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NHL Lockout XXVI: 57 Hockey Channels (And Nothin' On)

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Old
12-11-2012, 11:31 AM
  #301
RangerBoy
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The players want a long-term CBA. Pierre LeBrun wrote it last week. An agent told Mark Spector that yesterday. Kevin Allen mentions it today

Quote:
CBA LENGTH

Overview: Although players support the NHLPA position, it sure seems like most players actually favor a long-term deal because they don't want to go through another lockout in their career. This is clearly the easiest place for players to give ground.
More from Allen

Quote:
INDIVIDUAL CONTRACT VARIANCE

Owners want a 5% variance limit year-to-year on multi-year and players have countered with a proposal that on deals seven years or longer, the lowest salary must be at least 25% of the highest salary. The players' plan would also allow the league to charge a cap hit on teams when players are fit to play and don't fulfill their contracts. In other words, if teams add low salary years on a contract just to lower the cap hit and a player doesn't play those years, the cap hit will be recalculated and the team will charged that amount.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...ssues/1760825/

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Old
12-11-2012, 11:31 AM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Mike Jones View Post
Very good. Haven't seen one of those in years...
I work in a college and one teacher in the department I work in still hasn't stopped using it... we almost lost a 10,000$ subsidy to restore the department's room because the old ******* didn't want to move his projector out of there and also didn't want to stop using VHS TAPES and didn't want us to remove the TV/VCR....

Eventually, he agreed to move the projector to his office, but he didn't budge on the TV , which was hanging from the ceiling of the room. During the summer, the issue took care of itself when the tray holding the TV and VCR broke and the thing went crashing down. "Accident". Then the room was restored and when he came back in August he had no choice but to switch to DVD and digital.

Still uses that dinosaur projector though. Even when every classroom in the college has the modern ones which plug into PCs...

True story, but heh, off topic.

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Old
12-11-2012, 11:39 AM
  #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
That doesn't work though. You can't go back and then address the caphits because it's over. For example, if the Devils spend to the cap this year and Kovalchuk decides to retire early, you can fix the cap then but the damage has already been done. It also doesn't stop longer deals from happening either.

Not a huge fan of the 5% variance either, but a 25% of the max year doesn't seem like an answer. Capping years at 7 for all deals should happen too instead of the 5/7 rule.

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Old
12-11-2012, 11:39 AM
  #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Interesting quote "The only criticism he delivers is that owners making "take-it-or-leave-it proposals ... doesn't work with professional athletes," so the opposite approach makes more sense"

Some other really interesting stuff year like Daly saying that if the players agree to the 5-year contract limits they'd be willing to budge on variance.

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Old
12-11-2012, 11:42 AM
  #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
Interesting quote "The only criticism he delivers is that owners making "take-it-or-leave-it proposals ... doesn't work with professional athletes," so the opposite approach makes more sense"

Some other really interesting stuff year like Daly saying that if the players agree to the 5-year contract limits they'd be willing to budge on variance.
Well, he did make that the hill they will die on.

The other 2 things he didn't say that.

So yeah, one hill they will die on, and two they will fight very hard to have for themselves, but won't lose their flag over.

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Old
12-11-2012, 11:48 AM
  #306
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https://twitter.com/cotsonika

Nick Cotsonika ‏@cotsonika
Lots of signs individual teams, players gearing up. Hopeful? Just in case? Educated guessing? Know something?

And what are those signs?

Nick Cotsonika ‏@cotsonika
Question is if NHL or NHLPA smell weakness because people smell a deal and screw this up. I smell opportunity.

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Old
12-11-2012, 11:54 AM
  #307
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Originally Posted by CHLLL Penguin View Post


Oh, man I hated those things in high school. They can go to hell with all the old photocopiers.

Friedman's 30 thoughts - as usual - makes for interesting reading. It would certainly be interesting to bring a dealmaker like Quinn in to see if he could help the sides come to an arrangement.

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Old
12-11-2012, 11:56 AM
  #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
https://twitter.com/cotsonika

Nick Cotsonika ‏@cotsonika
Lots of signs individual teams, players gearing up. Hopeful? Just in case? Educated guessing? Know something?

And what are those signs?

Nick Cotsonika ‏@cotsonika
Question is if NHL or NHLPA smell weakness because people smell a deal and screw this up. I smell opportunity.
i don't know about the teams - but there's started to be a steadier trickle of players returning Europe.

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Old
12-11-2012, 11:57 AM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoobs View Post
I'd like to know... What's the difference between a 10 year CBA with an out clause after 8 and an 8 year CBA?
The 8 year CBA had an out clause after 6 years.

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12-11-2012, 11:57 AM
  #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottkmlps View Post
"Look," he began, "the bottom line is, this is pretty simple: Our owners went in last week, tried to cut to the chase, threw their cards on table, said, 'We're willing to give xyz, but here's what we need: a, b and c."

