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Ranking the teams top 6

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12-16-2012, 02:50 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by hollywood99 View Post
Maybe for the highest level of prospects yes. But the AHL still carries a very talented group of players around in non-lockout years. We both agree the 19 year olds jumping straight to NHL is rare right?
True, and those that don't make the jump are not yet talented enough or seasoned enough or strong enough to crack the roster. Just because 5 years down the road they might be a top line player doesn't mean they are anything now. AHL is not as good as KHL.

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12-16-2012, 02:51 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Nash View Post
The top AHL team beating the top KHL team is a joke. The top 90 scorers in the NHL last year played an average of half a season in the AHL over their entire career. The AHL is fringe players, has beens, never wases and 1-3 19-23 year olds learning the ropes to transition to the NHL, but not good enough yet. KHL actually has many players, especially nationals, that are at least good enough to be second liners on NHL teams.

And yes, RNH is better than Yakupov now and will be better than Eberle and Hall.
I think the 2nd liner comment is a joke right?

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12-16-2012, 02:55 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Lessy View Post
Rank Canada's top six forwards and Russia's top six forwards, put them side by side and Canada will be > on every one of them. Canada isn't unbeatable, especially in a one game tournament but on paper they are head and shoulders above everyone else. All it takes is a lights out goaltending performance to eliminate them though - certainly not a lock for gold. Also in the summer Canada didn't have that guy who is by far the best player in the tournament/a first line centre in the NHL...
What excuses will we have if Canada doesn't win gold? Every year Canada enters the tournament #1, but as we all know doesn't mean very much. But when it come to hockey I must admit that, we as Canadians are #1 in the department of cockiness.

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12-16-2012, 02:56 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Nash View Post
True, and those that don't make the jump are not yet talented enough or seasoned enough or strong enough to crack the roster. Just because 5 years down the road they might be a top line player doesn't mean they are anything now. AHL is not as good as KHL.
I guess I feel the same about the guys on KHL teams. 1-3 talented guys who could play in the NHL and a bunch of older never-were's.

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12-16-2012, 02:57 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by hollywood99 View Post
Maybe for the highest level of prospects yes. But the AHL still carries a very talented group of players around in non-lockout years. We both agree the 19 year olds jumping straight to NHL is rare right?
For top talent very few of them spend much time in the AHL. Defenseman and goalies are a slight exceptions, but the AHL does not house the top prospects for the NHL.

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12-16-2012, 02:58 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by albator71 View Post
What excuses will we have if Canada doesn't win gold? Every year Canada enters the tournament #1, but as we all know doesn't mean very much. But when it come to hockey I must admit that, we as Canadians are #1 in the department of cockiness.
You are too nice everywhere else in life. You have to be kind douchey at at least one thing in the world.

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12-16-2012, 03:00 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
For top talent very few of them spend much time in the AHL. Defenseman and goalies are a slight exceptions, but the AHL does not house the top prospects for the NHL.
I just said this, yes. Highest or top maybe not, but overall still very good level of prospects.

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12-16-2012, 03:04 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
You are too nice everywhere else in life. You have to be kind douchey at at least one thing in the world.
I must agree with you, but as you well know hockey is about the only team sport where Canada is any good. You don't see any Canadians being cocky at football(soccer).

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12-16-2012, 03:07 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by hollywood99 View Post
Well I should clarify I mean non-lockout rosters. So with that I would say Ak Bars Kazan probably is the strongest KHL team. And keeping the no lockout theme I would say Syracuse is the strongest AHL team again this year.

As far as the age I believe the K allows 17 year olds, but my comment about 16 year olds was based on the other European elite leagues. I don't think the highest level leagues should have spots on their teams for 16 and 17 year olds. To me that indicates a lack of overall talent and depth that you have to use players that young. I will say that I do applaud the KHL for developing a junior league that I think will strengthen their overall talent/depth.

But the argument wasn't about young players it was about men vs men and I'll give Syracuse the nod over Ak Bars.
you just don't know what you're talking about

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12-16-2012, 03:12 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
you just don't know what you're talking about
Thanks for enlightening me

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12-16-2012, 03:12 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by hollywood99 View Post
I think the 2nd liner comment is a joke right?
Just off the top of my head, you really don't think that Mirozov, Mozyakin, Kuznetsov or any number of national team players could be on at least a second line in the NHL? Are you really that daft? The NHL has the best talent, but there is still great talent out there and especially in the KHL where they can afford to pay very well.

