. If the Leafs stink, I will say they stink. When they are unfairly critiqued as Kessel was last year at the start of the year by posters saying he wouldn't be able to keep his pace, I defended him.

One thing I am absolutely not, is a Homer with darkened glasses. I can objectively critique a Leaf as well as praise one.

Leafs fans have somewhat a rep for being Homers, I know I post on their board. I am here to show we can also be objective fans.

Like it or not for some, I will call it like I see them. In the end I think posters here are more likely to listen to my opinion, because I can be objective, rather than the stereotypical fan that see's things only through Blue and White.
Oh really? That's why more than just Leafs fans are stating the same things about Grabo?

Just an FYI, every fanbase has "homers", it's not just ours.

Also blaming one player for the failure of an entire team is not being objective, it's slander!

Edit: I love how you completely avoided his other argument.

The Blue Devil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 02:55 PM
  #145
The Podium
Formerly chrisx101
 
The Podium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,282
vCash: 657
Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
True, I guess Laich falls into the category, I am not full awake. As for Zajac, he played 15 games last year. He had a 44 point year and two 60+ years before last year and had a solid playoff last season. Grabo doesn't touch that.

Stepan is slightly below, but comparable. Certainly as comparable to Grabo as Grabo is to the others. Also, Fisher was better PPG last year. He had a weak PPG in the year he was traded, but it was a very down year for him while it was Grabo's career-best. He did do slightly better than Legwand.

But again. Recently, slightly better for a top-sixer in the East when compared to a top-sixer in the West means "comparable" to "slightly worse" in terms of actual performance, given the offensive environments of the conferences.

You're trying to play the "recency" card with Grabovski because it improves his appearance against a guy like Zajac or Fisher who had a down year and/or an injured year. Generally, I like to use three to five year comparisons of players to get an idea of how good they "really" are, unless they are young prospects (=<22) or aged veterans (>=36). Except for Stepan (22), these are all guys in or approaching the primes of their careers, so there's no reason not to take a three-year or five-year sample. And Grabo doesn't turn out nearly as well as you think in any comparisons except Stepan, who as I noted above is in the prospect category.

In a year or two, Grabo perhaps is 2C level for a legit contender. Right now, he's just below that. That said, this does not mean he's not a top-six center. A contender needs to have a high-end 2C (preferably a second 1C) for a realistic shot at the Cup. Grabo might be that guy in the next five years. He might not. He certainly has the right kind of skills (solid offense, faceoff skills, good defense) that would make him potentially desirable in that role. I don't think he's good enough now, but he will be.

As mentioned before, he'd be a great fit for Chicago. His contract would make it terrible though.
Problem with Grabo is he only has 4 seasons, you go back 5 and you get a partial year, a rookie season, an injury plagued sophomore slumped season then you have him where he is now. Grabovski is a weird case because of how late he entered the leauge and how much hes improved since. He definitely has that game in him, I mean this season he was on pace to push 60 again however had 2 wingers with down years. If Grabovski is not in the same calibre as the players mentioned, then your underrating him.

The Podium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 02:55 PM
  #146
MastuhNinks
Registered User
 
MastuhNinks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Iron Throne
Posts: 4,287
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
You're trying to play the "recency" card with Grabovski because it improves his appearance against a guy like Zajac or Fisher who had a down year and/or an injured year.


What do you mean, 'recency' card, there is no card, it's completely reasonable to bring up player A outscoring player B in the past couple seasons. The most recent seasons are absolutely the most relevant, you easily discount Grabovski's last 2 great years, and yet at the same time you seem to put more stock in seasons 3-5 years ago. It is completely illogical, what, Zajac and Fisher are allowed to have fluctuating scoring but Grabovski can't? C'mon man, that's just silly, especially when you favour the guys trending down over the guy trending up.

But just to play your game, let's look at the scoring of these players over the past 4 years (which includes all of Grabovski's full seasons in the NHL).

Mikhail Grabovski:
292GP, 192P, 0.66 points per game

Travis Zajac:
261GP, 179P, 0.69 points per game

Mike Fisher:
311GP, 172P, 0.55 points per game

But yes, clearly Grabovski "doesn't touch Zajac", even though his points per game is very marginally lower over the past 4 years, and over the past two years it's much higher (0.52 points per game for Zajac, 0.70 points per game for Grabovski, and just for fun, 0.56 for Fisher).

MastuhNinks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2012, 12:00 PM
  #147
MastuhNinks
Registered User
 
MastuhNinks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Iron Throne
Posts: 4,287
vCash: 500
I'd like to see a response to this. It bothers me when somebody makes baseless claims, turns out to be wrong and then just disappears.

MastuhNinks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2012, 12:12 PM
  #148
HockeyGuruPitka
Registered User
 
HockeyGuruPitka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,032
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
I'd like to see a response to this. It bothers me when somebody makes baseless claims, turns out to be wrong and then just disappears.
You are right. HOWEVER, the leafs havnt made the playoffs nor been relevant in many years. Once the team makes the playoffs and becomes a legitimate contendor, people will start to give us a little respect. Until then they feel entitled to these baseless claims, and so be it.

HockeyGuruPitka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2012, 12:19 PM
  #149
MastuhNinks
Registered User
 
MastuhNinks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Iron Throne
Posts: 4,287
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
You are right. HOWEVER, the leafs havnt made the playoffs nor been relevant in many years. Once the team makes the playoffs and becomes a legitimate contendor, people will start to give us a little respect. Until then they feel entitled to these baseless claims, and so be it.
Toronto's placing in the standings is irrelevant to the thread really. The Tampa Bay Lightning had the 2nd best player in the league last season and they missed the playoffs, that doesn't make Stamkos any less of a player.

MastuhNinks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-15-2012, 01:29 PM
  #150
MastuhNinks
Registered User
 
MastuhNinks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Iron Throne
Posts: 4,287
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
Mikhail Grabovski:
292GP, 192P, 0.66 points per game

Travis Zajac:
261GP, 179P, 0.69 points per game

Mike Fisher:
311GP, 172P, 0.55 points per game
Patrik Berglund
310GP, 163P, 0.44 points per game

Matt Stajan
295GP, 161P, 0.55 points per game

Brooks Laich
324GP, 201P, 0.62 points per game

Kyle Turris
185GP, 75P, 0.40 points per game
Probably a little unfair, but hey, Interactif was the one who said it was a wash. Even if you want to just look at his good half-season in Ottawa (recency card! ), he had 0.59 points per game.

Matin Hanzal
280GP, 124P, 0.44 points per game

David Legwand
297GP, 174P, 0.59 points per game


So yeah, by your own criteria Grabovski is better than every one of these guys offensively except for Zajac, who he has thoroughly outplayed the past two years.

I would really love it for Interactif to come back in this thread and try to justify the nonsense he has been spewing.

MastuhNinks is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:01 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.