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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Ranking the teams top 6

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Old
12-14-2012, 02:19 PM
  #51
Lessy
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
Which they routinely lose.....
They've won 5 of the last 7 tournaments... The country is divided into 5 parts. That should end all arguments about which country has hockey supremacy. Not saying that that won't one day change or that in a single elimination tournament Canada is a lock to win...

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12-14-2012, 02:23 PM
  #52
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I'm an Oilers fan and at this point it isn't really close between RNH and Yakupov. RNH was near a PPG in the NHL last year as an 18-year-old. He's a first line centre in the best league in the world. He is head and shoulders above everyone in this tournament. I think Yakupov is the second best player in the tournament but he's a step below RNH and half a year younger which however miniscule it may sound does make a difference at this level. I'm sure the Islanders would love for Strome to be playing in the AHL but that isn't possible at his age so he's stuck being a man amongst boys in the OHL. I think Huberdeau is a much better player than Grigorenko at this point as well and there's also the 19-year-old factor as well.

I think the Russians are a very dangerous and talented team and if they can find chemistry look out. I also think that on paper in the lockout year it's Canada and then everyone else - people are going to be all over me for saying that but we'll see how it plays out.

Since 05 (anomaly) Canada has been easily the best team in this tournament. There have been close games and Canada obviously hasn't won gold every year but they've been the best since the last lockout without question. The medal count speaks for that. Every one of these years Canada has been missing multiple players and more than any other country to the best league in the world. This year would have been no different.

I don't want to be the cocky Canadian guy and truth be told in a single elimination tournament anything can happen. Let's just say there's a reason why Canada has to send provincial entries into tournaments not affected by the NHL.
Thanks for the input, I didn't remember the weird AHL - CHL rule.

I don't think the Yakupov RNH comparison is so clear cut. First of all, you haven't seen Yakupov play since last year. Nobody has seen them play in the same competition since two seasons ago. Yakupov is playing in the KHL which is a stronger league than the AHL and is very close to RNH's production.

It's true that RNH already played in the NHL last year and was one of the best players on his team. It doesn't disprove anything of Yakupov, however. It may very well be true that RNH is better because he played in the NHL last year already. But you don't know how much better RNH was in the first place and you don't know how much Yakupov has gained on him. You have no idea where these players stand in comparison to each other, is one player playing with the confidence of his life, is the other playing in a slump? Stating these kinds of comparisons as facts is silly imo.

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12-14-2012, 02:27 PM
  #53
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Thanks for the input, I didn't remember the weird AHL - CHL rule.

I don't think the Yakupov RNH comparison is so clear cut. First of all, you haven't seen Yakupov play since last year. Nobody has seen them play in the same competition since two seasons ago. Yakupov is playing in the KHL which is a stronger league than the AHL and is very close to RNH's production.

It's true that RNH already played in the NHL last year and was one of the best players on his team. It doesn't disprove anything of Yakupov, however. It may very well be true that RNH is better because he played in the NHL last year already. But you don't know how much better RNH was in the first place and you don't know how much Yakupov has gained on him. You have no idea where these players stand in comparison to each other, is one player playing with the confidence of his life, is the other playing in a slump? Stating these kinds of comparisons as facts is silly imo.
As an Oilers fan let's just say I would love it if you were right. And certainly in such a short tournament we could see someone in a "slump" or a player playing the best hockey of his life. I just think RNH is a step ahead right now, not to mention a full year of development (in the best league in the world).

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12-14-2012, 02:46 PM
  #54
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Man, a lot of countries have really strong forwards this year. As stacked as Canada are, it's going to be a tough/competitive tournament, tonnes of talent from many countries.

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12-15-2012, 09:46 AM
  #55
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Finland has top 9 instead of top 6 this year.

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Old
12-16-2012, 12:17 AM
  #56
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As an Oilers fan let's just say I would love it if you were right. And certainly in such a short tournament we could see someone in a "slump" or a player playing the best hockey of his life. I just think RNH is a step ahead right now, not to mention a full year of development (in the best league in the world).

The RNH vs. Yakupov debate is ridiculous. Anyone who thinks Yakupov is more developed and a better talent than RNH does not do enough research. Go read scouting reports and prospect reports from professionals who scout for a living. RNH's reports will all be stronger than Nail's. Mark it right now RNH will be the best Oiler hands down over the next 10 years. Better than Hall, Eberle and Yakupov. Look what he did as a 18 year old in the best men's league in the world. Enough said.

And stop pumping up the KHL and letting us know it's a mens league. So is the Swedish and Finish elite leagues. So is the AHL. We get it, they play against men. But if the league was that "elite' they wouldn't let 16/17 year olds play in it.