"The union decided to come back and didn't hit any of a, b or c. They didn't hit on CBA term, the owners' term limits on contracts, or the variables. And they entirely punted the transition rules on buy-outs and escrow."

Is the PA really that clueless?
Every time the NHL has said "no way this is the best we can do, nothing will change, these are the major issues we won't budge on" they have then budged on them later. I wouldn't say that the PA is "clueless", they've just seen the NHL do this before and weren't falling over themselves to accept the deal

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Old
12-11-2012, 12:02 PM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CerebralGenesis View Post
That doesn't work though. You can't go back and then address the caphits because it's over. For example, if the Devils spend to the cap this year and Kovalchuk decides to retire early, you can fix the cap then but the damage has already been done. It also doesn't stop longer deals from happening either.

Not a huge fan of the 5% variance either, but a 25% of the max year doesn't seem like an answer. Capping years at 7 for all deals should happen too instead of the 5/7 rule.
Elliotte Friedman wrote about what the PA proposed in November

Quote:
So, let's assume you're a GM and sign a player to a 10-year, $55-million deal. The breakdown is easy: $10 million in year one, down to $1 million in year 10. The cap hit is $5.5 million each year. So, in year one, your benefit is $4.5 million, in year two it's $3.5 million, year three is $2.5 million, four is $1.5 million, five is $500,000, six is minus-$500,000, seven is minus-$1.5 million and eight is minus-$2.5 million.

Then your guy retires. Add all of those up and you're plus-$8 million overall when he quits. The team would then have a choice: it can take that $8 million cap-hit medicine over two years (four million per season) or four years ($2 million per season).
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...contracts.html

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Old
12-11-2012, 12:03 PM
  #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Every time the NHL has said "no way this is the best we can do, nothing will change, these are the major issues we won't budge on" they have then budged on them later. I wouldn't say that the PA is "clueless", they've just seen the NHL do this before and weren't falling over themselves to accept the deal
there has been only a few things they wouldn't budge on, that was contract length (they sort of did, but they only added a stipulation to make it easier for current teams to keep there stars), and 50-50 split right now. those 2 things they technically haven't moved on.

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Old
12-11-2012, 12:04 PM
  #313
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Bruce Garrioch ‏@SunGarrioch
"To sell the whole PA under the bus, it's going to be difficult to stick up for a guy like that." Hartnell on @TEAM1200Ottawa on Harmrlik.

https://twitter.com/SunGarrioch/stat...45185770700800

First of all, I believe he either means "to sell the PA out..." or "to throw the PA under the bus...". Second of all, are players really this stupid? I thought the PA was all about "free speech"

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Old
12-11-2012, 12:05 PM
  #314
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Quote:
Tim Panaccio ‏@tpanotchCSN
as many have pointed out, the break over in Europe likely has ALOT to do w/guys coming back now
https://twitter.com/tpanotchCSN/stat...44924893401091

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Old
12-11-2012, 12:09 PM
  #315
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Anyone ever mention a franchise tag like system? Specific to the NHL.

Take the Devils for example. The owner's current desires are in place and it's 5% varations, 5 year term limits...

BUT

Each team gets one player they can sign for unlimited years, unlimited variation, bonuses... and the old CBA rules apply. Cap number is the average salary... so as long as Kovalchuk is on the Devils, he's the franchise player and all other contracts fall under the new CBA rules.

Basically the Pens can reward Crosby, Caps and Ovy, Bolts and Stamkos, and so on. Basically this lets teams reward their best/franchise player and not have it hamper the rest of the roster.

If that doesn't work, then the cap really has to come up. You can't lower it to 60m when a team like Tampa needs to sign 5 guys and has 3mil in space to do it. Other teams are way over the 60 mark.

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Old
12-11-2012, 12:10 PM
  #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UsernameWasTaken View Post
Bruce Garrioch ‏@SunGarrioch
"To sell the whole PA under the bus, it's going to be difficult to stick up for a guy like that." Hartnell on @TEAM1200Ottawa on Harmrlik.

https://twitter.com/SunGarrioch/stat...45185770700800

First of all, I believe he either means "to sell the PA out..." or "to throw the PA under the bus...". Second of all, are players really this stupid? I thought the PA was all about "free speech"
Well, on the positive side at least Hamrlik doesn't face a fine of up to $1 million for going against the party line.

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Old
12-11-2012, 12:12 PM
  #317
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Bruce Garrioch ‏@SunGarrioch
"I can't wait to see what his teammates do when guys go after him." Philly's Scott Hartnell on @TEAM1200Ottawa on Roman Hamrlik. #NHL #NHLPA

https://twitter.com/SunGarrioch/stat...43587791220737


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Old
12-11-2012, 12:12 PM
  #318
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Bruce Garrioch ‏@SunGarrioch
"I can't wait to see what his teammates do when guys go after him." Philly's Scott Hartnell on @TEAM1200Ottawa on Roman Hamrlik. #NHL #NHLPA


Last edited by TMI: 12-11-2012 at 12:59 PM. Reason: no one cares
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Old
12-11-2012, 12:12 PM
  #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
Anyone ever mention a franchise tag like system? Specific to the NHL.