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12-16-2012, 03:14 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by hollywood99 View Post
I guess I feel the same about the guys on KHL teams. 1-3 talented guys who could play in the NHL and a bunch of older never-were's.
Ask hockey experts out there which league is better. I doubt Bobby M would put the AHL above the KHL.

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12-16-2012, 03:16 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by hollywood99 View Post
I just said this, yes. Highest or top maybe not, but overall still very good level of prospects.
Depends on your definition of good. Lets look at the 2008 draft since they are really starting to mature.

Stamkos Doughty Bogosian? 0

Pietrangelo? 1

Filatov. 80

Schenn. 0


Wilson. 40

Boedkker 100

Bailey. 11

Hodgson 52

Myers. 0

Beach 96

Teubert 102

Karlsson 12

Boychuk. 104

Gardiner. 14

Del Zotto. 11

Sbisa 8

Eberle 20

Carlson 48

Ennis 69

Tikhonov 92


As you can see very few guys in top six roles played much more than a dozen games in the ahl. Ennis is the only one who came close to a full season.

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12-16-2012, 03:19 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Nash View Post
Just off the top of my head, you really don't think that Mirozov, Mozyakin, Kuznetsov or any number of national team players could be on at least a second line in the NHL? Are you really that daft? The NHL has the best talent, but there is still great talent out there and especially in the KHL where they can afford to pay very well.
You said many. And no I don't think Mozyakin could cut it,too small and too one dimensional.

I've never argued there isn't great talent in the K. I'm talking a team game. Overall strength of a team. And I stand by the AHL comments.

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12-16-2012, 03:21 AM
  #90
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1. Canada
2. Russia
3. USA
4. Sweden
5. Finland

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12-16-2012, 03:23 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
Depends on your definition of good. Lets look at the 2008 draft since they are really starting to mature.

Stamkos Doughty Bogosian? 0

Pietrangelo? 1

Filatov. 80

Schenn. 0


Wilson. 40

Boedkker 100

Bailey. 11

Hodgson 52

Myers. 0

Beach 96

Teubert 102

Karlsson 12

Boychuk. 104

Gardiner. 14

Del Zotto. 11

Sbisa 8

Eberle 20

Carlson 48

Ennis 69

Tikhonov 92


As you can see very few guys in top six roles played much more than a dozen games in the ahl. Ennis is the only one who came close to a full season.
You're right, the AHL is crap.......

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12-16-2012, 03:25 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by albator71 View Post
I must agree with you, but as you well know hockey is about the only team sport where Canada is any good. You don't see any Canadians being cocky at football(soccer).
Don't forget Curling and Lacrosse. We are the king of niche sports! Lol.

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12-16-2012, 03:26 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Nash View Post
Ask hockey experts out there which league is better. I doubt Bobby M would put the AHL above the KHL.
I'd actually really be interested in an experts opinion, and you may be correct but it's not a slam dunk either way

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12-16-2012, 03:26 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by hollywood99 View Post
I just said this, yes. Highest or top maybe not, but overall still very good level of prospects.
Exactly. Prospects...not pros. The rest are journeymen. Seriously go back on hockeydb.com and look up a roster of a few AHL teams from 5 or more years ago. Tell me how many of those guys became NHL regulars, and specifically impact players in top 6 forwards or top 4 defensemen. Also keep in mind that when they played in the AHL, they were not even good enough to play on the fourth line in the NHL.

After doing that, remind me how this inferior talent is going to beat a KHL team with guys who have already played in the NHL or developed, stayed home and played for a team in their country. You do realize that the NHL basically only drafts the very elite out of Russia now since the lack of a transfer agreement. How many second liner Russians play in the NHL, let alone third or fourth line. Do you not think that maybe they produce all of those types of players. The fact is those lower tiered guys stay home for similar tax free money, not to mention late blooming star players.

If the NHL was so superior, Canada and USA would win every WHC and Olympics, yet somehow they don't. Yet you suggest an AHL team would beat a KHL team. Just silly.

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12-16-2012, 03:30 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by hollywood99 View Post
Thanks for enlightening me
you could enlighten yourself if you learn something about the KHL before make crazy assumptions like AHL vs KHL b s.

If you knew there are league regulations that ensure youngster spots on KHL team for the National Team development, you wouldn't come here posting garbage about team's overall talent levels (?!).