I bet the top AHL team would beat the best KHL team.

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12-16-2012, 12:30 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by hollywood99 View Post
The RNH vs. Yakupov debate is ridiculous. Anyone who thinks Yakupov is more developed and a better talent than RNH does not do enough research. Go read scouting reports and prospect reports from professionals who scout for a living. RNH's reports will all be stronger than Nail's. Mark it right now RNH will be the best Oiler hands down over the next 10 years. Better than Hall, Eberle and Yakupov. Look what he did as a 18 year old in the best men's league in the world. Enough said.

And stop pumping up the KHL and letting us know it's a mens league. So is the Swedish and Finish elite leagues. So is the AHL. We get it, they play against men. But if the league was that "elite' they wouldn't let 16/17 year olds play in it.

I bet the top AHL team would beat the best KHL team.
What is the best KHL team in your opinion? and why? What do you think about the youth roster rules in the league?

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12-16-2012, 12:44 AM
  #58
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I bet the top AHL team would beat the best KHL team.

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12-16-2012, 12:52 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by hollywood99 View Post
I bet the top AHL team would beat the best KHL team.
Lol!!! If it wasn't a joke, please don't bet all your money. But I think it was a joke, it's a lot of fun, thank you.

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12-16-2012, 12:55 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
What is the best KHL team in your opinion? and why? What do you think about the youth roster rules in the league?
Well I should clarify I mean non-lockout rosters. So with that I would say Ak Bars Kazan probably is the strongest KHL team. And keeping the no lockout theme I would say Syracuse is the strongest AHL team again this year.

As far as the age I believe the K allows 17 year olds, but my comment about 16 year olds was based on the other European elite leagues. I don't think the highest level leagues should have spots on their teams for 16 and 17 year olds. To me that indicates a lack of overall talent and depth that you have to use players that young. I will say that I do applaud the KHL for developing a junior league that I think will strengthen their overall talent/depth.

But the argument wasn't about young players it was about men vs men and I'll give Syracuse the nod over Ak Bars.

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12-16-2012, 01:06 AM
  #61
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But the argument wasn't about young players it was about men vs men and I'll give Syracuse the nod over Ak Bars.
I applaud to the arrogance of NA fans. Of course it's fun to believe that your school team will beat the best of your enemy teams. But it's just a dream that happens only in hollywood movies. Please wake up and try the best of VHL teams and you will come to reality.

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12-16-2012, 01:11 AM
  #62
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I applaud to the arrogance of NA fans. Of course it's fun to believe that your school team will beat the best of your enemy teams. But it's just a dream that happens only in hollywood movies. Please wake up and try the best of VHL teams and you will come to reality.

Check the Syracuse roster dude. This isn't about NA bias. The Syracuse roster is multi-national including some Russians.

There is no question the NHL is the best league in the world. Not debatable. And where do most of the best NHL prospects play? The AHL. So most of the fringe NHL players in the world play in the AHL. That's hardly a "school team"

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12-16-2012, 01:23 AM
  #63
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Check the Syracuse roster dude. This isn't about NA bias. The Syracuse roster is multi-national including some Russians.

There is no question the NHL is the best league in the world. Not debatable. And where do most of the best NHL prospects play? The AHL. So most of the fringe NHL players in the world play in the AHL. That's hardly a "school team"
I'm sorry how old are you? I'm again sorry I don't know Syracuse team. I just know how many super NHLers like E.Kane Rinne and many others (Alex Kovalev, LeCavalier, Heatley etc) during previous lockout in 2004 played in the russian league.
Please say it to Malkin, who said that "every game in the KHL is like playoff". Even for him it's not easy to play there. You haven't seen your NHL stars in the KHL.

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12-16-2012, 01:30 AM
  #64
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I'm sorry how old are you? I'm again sorry I don't know Syracuse team. I just know how many super NHLers like E.Kane Rinne and many others (Alex Kovalev, LeCavalier, Heatley etc) during previous lockout in 2004 played in the russian league.
Please say it to Malkin, who said that "every game in the KHL is like playoff". Even for him it's not easy to play there. You haven't seen your NHL stars in the KHL.
I don't even know where you're going with this? How old am I?

But you don't know Syracuse which makes your half of this debate pretty silly. Granted I'm not a KHL expert either so I doubt I have a really well researched/backed up opinion either. But far more KHL players have given up on the AHL than NHL players have given up on the KHL so I don't know you want to go down that road.

We've gone way off topic and it's not fair to this thread. Feel free to DM me if you want to continue.

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12-16-2012, 01:39 AM
  #65
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I don't even know where you're going with this? How old am I?