Take the Devils for example. The owner's current desires are in place and it's 5% varations, 5 year term limits...

BUT

Each team gets one player they can sign for unlimited years, unlimited variation, bonuses... and the old CBA rules apply. Cap number is the average salary... so as long as Kovalchuk is on the Devils, he's the franchise player and all other contracts fall under the new CBA rules.

Basically the Pens can reward Crosby, Caps and Ovy, Bolts and Stamkos, and so on. Basically this lets teams reward their best/franchise player and not have it hamper the rest of the roster.

If that doesn't work, then the cap really has to come up. You can't lower it to 60m when a team like Tampa needs to sign 5 guys and has 3mil in space to do it. Other teams are way over the 60 mark.
For all intents and purposes, this also makes this person untradeable, right? What about if they're injured? For a year, for two years, etc. like Ricky DP?

Too many what-ifs. A great idea, but just not really feasible.

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12-11-2012, 12:13 PM
  #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UsernameWasTaken View Post
Bruce Garrioch ‏@SunGarrioch
"To sell the whole PA under the bus, it's going to be difficult to stick up for a guy like that." Hartnell on @TEAM1200Ottawa on Harmrlik.

https://twitter.com/SunGarrioch/stat...45185770700800

First of all, I believe he either means "to sell the PA out..." or "to throw the PA under the bus...". Second of all, are players really this stupid? I thought the PA was all about "free speech"
they do believe in every one being informed and having a say in the nhlpa. that is of course till you start going against the fehrs brainwashing tatics.

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12-11-2012, 12:13 PM
  #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
Anyone ever mention a franchise tag like system? Specific to the NHL.

Take the Devils for example. The owner's current desires are in place and it's 5% varations, 5 year term limits...

BUT

Each team gets one player they can sign for unlimited years, unlimited variation, bonuses... and the old CBA rules apply. Cap number is the average salary... so as long as Kovalchuk is on the Devils, he's the franchise player and all other contracts fall under the new CBA rules.

Basically the Pens can reward Crosby, Caps and Ovy, Bolts and Stamkos, and so on. Basically this lets teams reward their best/franchise player and not have it hamper the rest of the roster.

If that doesn't work, then the cap really has to come up. You can't lower it to 60m when a team like Tampa needs to sign 5 guys and has 3mil in space to do it. Other teams are way over the 60 mark.
What happens when you sign & trade your franchise player?

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Old
12-11-2012, 12:14 PM
  #322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Every time the NHL has said "no way this is the best we can do, nothing will change, these are the major issues we won't budge on" they have then budged on them later. I wouldn't say that the PA is "clueless", they've just seen the NHL do this before and weren't falling over themselves to accept the deal
Well maybe Donald has gone to the Well once to often....the players have lost a lot of money by not playing, sqeezing the Owners for a little more is pointless as the greater bad is happening.

another thing that bothers me and that is Sidney Crosby is heavily involved with NHLPA and his contract bothers me.
(avg
2011-12-- 9 million
2012-13-- 7 million
2013-14 to 2021-22 close to 11 million (avg) salery

is he battling and willing to give up this year due to his 7 million (this year) to gain with the higher salery years (next year and beyond at 11 million)?

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12-11-2012, 12:15 PM
  #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
Bruce Garrioch ‏@SunGarrioch
"I can't wait to see what his teammates do when guys go after him." Philly's Scott Hartnell on @TEAM1200Ottawa on Roman Hamrlik. #NHL #NHLPA
I like Hartnell as a person, (not as a player) but this interview is making him seem like a total ass.

Neuvirth supported Hamrlik. So that's one teammate.


Last edited by TMI: 12-11-2012 at 01:00 PM. Reason: quote
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12-11-2012, 12:15 PM
  #324
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Originally Posted by Cowbell232 View Post
For all intents and purposes, this also makes this person untradeable, right? What about if they're injured? For a year, for two years, etc. like Ricky DP?

Too many what-ifs. A great idea, but just not really feasible.
Yeah I know there would have to be a ton of fine print as far as trades go.... like what happens if the Devils want to trade Kovy... other teams want him but they already have a tagged player. I didn't think that far ahead. I just firmly believe that all these contract regulations will be great because it will help competitive balance, help smaller market teams, help CBA integrity with non CBA cheating deals.... but I also believe that teams should be able to show up at their star players' houses with a truck load of money to show loyalty and reward.

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12-11-2012, 12:15 PM
  #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
In regards to a CBA length, players want 8 with year 6 opt out while owners want 10 with year 8 opt out, why not compromise and make it a hard 8 years? Would that not be the best solution considering 8 years is mutual in both situations ?
It makes too much sense for them.

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