There is no way an AHL farm team could even remotely compete with Ak Bars having Russian NT players and World champions: Barulin (NT Goalie), Morozov , Zaripov, Petrov, Nikulin, Bodrov, Korneyev, Kapanen, Imonnen. Something tells you don't even know half of these guys. And this is not even the best KHL team, hasn't been for like 3 years.

I've seen lots of Marlies AHL hockey over the last few years. It's a selfish league where most players play for themselves to make it to the show. There are loads of goons looking a fight, a big check or anything to stand out. It's cutthroat hockey, but it's not skilled hockey. It can be fun to watch, but the skill level in AHL is really atrocious compared to KHL, especially when you get into the 2nd, 3rd and 4th lines.

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12-16-2012, 03:31 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Nash View Post
Exactly. Prospects...not pros. The rest are journeymen. Seriously go back on hockeydb.com and look up a roster of a few AHL teams from 5 or more years ago. Tell me how many of those guys became NHL regulars, and specifically impact players in top 6 forwards or top 4 defensemen. Also keep in mind that when they played in the AHL, they were not even good enough to play on the fourth line in the NHL.

After doing that, remind me how this inferior talent is going to beat a KHL team with guys who have already played in the NHL or developed, stayed home and played for a team in their country. You do realize that the NHL basically only drafts the very elite out of Russia now since the lack of a transfer agreement. How many second liner Russians play in the NHL, let alone third or fourth line. Do you not think that maybe they produce all of those types of players. The fact is those lower tiered guys stay home for similar tax free money, not to mention late blooming star players.

If the NHL was so superior, Canada and USA would win every WHC and Olympics, yet somehow they don't. Yet you suggest an AHL team would beat a KHL team. Just silly.
Fair points but explain to me why the majority of KHL leading scoters are NHL castoffs or guys who never made it (aka journeymen). Are they realty diff from the AHL guys who stay home?

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12-16-2012, 03:35 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
you could enlighten yourself if you learn something about the KHL before make crazy assumptions like AHL vs KHL b s.

If you knew there are league regulations that ensure youngster spots on KHL team for the National Team development, you wouldn't come here posting garbage about team's overall talent levels (?!).

There is no way an AHL farm team could even remotely compete with Ak Bars having Russian NT players and World champions: Barulin (NT Goalie), Morozov , Zaripov, Petrov, Nikulin, Bodrov, Korneyev, Kapanen, Imonnen. Something tells you don't even know half of these guys. And this is not even the best KHL team, hasn't been for like 3 years.

I've seen lots of Marlies AHL hockey over the last few years. It's a selfish league where most players play for themselves to make it to the show. There are loads of goons looking a fight, a big check or anything to stand out. It's cutthroat hockey, but it's not skilled hockey. It can be fun to watch, but the skill level in AHL is really atrocious compared to KHL, especially when you get into the 2nd, 3rd and 4th lines.
It's funny how you describe the AHL is how I would describe what I've seen in the K. Pretty much to a T. And yes I'm familiar with almost all those players thanks.

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12-16-2012, 03:37 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
you could enlighten yourself if you learn something about the KHL before make crazy assumptions like AHL vs KHL b s.

If you knew there are league regulations that ensure youngster spots on KHL team for the National Team development, you wouldn't come here posting garbage about team's overall talent levels (?!).

There is no way an AHL farm team could even remotely compete with Ak Bars having Russian NT players and World champions: Barulin (NT Goalie), Morozov , Zaripov, Petrov, Nikulin, Bodrov, Korneyev, Kapanen, Imonnen. Something tells you don't even know half of these guys. And this is not even the best KHL team, hasn't been for like 3 years.

I've seen lots of Marlies AHL hockey over the last few years. It's a selfish league where most players play for themselves to make it to the show. There are loads of goons looking a fight, a big check or anything to stand out. It's cutthroat hockey, but it's not skilled hockey. It can be fun to watch, but the skill level in AHL is really atrocious compared to KHL, especially when you get into the 2nd, 3rd and 4th lines.

Also skilled hockey doesn't always win, which furthers my whole team points. See LA Kings and Boston Bruins Stanley Cup banners.

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12-16-2012, 03:37 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by hollywood99 View Post
It's funny how you describe the AHL is how I would describe what I've seen in the K. Pretty much to a T. And yes I'm familiar with almost all those players thanks.
Ye, it just shows how far off you are about the KHL.

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12-16-2012, 03:40 AM
  #100
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Ye, it just shows how far off you are about the KHL.
Guess we watch different highlights.

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