But you don't know Syracuse which makes your half of this debate pretty silly. Granted I'm not a KHL expert either so I doubt I have a really well researched/backed up opinion either. But far more KHL players have given up on the AHL than NHL players have given up on the KHL so I don't know you want to go down that road.

We've gone way off topic and it's not fair to this thread. Feel free to DM me if you want to continue.
There is a contradiction in your sayings: you are not KHL expert (that makes your half of this debate silly too) then how do you know the strength of KHL teams?
And at the same time there are a lot of KHL players that succedeed in the NHL, but I don't know the former NHLer who wasn't brought up on european rinks and did light up the KHL. Name me just one.


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12-16-2012, 02:09 AM
  #66
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There is a contradiction in your sayings: you are not KHL expert (that makes your half of this debate silly too) then how do you know the strength of KHL teams?
And at the same time there are a lot of KHL players that succedeed in the NHL, but I don't know the former NHLer who wasn't brought up on european rinks and did light up the KHL. Name me just one.
Randy Robitaille. 16th in scoring. And technically he's more a former AHLer than NHL. The reason there isn't more is because they tough it out in the AHL and not run home cause the games are tough. Filatov.

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12-16-2012, 02:09 AM
  #67
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Although this debate is completely off topic, I will add my 2 cents. When I was in America I attended over 30 AHL games, I have also attended over 50 KHL games and I can confidently say that the KHL is a higher level of Hockey than the AHL. The top KHL sides are at a far higher level than the AHL sides. Overall from top to bottom the difference between the leagues is not huge but the KHL is higher quality hockey.

Oh and RNH > Yakupov.

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12-16-2012, 02:11 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by hollywood99 View Post
Check the Syracuse roster dude. This isn't about NA bias. The Syracuse roster is multi-national including some Russians.

There is no question the NHL is the best league in the world. Not debatable. And where do most of the best NHL prospects play? The AHL. So most of the fringe NHL players in the world play in the AHL. That's hardly a "school team"
Ehhhh most of the good prospects are in the CHL. The ones who are in the AHL for too long generally don't make it. Some do, but it's not common.

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12-16-2012, 02:24 AM
  #69
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Robitaille. Yes, in this season I really enjoy Metallurg Nvk. It's the most poor team in the KHL. There was a doubt that the team will take part in the KHL this season. They signed only veterans or young MHLers because of lack of money, it was a chance for them. Despite of financial woes team fights as hard as they can. Nobody believed that this team will be in the middle of the table of the regular season. And I do have respect him more than Kane, Rinne. He's really fighting on ice never gives up. But certainly it's exaggeration to say that he shocks the KHL. Filatov also is not on highlights, sometimes I even forget that he changed the team. Although he is former european player.


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12-16-2012, 02:39 AM
  #70
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Ehhhh most of the good prospects are in the CHL. The ones who are in the AHL for too long generally don't make it. Some do, but it's not common.
23 of HF's top 50 are currently in the AHL. That was my point. And a whole bunch more in the top 50 will spend a year or two in the A. And ya there's some lifers but I imagine there are a lot of KHL no chance at NHL lifers too

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12-16-2012, 02:41 AM
  #71
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Although this debate is completely off topic, I will add my 2 cents. When I was in America I attended over 30 AHL games, I have also attended over 50 KHL games and I can confidently say that the KHL is a higher level of Hockey than the AHL. The top KHL sides are at a far higher level than the AHL sides. Overall from top to bottom the difference between the leagues is not huge but the KHL is higher quality hockey.

Oh and RNH > Yakupov.
Will 80 games of proof I'll concede to you. At least we agree about RNH > Yaki. Which is where this whole thing started I think.

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12-16-2012, 02:41 AM
  #72
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23 of HF's top 50 are currently in the AHL. That was my point. And a whole bunch more in the top 50 will spend a year or two in the A. And ya there's some lifers but I imagine there are a lot of KHL no chance at NHL lifers too
I think you obviously realize this year is atypical

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12-16-2012, 02:45 AM
  #73
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The top AHL team beating the top KHL team is a joke. The top 90 scorers in the NHL last year played an average of half a season in the AHL over their entire career. The AHL is fringe players, has beens, never wases and 1-3 19-23 year olds learning the ropes to transition to the NHL, but not good enough yet. KHL actually has many players, especially nationals, that are at least good enough to be second liners on NHL teams.

And yes, RNH is better than Yakupov now and will be better than Eberle and Hall.

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12-16-2012, 02:47 AM
  #74
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I think you obviously realize this year is atypical
Maybe for the highest level of prospects yes. But the AHL still carries a very talented group of players around in non-lockout years. We both agree the 19 year olds jumping straight to NHL is rare right?

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12-16-2012, 02:48 AM
  #75
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Canada
Russia
USA
Sweden
Finland
Czech Republic

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